MBTI Gender nonconformity in my life

[Fruiteloop]

The difficulty I have when it comes to understanding who I am is really to do with whether I was conditioned to be the way I am or programmed from birth. I know its a bit of both but really when it comes to my interacting with people I do not have the sense of being a strong male character and that somehow this could be seen by others a way to cope with my inferiority. That I do not do male things in male ways or that I do not just get over my fears an man up.

You see I had this roommate for 3 years that recently died by I have such a hard time feeling anything about it because men do not process their emotions the same way a women supposedly and even if I am a weak man I still act this way, hold it all inside. But unlike most people the real issue is that I have no problems with LGBT type people yet simply cannot force myself to think of myself in that way. I am straight and my roommate was trans female. They never had any romantic or any other attraction to me or me them but we stayed together 3 years because I was helping them move out my moms home. She needed someone to babysit my adult brother because my mom has intellectual disabilities and he was a pain in the ass to her. But then my sister moved in they had problems coexisting. The least I could do was try and help my mom. Both my brother and them were being kicked out and I did not want any friction to happen because my sister had kids.

So then I noticed things about how they were and asked them questions when they were staying with me. They said they did not feel threatened by me. They were big too, 6 inches taller than me but they said they felt safe which was not the case other places they'd been. I had come to the conclusion that they were ISTP mostly because they worked on cars and not art. They could be ISFP but that harder to tell for me because my sister is ESFP and clear differences arose I could tell in Ti and Fi mixing with Se

Since they died I have had mixed feelings about them. They themselves wanted to be female and that was no problem for me but they had other mental conditions and they fought with people. One time they had an acquaintance run into my home after being stabbed and we called the ambulance for the person. So I felt anxious allot around them. The could fix many things but I always thought why not fix it the right way with new parts not broken parts found in dumpsters. They were constantly in survival mode and had trouble organizing and I was not really liking to ask them to do things my way because they were the independent type of person. Otherwise we had not problems and I stayed to myself but I did most of the things they needed me to do on their projects requiring precision. They used their phone allot to find instructions I simple could do without help. Video games were part of there hobbies, they like PlayStation and could see single pixel movements in shooter games.

Right now I have to take care of the two big dogs they left behind.
For some strange reason they told me to keep one of the dogs before they pasted away.

This picture is kind of what we were like type wise.
We we attracted to different people not each other.
They had a boyfriend that never showed up.
I was trying to get them to that place they would be happy but sometimes things do not work out as planned.

 

[rainrise]

Hi Fruiteloop, I've a ten min or so on break then came by here which I often don't anymore. I could give some dimes to share thoughtwise. Firstly, yes if they self identify as female, I think it more appropriate to relate to them as female though they do have a Y chromosome biologically. I'm relatively self aware but I was really surprised recently it took me 35 plus years to realize how geared to straightness I had been conditioned to be by school, society, family, even being aware of LGBTQ identities relatively young. I identify as bisexual but I like you have, and I'm not embarrassed to talk on it I just don't want to be misunderstood especially by those who would like to appear progressive for cultural benefit of being more inclusive or whatnot but are not...more on this in another post maybe. No I like you though I don't question my cis gender female identity at all, yet being ok with and knowing of pardonez-moi vous positivists reading I kid, my male past lives, I like you have and am questioning well maybe I really have not know myself that well aka...I'm actually really not attracted to men. I like men, could entertain marrying Gandalf or Merlin but that's about it. Even then not really is suffer emotionally. I'm very feminine though I like personal fitness and am kind of a nerd, men are attracted to me sometimes well the other day to my complete astonishment. I'd say hey you bloke I'm not anything you'd like at all, what's so good about me, look away lol. Ok back on topic, it's because I was honestly counting on hand how many males vs females I've ever liked since kindergarten lol, I liked a female every year sometimes one for years of school and now my life as is. Males...maybe 2?

 

[Fruiteloop]

Some men I do find I have a platonic attraction to but its only because of a personality trait I see in them.

There is this inhibition in men that anything that might be feelings for another man is gay.

In the show King of the Hill Hank Hill says to his father as he is dying i love you dad but then his father says what kind of man says to another man "I loves you" I am ashamed to look at you. Then Hank say ok really i don't love you all panicking and his father then stops his heart beat and plays dead.

