Narcissists | INFJ Forum

Narcissists

Discussion in 'Relationships and Sociology' started by Elis, Aug 20, 2013.

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  1. Elis

    Elis I Like this Place

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    Something that have been on my mind for a while;

    Whenenver* you read something regarding narcissism and narcissists it is usually directed towards the people around the narcissist. It usually goes along the lines of how naive people are to think that they can cure someone and how they should leave said person, and so on. What I wonder is, what should the narcissist do, given that s/he can't change, from that perspective.


    *generally
     
  2. Korg

    Korg Banging on the walls

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    I don't accept the common notion that narcissists are incapable of change. They can. They just need to learn to love and accept themselves - which, admittedly, isn't easy. But it's not impossible. (This also good advice in general, btw; it will heal many afflictions of personality).

    I mean, the fundamental belief that drives the narcissist personality is: "my real self isn't good enough, so I'm rejecting it and replacing it with a contrived identity that will allow me to get my needs met from the world." That becomes their whole mission in life: keeping the contrived identity alive which is wholly sustained by receiving attention / validation. I know this because I've known quite a few narcissists in my life.

    As an aside, it's pretty common among enneagram 4's.
     
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  3. sentientsixpence

    sentientsixpence fail daemon

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    Narcissists can change... they just can't be diagnosed. No one with Narcissistic Personality Disorder believes they have a disorder, which makes it slightly worse than Borderline. People with NPD quickly bore of whoever they have decided needs rescuing. They need a constant throughput of new people in their lives to pay attention to them.

    I have... extensive experience with people who have these two personality disorders.

    :m119:
     
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  4. bagelriffic

    bagelriffic Community Member

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    I am impressed by the knowledge of narcissistic personalities by the first two posts. I was afraid I would have to explain the difference between the narcissistic and schizoid personality types as they often get confused with each other.

    I believe my own personality to be pathologically narcissistic due to the nature and order of the object relations ive encountered thus far in my spiritual pursuits.

    To reaffim whats been said we suffer from a grandiose sense of self. This is difficult to pinpoint as it is referred to as my sense of identity, its not like I can tell I feel grandiose by any means other than by seeing my attempts to support that sense of self. I do that through idealizing others and certain situations as well as finding and maintaining relationships with those whom I believe idealize me. In a general sense I have a polite and unobstructive personality which is often counter to what most people believe a narcissist to be.

    Im here to tell you this is not something someone can simply change. After three years of serious self inquiry and observation I am only now beginning to encounter and uncover the supports for an inflated sense of self I have yet to even see directly.

    Fr what ive read the grandiose self and the need for support are only resolved when one ceases to identify with the personality, in other words enlightenment or self realization.
     
  5. sentientsixpence

    sentientsixpence fail daemon

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    Have you been diagnosed by a professional? For the most part, NPD is a lot like hypochondria in that it's among the few things that thinking you have it is a counter indication that you actually do.
     
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  6. bagelriffic

    bagelriffic Community Member

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    My belief in a grandiose identity is based upon the prevalence of the mirroring transference which surfaced quite early in working on myself, which from what ive read doesnt normally surface until much later for others involved in this sort of work. Before I was involved in self analysis I recount vague feelings of uniqueness or feeling highly individuated, though I dont consider this to be a clear or objective indication of a grandiose identity.

    Regardless I have yet to hear of any 'cure' for ones very identity beyond spiritual endeavors. What I have read of are more stable or realistic means of support, particularly with the idealizing transference. But this is still in support of an unrealistic sense of self upon which the entire personality rests and is built to support.
     
  7. Lexika

    Lexika Community Member

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    Several Ns I've met denied to the last straw that they were Ns. Even if they went to a therapist, and a therapist told them that they have NPD and are using other people like objects to satisfy their own need for narcissistic supply, even then they would find loopholes to deny it. Sometimes they would start looking for NPD in other people (like their therapist lol). It gave them relief to think that it's them, the other people who are to blame, and not them. Narcissism is related to sociopathy, so people with NPD like sociopaths come up with reasons to deny that there is anything wrong with them or that they are at fault. If they admit it, I would think that they'd try to turn it around and wear it like a badge or derive popularity from it (and hence more narcissistic supply for themselves), which is what Sam Vaknin has done. He's a narcissist who once he's found out about his disorder started writing and selling books about NPD: http://samvak.tripod.com/cv.html

    The disorder is not curable at the present time. It's deeply ingrained "ego glitch" around which the person builds their entire personality since their teens (which is usually when personality disorders surface). Overcoming NPD would require them to completely change their entire personality, which of course is next to impossible for most people. But there is therapy to enable these people to live better adjusted lives.
     
