My horrible INFJ boss

[Peace]

A lot of what has been said about task oriented people bugs me.

A task oriented person is not someone who needs to have their hand held and be guided through things step by step and they aren't people who are incapable of independent thought and action.

It is simple. If there is a particular way you want something done, then give me clear instructions on how to do it. If you don't give me the instructions, then I will do it my way, and you sure has hell better shut the fuck up and not complain about it after the fact.

Second, I want to know exactly what is expected of me. A simple list will suffice and would provide me with a way to chart my progress. If you don't tell me exactly what is expected of me, then don't be surprised if I have no idea what I am supposed to do. Just because it is obvious to you doesn't mean it is obvious to me. I do not want to step on anyone's toes by doing a job that I am not supposed to do, nor do I want to volunteer to do mundane tasks that I am not expected to do.

Third, if I find a better way of completing a task and you insist I do it your way without providing any rational as to why you want it done in your less efficient way, then don't be surprised if I start to hate the task and secretly begin to question your competency.

Fourth, you can't have it both ways. You can't tell me to figure things out on my own, and when I make decisions you don't like, come down on me and ask why I didn't track you down and have you walk me through how you wanted it done step by step. If it is so important to you that you have to have it done a specific way, then you need to make the effort to communicate that to me, otherwise I will do it my way.

Finally, don't be surprised when a task oriented person stops taking initiative when you come down on them for it. I love taking initiative, but only when I'm comfortable enough knowing I'm not going to get punished for doing it.

 

[Peace]

...whether she remembers something correctly is totally irrelevant to the fact that there is a problem, and it needs to be fixed.

All too often the problem was she would tell us to do things one way, and when we would later find out that was the wrong way to do it, she would have no memory that she was the one who told us that we had to do it that way.

 

[christmas]

no doubt your supervisor was a crazy bitch, but you are not taking any accountability for the fact that your team wasn't doing the job properly. whether or not she told you to do the job properly or not, your team should know how to do the job for which it was hired. if she in fact told you to do your job incorrectly, you're telling us your team just sat back and said, "okay boss?" lots of folks here said to document to CYA. basically, you've confirmed what i've already suspected. you're more interested in laying blame than fixing the problem. it's not uncommon in young NTs.

 

[the]

I have always trained employees with a task by showing them how I would do it. I then tell them that they may find another way works better for them, and as long as the task is done on time and in a quality manner I don't care how they get it done.

This is an ISTJ dream come true.

 

[Peace]

no doubt your supervisor was a crazy bitch, but you are not taking any accountability for the fact that your team wasn't doing the job properly. whether or not she told you to do the job properly or not, your team should know how to do the job for which it was hired. if she in fact told you to do your job incorrectly, you're telling us your team just sat back and said, "okay boss?" lots of folks here said to document to CYA. basically, you've confirmed what i've already suspected. you're more interested in laying blame than fixing the problem. it's not uncommon in young NTs.

Actually, I started writing out everything I was going to do for the day and having her literally sign it.

Her response was to single me out and write out my daily tasks on the staff room whiteboard where everyone could see them. This angered the others because as they said, "She is punishing you like she would a child."

I then started to e-mail her asking for instruction when I needed it. At one point she sent me an e-mail telling me I have to have everything I did immediately signed off by her. I sent her an e-mail asking for clarification on what she meant by "immediately" as in did I have to interrupt whatever she was doing to have her sign off on things. Her response was one line, "Do as my e-mail says." No clarification.

 

[Peace]

you are not taking any accountability for the fact that your team wasn't doing the job properly, whether or not she told you to do the job properly or not, your team should know how to do the job for which it was hired. if she in fact told you to do your job incorrectly, you're telling us your team just sat back and said, "okay boss?"

The team did the job. The problem was the team often wasn't doing the job the way the supervisor wanted it done. If that is what you mean by "properly" then could you explain to me how the team was supposed to accomplish what the supervisor wanted if she didn't communicate it clearly or she communicated it incorrectly?

