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Neurotoxins

Entyqua

Entyqua

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Jul 11, 2008
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I am writing a murder mystery for NaNoWriMo and need some help....I need a toxin that can either be breathed or ingested that will cause paralysis, while still leaving the victim conscious and able to feel. I know this is morbid...but this serial killer is very sick! Any ideas?

Here is what I have considered
Tetrodotoxin - While this is my first choice, i cant have the victim dying of respiratory failure first.

Belladonna - but the side effects are so varied...I would worry the death would come of once again respiratory failure first.

Curare, but everywhere I have read also says attacks the lungs first, and has to enter through blood stream





Any other ideas? or know more about above materials that could be useful?
 
OOOOOhhhh! I love a good murder mystery.

Paralyzed but still able to feel?

What about Botox? Doesn't botulism toxin cause lockjaw? That's sort of a kind of paralysis.
 
Janet said:
OOOOOhhhh! I love a good murder mystery.

Paralyzed but still able to feel?

What about Botox? Doesn't botulism toxin cause lockjaw? That's sort of a kind of paralysis.
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Was just reading about that. If ingested or inhaled it takes 12-18 hours to kick in. I assume that is far too slow for a serial killer
 
Solar Empath said:
Was just reading about that. If ingested or inhaled it takes 12-18 hours to kick in. I assume that is far too slow for a serial killer
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yes I need hours...

Just read this about tetrodotoxin


  • The first symptoms occur 15 minutes to several hours postingestion of tetrodotoxin-containing food. A recent report on toxicity found that initial symptoms may occur up to 20 hours after ingestion.
  • Initial symptoms include lip and tongue paresthesias, followed by facial and extremity paresthesias and numbness.
  • Salivation, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea with abdominal pain develop early.
  • Motor dysfunction with weakness, hypoventilation (may be from dysfunction of central and peripheral nervous systems), and speech difficulties then develop. A rapid ascending paralysis occurs over 4-24 hours. Extremity paralysis precedes bulbar paralysis, which is followed by respiratory muscle paralysis. Deep tendon reflexes are preserved early in the course of paralysis.
  • Finally, cardiac dysfunction with hypotension and dysrhythmias (bradycardia), central nervous system (CNS) dysfunction (eg, coma), and seizures develop. Patients with severe toxicity may have deep coma, fixed nonreactive pupils, apnea, and loss of all brain stem reflexes.
  • Death can occur within 4-6 hours. Typically, death occurs from respiratory muscle paralysis and respiratory failure.
 
I think you need a good Pre-Synaptic Neurotoxin from a nice little snake, like this:
http://www.toxinology.com/fusebox.cfm?staticaction=snakes/ns-venmed02.htm

Presynaptic neurotoxins generally are modified phospholipase A2 toxins which specifically target the terminal axon of the neuromuscular junction, causing first release of neurotransmitter, then extensive damage to the axonal structure, completely disrupting transmitter synaptic vesicle production and thus cessation of transmitter release. Clinically this causes a progressive flaccid paralysis, with onset of first signs usually 1+ hours post bite, with progressive paralysis thereafter. Full respiratory paralysis, including the diaphragm, may take 3-24 hours, but once paralysed, recovery rate is determined by axonal repair and is not influenced by antivenom therapy. It is therefore critically important in this type of envenoming to recognise the early signs of paralysis and institute effective antivenom therapy before more extensive paralysis becomes irreversibly established. Complete paralysis may take days, weeks or, rarely, months to resolve. During this period the victim is dependent on external ventilatory support and at risk of a number of potentially severe complications. Presynaptic neurotoxins are found in selected Elapid and Viperid venoms.
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Oh, but I think you'd have to inject it. Bummer.
 
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I know that they created "zombies" with the neurotoxin from a pufferfish. I forgot where I heard that, though.
 
TheDaringHatTrick said:
I know that they created "zombies" with the neurotoxin from a pufferfish. I forgot where I heard that, though.
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It was a myth...there was a book about it, and it was disproved in the eighties...Thats the tetrodotoxin I have in my list! lol
 
Entyqua said:
It was a myth...there was a book about it, and it was disproved in the eighties...Thats the tetrodotoxin I have in my list! lol
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Like I said, I heard it somewhere. I think it was Ripley's Believe it Or Not.

Anyhow, what about looking for some pharmaceuticals that induce catatonia specifically? Adenosine is a possibility...
 
TheDaringHatTrick said:
Like I said, I heard it somewhere. I think it was Ripley's Believe it Or Not.

Anyhow, what about looking for some pharmaceuticals that induce catatonia specifically? Adenosine is a possibility...
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I like the idea of using pharmaceuticals too...Wiki on that one is confusing...I cant decide if its an upper or a downer! lol...I will research more of it!
 
Entyqua said:
I like the idea of using pharmaceuticals too...Wiki on that one is confusing...I cant decide if its an upper or a downer! lol...I will research more of it!
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Some anti-psychotics induce catatonia. At a higher dose, perphenazine can induce paralysis. Tranquilizers are also handy-dandy for your serial killer. Or better yet, look up case studies of serial killers that fit that profile. Paul Bernardo is one of the most famous serial killers who drugged his victims.

Still, if you're doing NanoWrimo, I would advise that you don't get too hung up on the little nitty-gritty details. You can always come back and revise if you didn't use the right drug/or your research doesn't add up. Just get the story done, girl!
 
TheDaringHatTrick said:
Some anti-psychotics induce catatonia. At a higher dose, perphenazine can induce paralysis. Tranquilizers are also handy-dandy for your serial killer. Or better yet, look up case studies of serial killers that fit that profile. Paul Bernardo is one of the most famous serial killers who drugged his victims.

Still, if you're doing NanoWrimo, I would advise that you don't get too hung up on the little nitty-gritty details. You can always come back and revise if you didn't use the right drug/or your research doesn't add up. Just get the story done, girl!
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Thats what I have done now...moved on...just getting it out...I want to be accurate, but i know i need to get moving!
 
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