Feelings just are a hard subject that men usually are predisposed to be tough and strong and stoic. They fight more because of it because fighting and being in control makes you stronger so anger is a more acceptable thing to do than cry tears.

Its not that women are the opposite in extreme sense where they are weak and cry all the time but feeling their feelings is more acceptable.

Some men as some women have more or less feelings and I get those sometimes. They are not acceptable in ways society has suppressed them in me and I have trouble with depression.

So I have had in a lot of situations just suppressed them around others but I do process them other men would simply reject in themselves and lash out. I do not have such a strong attachment to an identity of being strong in the manly sense where I need to prove it. I understand that in myself I am ok with feelings, they are not bad and I do not diminish others who have them.

It is because I am not rejecting them that I often have a sense how others feel as well.
But because of the less commonality of men that understand feelings that is seen as gay.
I happen to only know such things as I do because I was into girl stuff normal parents would not allow their male children to touch.

I had no problems for example watching the Disney channel with Ariel the little mermaid or keeping my toys nice instead of destroying them most times playing with them. Acting like a girl or just not being adverse to girl related items that could induce a sense of feelings was what made me how I am. I however never ware girl cloths and do not find that appealing. Pink is a good color though and I had many pink things because its cute. I had treasure box's I kept nice things in and as such observed how to take care of things. Feelings being involved its less utilitarian and more about softness. To emphasize such things as Disney's Leolo and Stich, those things I understood at a deeper level than just a movie where characters exist and you do not relate to them. Relatedness is where I believe empathy comes from. So I believe that empathy as understanding others by their feelings not just caring about them is something I have that sets me apart from other men. Its just not something most of them have experience with because of biology and culture.

 

[Fruiteloop]

Me my brother and my roommate kind of had fun together in some ways.

I once solved a problem in my head about his electrical equipment and he said: brain blast

Meaning I was Jimmy Neutron

From that I deduced my roommate was the boy from Meet the Robinsons

I never told them who they were but we both agreed my brother was Mega Mind

These stories all kind of match how we experienced life.

I would watch Dexter's Laboratory allot and tried to make inventions in models and on paper.

My brother made things but never fit in with his class mates or society.

My roommate was an orphan but had great skills with electronics.

Thinking about it I can say we all had great potential and under different conditions would be successful.

Games are fun but as adults you need to make money so what we did could not have the impact it could have.

We were not geniuses we just had talents that presented themself in the wrong environment.

I have all the aspirations to still do something, did not sleep doodling an idea about computer networks.

There will be a day when I make something of myself. I wish the same could have happened for my roommate who passed away.

 

[Quarkmaster]

Okay, I see now that I should not have called you, "Sweetie" in my last post.''

However, having been around MBTI typology for many years, I'm aware that "unaware" male F-types and female T-types have a different role in life to the "tough manly man" or the "tender sweet woman". What I've seen of this in other F-type males is that they ignore the so-called manly man roles they're expected to play and just be themselves. Nothing will have you kicked out of the Stoic'c Club faster than pretending to be one when you're not. For extroverted males, this is a bit easier because no one will mistake you for being gay just because you're a bit on the "emotional side." In fact, this is highly respected. I appreciated the contrast in my male friends who happened to be more feeling.

On the other hand, nothing irritated me more than a Feeling man trying to imitate, "one of us." He runs about, fraudulently pretending to some kind of "tough guy," and luckily gets by without an ass-whoopin' because most other guys pretty much see through that costume, and just tolerate it.

I had a theory once, and I don't know if it's still good. It's about male Feelers and female Thinkers. Each can go one of three directions, I supposed.

For the male Feeler, in order to adapt:

1. Become hyper-effeminate
2. Become hyper-masculine
3. Simply be himself.

For the female Thinker, on order to adapt:

1. Become hyper-effeminate
2. Become hyper-masculine
3. Simply be herself.

We've seen all six of these running around in the world. I don't know if this theory holds or not. It's just my picture of things. We INTPs are fairly theoretical sorts and love to make up theories.

I almost left out; the hyper-effeminate man is the one most T-type men have trouble dealing with. We don't know what to do with people like that. Another one that's hard to deal with is the hyper-masculine woman. I keep wondering if she's going to try to kick my ass, just to prove she's "one of us."