This is what I find annoying...why the expectation for people to pick up subtle hints and practically read minds? Why not just say things directly?

lots of folks here said to document to CYA. basically, you've confirmed what i've already suspected.

I find the fact that you had "suspicions" rather interesting. So you came into this thread with a preconceived notion. What precisely confirmed your suspensions?

you're more interested in laying blame than fixing the problem. it's not uncommon in young NTs.

I seldom "lay blame" but I would like to hear why you feel this is a common NT problem. Could you cite some examples or explain why the cognitive functions might lead to that course of behavior?

 

[christmas]

if she was signing off on your daily tasks, you're wasting in her time in more ways than one. how did your work relationship deteriorate to that point? don't answer.

your manager was upset because your team consistently did the job incorrectly. not doing it the way she wanted is incorrect. if what she wanted was impossible or impractical, you communicate this to her. perhaps your definition of what was impossible or impractical was the problem in the first place. results are all that matter in a business setting. if her communications skills were lacking you go to her manager.

after two long posts, you're still the victim. "it was all her!" i didn't do anything!" this smacks of, "i couldn't hack it at this job, and i need someone to blame."

now you're just trolling (you get a -C). you call the thread "My horrible INFJ boss," and then want to say you seldom lay blame. then want to call me out on having preconceived notions. you're not the first INTP to come here to victimize himself and complain about INFJs

no, i don't feel like citing references when there are so many INTP forums around rife with these kind of shenanz. i also don't pick apart people's arguments when under any amount of stress (looking at you, OP). i'm not nitpicky.

well, it was fun while it lasted. ::single teardrop::

 

[grt$5vb]

It sounds like the boss is under a lot of stress, and acting out. Your concerns should be addressed. She really should show you how she wants something done, so you can better grasp her meaning.

 

[Peace]

if she was signing off on your daily tasks, you're wasting in her time in more ways than one. how did your work relationship deteriorate to that point? don't answer.

your manager was upset because your team consistently did the job incorrectly. not doing it the way she wanted is incorrect. if what she wanted was impossible or impractical, you communicate this to her. perhaps your definition of what was impossible or impractical was the problem in the first place. results are all that matter in a business setting. if her communications skills were lacking you go to her manager.

after two long posts, you're still the victim. "it was all her!" i didn't do anything!" this smacks of, "i couldn't hack it at this job, and i need someone to blame."

now you're just trolling (you get a -C). you call the thread "My horrible INFJ boss," and then want to say you seldom lay blame. then want to call me out on having preconceived notions. you're not the first INTP to come here to victimize himself and complain about INFJs

no, i don't feel like citing references when there are so many INTP forums around rife with these kind of shenanz. i also don't pick apart people's arguments when under any amount of stress (looking at you, OP). i'm not nitpicky.

well, it was fun while it lasted. ::single teardrop::

It's interesting, but I got a call tonight and found out the person who has taken over my position is now having the exact same issues I had with that supervisor. While I was there I had three different employees voice that they were having the same issues. I also described my situation in purely observational statements and a completely unrelated third party confirmed that it sounded like my old supervisor was acting in a completely unprofessional way.

To put it bluntly, I think you and my former supervisor share a common characteristic. You are bullies. You like to make completely unfounded accusations in order to emotionally attack people. You then shut down all communication and refuse to back up anything you say and this is all out of some sort of self righteous sense that people must comply with your sense of what is "proper" and "appropriate".

And yes, I did approach my old supervisor's boss. She then proceeded to have an argument with her supervisor in front of me and another employee until he retreated.

So I am quite certain my old supervisor is to blame. I would not have started this thread if I was not.

Oh, one more thing. Fuck you.

 

[Peace]

It sounds like the boss is under a lot of stress, and acting out. Your concerns should be addressed. She really should show you how she wants something done, so you can better grasp her meaning.

Thank you. I appreciate it.

 

[Matt3737]

To put it bluntly, I think you and my former supervisor share a common characteristic. You are bullies. You like to make completely unfounded accusations in order to emotionally attack people. You then shut down all communication and refuse to back up anything you say and this is all out of some sort of self righteous sense that people must comply with your sense of what is "proper" and "appropriate".