  8. dukeofearl

    dukeofearl Newbie

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    Don't trust them.
     
  9. Nixie

    Nixie Resurrected

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    Found at Mayo Clinic Site: Narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by dramatic, emotional behavior, which is in the same category as antisocial and borderline personality disorders. Narcissistic personality disorder symptoms may include:

    • Believing that you're better than others
    • Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
    • Exaggerating your achievements or talents
    • Expecting constant praise and admiration
    • Believing that you're special and acting accordingly
    • Failing to recognize other people's emotions and feelings
    • Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans
    • Taking advantage of others
    • Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior
    • Being jealous of others
    • Believing that others are jealous of you
    • Trouble keeping healthy relationships
    • Setting unrealistic goals
    • Being easily hurt and rejected
    • Having a fragile self-esteem
    • Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional
    Although some features of narcissistic personality disorder may seem like having confidence or strong self-esteem, it's not the same. Narcissistic personality disorder crosses the border of healthy confidence and self-esteem into thinking so highly of yourself that you put yourself on a pedestal. In contrast, people who have healthy confidence and self-esteem don't value themselves more than they value others.
    When you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may come across as conceited, boastful or pretentious. You often monopolize conversations. You may belittle or look down on people you perceive as inferior. You may have a sense of entitlement. And when you don't receive the special treatment to which you feel entitled, you may become very impatient or angry. You may insist on having "the best" of everything — the best car, athletic club, medical care or social circles, for instance.
    But underneath all this behavior often lies a fragile self-esteem. You have trouble handling anything that may be perceived as criticism. You may have a sense of secret shame and humiliation. And in order to make yourself feel better, you may react with rage or contempt and efforts to belittle the other person to make yourself appear better.
     
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  10. Nixie

    Nixie Resurrected

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    I think the important feature to note about any type of deviant behavior is an emphasis on the idea that your actions/inaction has a detrimental affect on your life and thereby, others. I think we all have the ability to engage in brief spats of unhealthy behavior from time to time that may last for an extended period of time, usually associated with some outside stressor/agent. However, someone with a problem such as NPD engages is the behavior as a default. Changes in our fundamental sense of self can be difficult to manage. I would say that it would take a considerable amount of effort and desire to evolve into a healthier, less self-involved person once that persona has become entrenched. I avoid saying something is absolutely impossible but I think such behavior becomes so entrenched as to be impossible to avoid acting upon.
     
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  11. bagelriffic

    bagelriffic Community Member

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    Well I think its important to remember there are different degrees and types of narcissism. I believe im dealing with central narcissism which is developed roughly between one and two years of age. Oral narcissism is developed in the first year and is usually characterized by the more borderline conditions.

    I am most definitely not a sociopath lol. I believe Fairbairns schizoid personality to be closer to that description of apathy and emotional aloofness. Trust me when I say these are the guys you wanna watch out for.

    Basically and in a general sense what were looking at here is an exaggerated identity that needs exaggerated support. This is done through idealizing people or situations - like musicians, actors, authors, etc. - which I dont personally identify with anymore. Or through surrounding yourself with people who admire, respect, or support you in your endeavors. I mean does this lifestyle sound so distant from the 'average' personality?

    General narcissism is an exaggeration of average identity, not its own separate issue. This implies that all personalities need support and furthermore use the idealizing and mirror transferences to get it, just on smaller scales. This is not that big a stretch for those familiar with object relations theory. Anyway I point this out bc I dont want people to think narcissists are some sort of sadistic predators who hurt others or dont have feelings of their own. Theyre people dealing with an issue that, like it or not, everyone is in some form or other.
     
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