 

[Wyote]

Okay, I see now that I should not have called you, "Sweetie" in my last post.''

It's ok Sweetie, we're all sweeties here

 

[Fruiteloop]

@Quarkmaster

I can see where people try and overcompensate for what they lack sometimes not always.

For me it's not about physical fights but about being reasonable. I have the hardest time with trying to explain myself sometimes and it just does not work out because some people have ingrained opinions that will not change. I am talking about philosophic opinions. I do not care exactly that people feel certain ways but I do care what happens when people cannot agree on basic facts of reality that turn to involving ideological wars. Because one should come to understand what others hold as true or not but also be reasonably without emotions making you hate the other side. Most people come at it as that disagreement means the other side is corrupt ands wrong about everything and should be treated as such. I find that its harder to talk to those people.

So I guess that when it comes to thinking issues I am less involved with making it about what I feel unless other people have something against me and do not care about understanding. Maybe they understand differently but that should come with no harsh judgments I think.

Once people come at you for your views on how reality is then it all comes crashing down to fighting on a personal level not abstract level.

So in the end to me it is all about neutrality.

That is the only way I believe a person can come to some understanding of reality.

I work hard then on separating my feeling from the facts.
When they mix together people become hostile quickly.

To defend oneself or a team people often believe that wrong views must be taken out in some way and I dislike it because then you are not treated as an individual who is capable of changing one's mind but as something else. It becomes obvious to me when this happens.

If I do overcompensate with thinking do to being a Feeling type it comes at me from what people think of me not exactly what I think of them more often. A thinker might not care and say anything the want to say just because its is true to them, I find it hard to say what I think is true sometimes because I often am discussion what is an unknown variable in my understanding but people given that they encounter others on regular basis with firm opinions with treat me as if everything I say is what I believe 100% when its not all the time just because that is how most people are.

Being a tough guy is not what I do but it is also not what I have to do because I do not go around those people who require it.

I'd rather negotiate than fight but by the way I look most people do not want to be knocked out by me if I were to.

I never remember fighting anyone in adulthood as a matter of fact.
I scared this one guy once when I pulled him back from fighting this girl in my house. That is about it.

yes I can tell when people over feminize as men. That shows up in gay people more. I do not do that but I do notice it.

*

Today I watched the movie (Inside out 2) and I almost cried. But because I was in a group I did not. I still feel sad about it.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

Experiences like this is why I often feel that I am just absolutely done with the human experience and interacting with some types is painful at times. This society prefers people to be clones of each other so the bulk of the population is just variations of only a few types while the rest either gets pigeon holed or relegated to the margins.

 

[Krypton]

What makes someone masculine or feminine in your view?

 

[Fruiteloop]

What makes someone masculine or feminine in your view?

presentation

it feels one way or another but I would not know how to describe it simply

I once made a list of dichotomies between the traits of masculine and feminine but I forgot them it was long ago

 

[mind pilot ENTP]

What makes someone masculine or feminine in your view?

tough one
i'll speak in as polarised terms as possible to avoid offence

if im a macho man straight as a ruler no doubt i am what the majority call a "man"
let say one day im jumping over a fence and i accidently chop off my reproductive and waist disposal equipment....am i still a "man"

?????
consider that part/s of our body adds up to 0.02 percent of overall mass

now for a stir .....lets represent mankind with letters ;-XXXy ...would anyone care to do the math for me so as to extrapolate the percentage of gender biological dominance here on terraphobia akas earth

 

[mind pilot ENTP]

edit

What makes someone masculine or feminine in your view?

tough one
i'll speak in as polarised terms as possible to avoid offence

if im a macho man straight as a ruler no doubt i am what the majority call a "man"
let say one day im jumping over a fence and i accidently chop off my reproductive and waist disposal equipment....am i still a "man"

?????
consider that part/s of our body adds up to 0.02 percent of overall mass

now for a stir .....lets represent mankind with letters ;-XXXy ...would anyone care to do the math for me so as to extrapolate the percentage of gender biological dominance here on terraphobia akas earth

sex is for procreation and secondarily for recreation ...what else is it for ?

oh yeah ...our junk,male and female is made of the same stuff just arranged in the way evolution manifested

a man MUST reach climax in order to procreate
a woman doesn't have to ,her recreational use is independent of her procreative destiny/program/fate/choice

this imo would make men sperm donors in service of incubators, and ,as there is NO evolutionary advantage to having ones procreation equipment sticking out 4 to 10 inches in front of them ,i contend that men are then expendable capacitively to women making women the main template for the perpetuity of humans XXXy . look into androgen reception and how it determines the alpha or beta men in the formation of men from foetuses , one way to look at it could be ....cause the template to make and receive more testosterone
so they grow big dum and hairy ,kill stuff and jump in front of rinos for the "template maintenance division /women:

 

[aeon]

What makes someone masculine or feminine in your view?