So I am quite certain my old supervisor is to blame. I would not have started this thread if I was not.

So, let me see if I got this straight. You started a new thread for a topic that was never up for discussion in your mind. You got a response that was speculatively accustory based on the topic that was presented. You then accuse them of emotionally attacking and shutting down communication without evidence in order to achieve compliance.

Was that an accurate description?

 

[Peace]

You started a new thread for a topic that was never up for discussion in your mind.

False. If you read back in the thread I reconsidered the MBTI type of my supervisor.

I made one post in disagreement about how some people were characterizing task oriented people.

Then I came under a verbal assault from Ms. Christmas.

You got a response that was speculatively accustory based on the topic that was presented.

What is speculative about it? She is accusing me of not taking responsibility and doing my job incorrectly.

You then accuse them of emotionally attacking and shutting down communication without evidence in order to achieve compliance.

Ooookay. In one post she accused me of...

1. Wasting my old supervisor's time.
2. Being responsible for the deterioration of the work relationship.
3. Not doing my job correctly.
4. Not communicating with my supervisor.
5. Not understanding the situation.
6. Not getting results.
7. Not communicating to her supervisor.
8. Proclaiming myself a "victim"
9. Being incapable of the job.
10. Looking for someone to blame.
11. Trolling.
12. Being here just to complain about INFJs.
13. Being under stress.

So she made 13 accusations in a period of one post. Please consider that my evidence.

This is an interesting tactic I learned from my supervisor. You make as many accusations as possible in as short a period as possible in hopes of emotionally frustrating the other person. It would take an incredibly long period of time and effort to address every one of those accusations and each one is geared to play on the emotions. If Ms. Christmas is an INFJ then I think it may be good evidence that my supervisor was an INFJ since I haven't really seen many people use this particular tactic.

Was that an accurate description?

I do not believe that is an accurate description.

 

[Matt3737]

False. If you read back in the thread I reconsidered the MBTI type of my supervisor.

I made one post in disagreement about how some people were characterizing task oriented people.

Then I came under a verbal assault from Ms. Christmas.



What is speculative about it? She is accusing me of not taking responsibility and doing my job incorrectly.



Ooookay. In one post she accused me of...

1. Wasting my old supervisor's time.
2. Being responsible for the deterioration of the work relationship.
3. Not doing my job correctly.
4. Not communicating with my supervisor.
5. Not understanding the situation.
6. Not getting results.
7. Not communicating to her supervisor.
8. Proclaiming myself a "victim"
9. Being incapable of the job.
10. Looking for someone to blame.
11. Trolling.
12. Being here just to complain about INFJs.
13. Being under stress.

So she made 13 accusations in a period of one post. Please consider that my evidence.

This is an interesting tactic I learned from my supervisor. You make as many accusations as possible in as short a period as possible in hopes of emotionally frustrating the other person. If Ms. Christmas is an INFJ then I think it may be good evidence that my supervisor was an INFJ since I haven't really seen many people use it.



I do not believe that is an accurate description.

I bring her up for two reasons. One is that she was the first INFJ I had ever had real prolonged contact with in the real world. Second, I disliked her a great deal.

To put my regular disclaimer on, I don't expect that I can generalize my interactions with her to every INFJ. However, these were the following issues I had with her which I would love to discuss here.

This is a mixed message that really says, 'I just feel the need to vent and badmouth this particular individual.' falling entirely under the second reason you listed. Unless, of course, you meant to generalize and badmouth a large group of people based on conjecture and speculation. I, personally, don't have any objection to this. I'm sure she probably was a bitch in many ways, but at least be honest about what your goal is because it was never about how your personal experience with this individual is characteristic of INFJ typology.

I'm not sure why I need to point out how Ms. Christmas has never worked with you or personally witnessed your work ethic and is basing her entire response on how you structured your initial post. I'm pretty sure that's the entire point of your counter offensive remark, is that she can't possibly have evidence of such to justify those remarks. I can understand why you'd be offended by it though, because it does lack a certain amount of tact for someone who has supposedly seen many like it previously.

