No Internal Monologue

The one thing which I noticed between intuitive persons and sensing persons is the ability to jump between your libraries of knowledge, linking different world views together.
t's not useful in daily life but it gives you the ability to understand how the gears of the universe turn within a broader perspective.
The most powerful drug in that sense is the will to read, to discuss and to broaden your perspective on the world. And to find similar people who share the same will.
 
mintoots said:
How about you, Mr. self-absorbed? Haha
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Hey, @wolly.green said I was always there to help others!

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wolly.green said:
I don't think in words. I think in abstract patterns and connections.

I realize this is a "hot topic". Its talked about all the time on facebook and youtube. For years I've known that I am not a verbal thinker. But I did not realize how controversial this simple fact really is.

It's only recently that I've come across a whole world of people that can't fathom the idea of having thoughts without words. I had a conversation with my own sister recently that ended badly with her saying "well that's because you don't think". Its shocking to me that this is so controversial and that it could cause so much confusion...

Are you a verbal thinker? How difficult is it for you to understand that some people don't think in words? Is it annoying to you?
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@Maikl Jexocuha

I'm curious about your answer to this. But only if you have the time though. Take your time, please.


Ren said:
The question is: what do these thoughts look like?
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That is a good question.
:m123:
 
Ren said:
Wow, that is fascinating indeed. It is possible to have Aphantasia and still be a fully functional human being?

I'm just imagining it being possibly quite a debilitating condition.
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Actually he seemed to be a quite normal, intelligent, and an engaging person - he has a successful career as well.
It seems like it should have some serious issues for those with the condition, and I'm sure some do, but most of what I've found says otherwise, sometimes even to their benefit -
The condition does not seem to inhibit people's success in life, Keogh added. Among the study's participants were engineers, programmers and doctoral students. Still, aphantasia might affect them in some ways, she said.

The people in the study "say that they find remembering the past quite different to other people," Koegh said. "When we try to remember things from our past, most of us will find that it's like playing a movie in our mind, we can just relive that moment. For them, it's more like a list of things that have occurred."

Some of the people in the study also complained about difficulties recognizing faces and problems with spatial navigation.

"We are trying to find out exactly what they find easy to do and what they find difficult," Koegh said. She speculated that not being disturbed by visual flashbacks from the past might enable people with aphantasia to live more in the present moment. For example, experiencing too much visual imagery from the past can be not only distracting but even disturbing and is frequently experienced by people with post-traumatic stress disorder, she said.
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Skarekrow said:
Actually he seemed to be a quite normal, intelligent, and an engaging person - he has a successful career as well.
It seems like it should have some serious issues for those with the condition, and I'm sure some do, but most of what I've found says otherwise, sometimes even to their benefit -
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Wow, I see. The analogy of their memories with a "list of things that have occurred" makes a lot of sense.

It's like they can remember and even revisit their memories but not image them.

Maikl Jexocuha said:
Sometimes there is a voice in my head, but I don't identify with it. It's weird. But I talk to it, and answer back out loud.
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Interesting. I have a voice in my head too but it's definitely me, although in some ways it feels more like an 'alternate' me, if that makes any sense.

Maybe like a sounding board of sorts.
 
Maikl Jexocuha said:
Yeah think mostly in images, pictures, much like a movie in my head. There is also sound, music. Sometimes there is a voice in my head, but I don't identify with it. It's weird. But I talk to it, and answer back out loud.
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I asked because I noticed you used the profile page to voice out your thoughts. It was interesting because I could also actually relate.
 
Ren said:
Wow, I see. The analogy of their memories with a "list of things that have occurred" makes a lot of sense.

It's like they can remember and even revisit their memories but not image them.



Interesting. I have a voice in my head too but it's definitely me, although in some ways it feels more like an 'alternate' me, if that makes any sense.

Maybe like a sounding board of sorts.
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I found it very interesting as that article suggested, that there are those who are things like architects with the condition.
One would think that you would need some kind of mental imagery to even begin such a project?
Doing a quick google search for 'Aphantasia artists' and they exist as well...including the lead animator of The Little Mermaid!
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...y-animator-draws-a-blank-on-his-own-creations
What a different view of the world and even ways of thinking some must have.
I wonder how these "lists" come into being when remembered?
Hope you are good my friend!?
:<3white:

In some people, aphantasia not only leaves them without any visual imagery, but they have no sensory recall at all. Alan Kendle, an engineer and the author of Aphantasia: Experiences, Perceptions and Insights, says he cannot recreate any of his five senses in his mind. “I can’t hear anything in my head unless it comes through my ears. I’ve got no inner voice. It’s absolute silence in there.”
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Edit - ^^^ Kinda sounds rather nice!! lol
.
 