The dimorphic secondary sex characteristics which present at post-pubescence.

Beyond that, nothing else.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[mind pilot ENTP]

Just kiss him already.

The dimorphic secondary sex characteristics which present at post-pubescence.

Beyond that, nothing else.

Cheers,
Ian

two sides of the same coin ,multi faceted "in our likeness we shall make man and women" genesis"

 

[Quarkmaster]

What makes someone masculine or feminine in your view?

Huh. I thought I already clarified this. Perhaps not.

I thought that maybe defining one and saying that, "the other is not this" might be a workable answer to this. But it is ended with, "in your view." So the question asks for an opinion, not an answer or a truth. So I could just say anything.

I think it really comes out in the personality, and how we interface (or socialize) with other people (or animals, or even things). The masculine form tends to rationalize everything in his/her environment, and so looks upon everything with that analytic, logic and reason.

The feminine form, although I'm probably not qualified to analyze this, is more than likely everything that the rational is not. Well, maybe not everything, but you certainly won't find any stoics among them. I've seen F-types attempt in the movies to play stoics and rationals, and they consistently get it wrong.

For example, in the TV series, Big Bang Theory, the actor, Jim Parsons, who is a effeminate gay man in real life, attempts to play the role of Sheldon Cooper, a rational, INTP (a theorist), and while he plays well the role of "high maintenance" sort, which INTPs may tend to be (I know I'm high maintenance, and very unreasonable at times, which frustrates many of my friends), the gay "lilt" in his voice and mannerisms give him away as not a "true INTP", and certainly not a true rational, and very much NOT a stoic (which groups tend to be made up of NTs, and more likely INTs). I suspect that, in real life, Jim Parsons is an ENFP.

Johnny Galecki plays Leonard Hofstadter, in this scenario, an INTJ, an experimentalist, but Johnny seems to fall into the role pretty well. His "masculine qualities" are very well defined as he plays through his role as a working scientist, even though he seems to recognize his own plight as a nerd, while most nerds do not. He is very stoic throughout the series, although, as would most stoics, he has moments when he, "loses it", which we all find hilarious. This happens in real life too.

Mayim Bialik, who plays Amy Farrah Fowler, is an actual scientist, a neuroscientist, most likely an INTJ, or plays an INTJ (experimentalist, with a laboratory and everything) very well, although in many instances, opposite a romantic thing with Sheldon, ironically, ideally suited for mating with an ENFP, often gets a bit overburdened in the role when she is asked to play the doting girlfriend, which no INTJ would stoop to in real life. A man will be interested or he will not, and if he is not, then an INTJ woman will walk away and not bother.

It's notable that a nearly ideal relationship evolves between INTJ Leonard Hofstadter, and ESFP Penny (no last name), two personality types that would be ideal together. This may be the only more realistic relationship that develops. The more hideous is the one between INTJ Amy Farrah Fowler and INTP Sheldon Cooper, which I find to be a bit disgusting. Here are two rationals, lying in bed together. Ick.

Jim Parsons does play the Sheldon Cooper role very well when he points out uncomfortable, and often embarrassing, social facts in groups without the slightest notion about the social implications and reverberations, which is something INTPs do without hesitation. For example, at a dinner table he once estimated Penny's total "body count", based on the number of men who had come through Penny's apartment, daily, weekly and annually, which embarrassed and even surprised Penny, who had never thought of just how many men she'd slept with. It would be a simple calculation for an INTP, no calculators needed.

I've found myself in similar situations many times. Saying the wrong thing at the wrong time. Perhaps I'm doing it now. And have no clue that anything's wrong.

So perhaps these personal opinions, complete with examples that everyone can relate to, will help to clarify the differences between masculine and feminine.