The point being though is that her response is based off your initial post because this is supposed to be an open discussion, but unfortunately it is growing into an emotional fight in order to force compliance and close discussion. If you just wanted to vent and not discuss how you might be emotionally biased in viewing the topic, then maybe a blog entry would have been a better format. As it is structured now, it is merely negative emotions and accusations built on a foundation of speculation and generalization. There is no evidence to be presented on a message board and not much room for positivity and understanding currently. The outcome of such a topic should be fairly obvious.

 

[Peace]

This is a mixed message that really says, 'I just feel the need to vent and badmouth this particular individual.' falling entirely under the second reason you listed. Unless, of course, you meant to generalize and badmouth a large group of people based on conjecture and speculation. I, personally, don't have any objection to this. I'm sure she probably was a bitch in many ways, but at least be honest about what your goal is because it was never about how your personal experience with this individual is characteristic of INFJ typology.

This was the only individual who self identified as an INFJ with whom I have had extensive contact with off of the internet. Associating with her was not a pleasant experience. I wanted to explore these negative traits, which I had not observed in many other people, to see if they were type specific. What I am finding evidence of in this thread is that conjecture into agenda and accusations do tend to be INFJ traits.

I'm not sure why I need to point out how Ms. Christmas has never worked with you or personally witnessed your work ethic and is basing her entire response on how you structured your initial post. I'm pretty sure that's the entire point of your counter offensive remark, is that she can't possibly have evidence of such to justify those remarks. I can understand why you'd be offended by it though, because it does lack a certain amount of tact for someone who has supposedly seen many like it previously.

The point being though is that her response is based off your initial post because this is supposed to be an open discussion, but unfortunately it is growing into an emotional fight in order to force compliance and close discussion. If you just wanted to vent and not discuss how you might be emotionally biased in viewing the topic, then maybe a blog entry would have been a better format. As it is structured now, it is merely negative emotions and accusations built on a foundation of speculation and generalization. There is no evidence to be presented on a message board and not much room for positivity and understanding currently. The outcome of such a topic should be fairly obvious.

This was meant to be a discussion on whether the behaviors I observed were type specific. Instead, several members made rather disparaging remarks about task oriented people and then Ms. Christmas took it upon herself to attack me personally.

 

[JoeBlacksilver]

In my experience, the only people who can't get along with INFJs are those who treat others unfairly. So I don't think your boss really was an INFJ.

I find that people that irritate me (as an INFJ) the most are those that make mountains out of molehills in berating me (Typically ISTJ, ISFJ). Everyone makes small mistakes and I feel that a broken cup is no big deal, and I forgive easily. But if I'm not shown the same compassion, or talked down to as if I'm a child who intended to wreak havoc on the world... *oh boy*... a nuclear bomb just went off... inside my head, whilst maintaining a calm demeanour as I try to politely apologise and placate the object of my wrath. And if they don't calm the f*** down soon, the nuclear blast just reached the outside.

 

[JoeBlacksilver]

Those were just a few. So do you any of you see some of those traits in yourself? If you do, can you explain why? WHY?

On behalf on bad INFJ bosses, I'm so sorry! I'm only just becoming a new boss for the first time, and I've had many horrible bosses. I don't want to be a horrible boss. I can see/feel some of those things in me. Though some of it may be just general emotional immaturity like passive aggressive-ness.

 

[Pin]

INFJs, the worst.

Honestly, I couldn't stand having anyone as a boss. Power over me is not something I prefer.

 

[JoeBlacksilver]

In my experience, the only people who can't get along with INFJs are those who treat others unfairly. So I don't think your boss really was an INFJ.

As an INFJ, I've had an ENFJ Boss, and I feel they're INFJ's on steroids. I was constantly annoyed that he exhibited a lot of traits that i have.

I think if INFJs are unfair, it's not because it comes from a hostile malicious unethical place, but place of "This worker/person is great in my opinion, I want to shower them with love"... "This person needs to be corrected so that they can become a better person." which comes from intuition, rather than the cold hard empirical facts from STJs

 

[ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc]

Not too long ago I had an INFJ supervisor. We discussed MBTI and she mentioned to me that she was an INFJ, although I had suspected that long before it was ever mentioned.