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Hmh, that is a very interesting topic. I think, I do have different modes of thinking. Like for example thinking in words, especially if I am processing in a way that means to prepare myself to transfer (some mode I have trouble explaining because it seems nothing of all these things) into some form of conversation wether it is speak or text, or I'm verbally/visually going through future conversations I am going to have with people (or characters in stories). The transfer or translation into art is a bit lighter(?), it is fun to visualize. When someone says dog, I see essence of dog, I couldn't even say what kind of dog I visualize, and it is not the word dog either, more like..the meaning behind the word if that makes sense..? It is sort of inconcrete and yet to me it is very concrete, just not what people would call it. lol "orz

When I think of situations I often end up seeing me as well, either from fly-on-the-wall perspective or as if I was sitting on my own shoulder (you know kinda 3rd person perspective in videogames), but I never have a 3rd person narrator commenting or summarizing past events or something like a voice from the off, and it is also not, for example, those delightful non-stop alternating imaginations Dorian has from the series Scrubs.
Actually, I had fun integrating that sort of thing into writing scenes, but I thought that it was more like an old-school theater tool to play in a bit of absurdity, meta level and humor, not that some people actually have that in their heads. Fascinating. :D My SO seems to do the later as well (narrator), but only occasionally to kind of to mock himself. I think I speak to myself when I have "what the fuck did you just do" moments and when I'm being too tough on myself (these thoughts are more out of control), but that is "me", again, not a narrator.

The whole idea about having thoughts without words feels normal to me. I don't know what it is but it comes out of something I call white space. This is something I find that has more acceptance here.. one of this forum's blessings.

When I learn, I like to see what I am supposed to learn, because I am trying to figure out what is important, especially if there is a specific way or expectation in the task involved. It is a bit stressful though. When it comes to language learning, there is some system learning involved I guess, but mainly.. if I learn within a culture, I skip alot, I sort of assume across unknown parts and my straw to hold or petal to land on is meaning, and human patterns. I don't translate words to words either, I might look up words in need or check in with what a person attaches to words.. but there is some sort of translation/transfer going on all the time when interacting with the outside world, that has nothing to do with language at all. White space doings..

All these "watch if you use positive or negative vocabulary" may have different impacts depending on the way someone thinks. Would a narrator replay the critique of other in exactly the same words? Curious..
( I've occasional anxieties and overthinking tendencies when it comes to impacting others. That is no secret. :stressed: And I suck at finding the way rather than having trouble seeing the place I want to go, except for example I've entangled myself in inner conflicts that are not solvable, then that creative seeing the place can get problems and I get stuck. )
 
You know @Ren I'm not very familiar with this topic/might need to ask some dumb questions to get off the ground. Tentatively, yeah it sounds kinda intuitively true that I think in words a lot more than 'visually' --- as for 'patterns' that sounds quite familiar too. I tend to kind of go wild noticing analogies between things where the things themselves are blurred, and just the flavor/structure of the analogies is in focus, and actually sometimes it takes time to disentangle it into words/I kinda 'know' the answer at that level before I fully can disentangle into words.

But just to get this out of the way, I imagine there is some level of visual thinking if the task is very visual (like a geometry problem in mathematics. .... or drawing a picture in art class)?

So I'm wondering if the issue is rather about how one represents the elements of the task, vs what the task is more in and of itself. For example, maybe a task involves processing verbal data in some way, but someone might represent the verbal data more pictorially, i.e. 'see' the words?
 
Skarekrow said:
I once met a guy with Aphantasia, he quite literally could not imagine anything.
The mind's eye is lacking in any form.
It was quite fascinating listening to his point of view or lack thereof.
Difficult for me to imagine not having a mind's eye!
Cheers!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphantasia
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I think I might have some mild version of this.

I can recreate taste and smell well, but visually I am incredibly poor. i do dream in pictures, but that's about it.

I blame my parents and lack of creative nurture in childhood.
 
philostam said:
I think I might have some mild version of this.

I can recreate taste and smell well, but visually I am incredibly poor. i do dream in pictures, but that's about it.

I blame my parents and lack of creative nurture in childhood.
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How interesting. :)

Supposedly it effects almost 2% of the population - though this is a rough number since not many studies seem to have been done on the condition.
It's more to do with specific brain structures than it has to do with nurturing in childhood, so you can probably let your parents off the hook. ;)
Can you form any mental pictures in your mind?
When you think of a person can you see their face with your mind's eye?

Take care!
:<3white:
 
Roses In The Vineyard said:
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I so relate to her. Especially about not being bored because you can just use your imagination. I wonder if I have a touch of this. It's why I have a hard time hearing gruesome news stories because my mind just conjures up the horrific scenes described as if I'm there. There are times when my imagination does run wild and I can become distracted by the surreality of it.
 
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