I bring her up for two reasons. One is that she was the first INFJ I had ever had real prolonged contact with in the real world. Second, I disliked her a great deal.

To put my regular disclaimer on, I don't expect that I can generalize my interactions with her to every INFJ. However, these were the following issues I had with her which I would love to discuss here.

1. Emotional expressions. It annoyed me to no end that my boss had a seemingly infinite number of facial expressions but there was no real discernible way to interpret what they meant. There would be moments when I would try to explain something to her and she would just stare at me with facial expression that was just completely unreadable. It also annoyed me that she could change her emotional expression so rapidly, as if she was living from feeling to feeling.

2. Passive aggressive behavior. Another thing that drove me nuts was that my supervisor would never mention when we weren't doing things the way she wanted, apparently to avoid conflict with us, and then she would explode on one of us and make a big show of it in front of all the others and leave use feeling like crap for the whole day.

3. Intolerance of task oriented people. I'm a task oriented individual and as long as you tell me what to do and the steps to do it, then I'm happy to get it done. But no, this supervisor seemed to have a great dislike of us task oriented workers and she would only tell us a couple steps and then tell us to ask her questions if we ran into any problems. Of course that often meant when she wasn't available we had to make assumptions, which often made her very angry, especially if they were wrong. But as per assertion 2, we wouldn't hear about it until later.

4. Revisionist. I was astonished to see that my supervisor actually remembered things differently than everyone else. If she made a mistake, then after the fact, she would remember a different accounting of what happened than everyone else, in which she was not responsible for the mistake.

5. Excessive care to detail. This supervisor created rules like "no incomplete sentences on paperwork" which continues to blow my mind since they were beyond and above what was necessary and added tedium to the work.

Those were just a few. So do you any of you see some of those traits in yourself? If you do, can you explain why? WHY?

Judging by the title of this thread and all the bad shit you have to say about her, I conclude she's INFP

 

[JoeBlacksilver]

A lot of what has been said about task oriented people bugs me.

A task oriented person is not someone who needs to have their hand held and be guided through things step by step and they aren't people who are incapable of independent thought and action.

It is simple. If there is a particular way you want something done, then give me clear instructions on how to do it. If you don't give me the instructions, then I will do it my way, and you sure has hell better shut the fuck up and not complain about it after the fact.

Second, I want to know exactly what is expected of me. A simple list will suffice and would provide me with a way to chart my progress. If you don't tell me exactly what is expected of me, then don't be surprised if I have no idea what I am supposed to do. Just because it is obvious to you doesn't mean it is obvious to me. I do not want to step on anyone's toes by doing a job that I am not supposed to do, nor do I want to volunteer to do mundane tasks that I am not expected to do.

Third, if I find a better way of completing a task and you insist I do it your way without providing any rational as to why you want it done in your less efficient way, then don't be surprised if I start to hate the task and secretly begin to question your competency.

Fourth, you can't have it both ways. You can't tell me to figure things out on my own, and when I make decisions you don't like, come down on me and ask why I didn't track you down and have you walk me through how you wanted it done step by step. If it is so important to you that you have to have it done a specific way, then you need to make the effort to communicate that to me, otherwise I will do it my way.

Finally, don't be surprised when a task oriented person stops taking initiative when you come down on them for it. I love taking initiative, but only when I'm comfortable enough knowing I'm not going to get punished for doing it.

I'm guilty of attributing all virtues and vices about a person by their personality type; as there are other factors that contribute to a person's annoyances too like: emotional maturity, upbringing, self-awareness, life circumstances and pressures, personal likes and dislikes, culture, past experiences etc etc. An immature INFJ can look very different to a mature INFJ. Then we would have to add in IINFJ vs MINFJ... ABCXYZINFJ. But one or two major traits I find that can really change a person is Emotional maturity and Self Awareness which often go hand in hand.