Love? | INFJ Forum

Love?

Agapooka

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Mar 7, 2011
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How would you define love?

I am not talking about the relationships between people per se. More specifically, I am asking: which qualities must something have for it to qualify as "love"?

Essentially, is there a pattern among all the relationships that have been described as love in the past? Can the topic be simplified to a rule whereby one can distinguish between love and the absence of love?

What is the opposite of love?

I have my own theory that can be summed up in two lines, but I do not wish to influence the responses to this thread just yet. I will post it when others have posted their ideas.


Agapooka
 
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Ah, but why is it a trait? Is it always an indicator of love?

I can be concerned for the wellbeing of the courier who must travel to me to bring me something of value to me. I can be concerned for the wellbeing of someone, because they will be a liability to me if they are unwell. I can be concerned for someone's wellbeing for many reasons...
 
What is love?

it's mutual and self sustaining . . . and protective


what is not love?

selfish imposition of wants or needs
failure to consider the thoughts or feelings of anyone else
putting oneself first
 
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Are we talking about all forms of love here?

We are talking about the concept of love.

If there are different forms of it or the nuances that distinguish these forms is irrelevant for the time being, because the purpose is to identify what they should all have in common in order to classify as "love".


Agapooka
 
What is love?

it's mutual and self sustaining . . . and protective


what is not love?

selfish imposition of wants or needs
failure to consider the thoughts or feelings of anyone else
putting oneself first

If I compare to my theory, this is on the right track, but still, the question remains: why? Why is love self-sustaining, mutual, protective and why is it not a selfish imposition of wants or needs? Do we distinguish between love and not love based on the effect that it has on others? What are the implications of the expression "give and take"?

Yeah, like the love of pie?

Hmm. I'd argue that this isn't another form of love so much as it is a different definition of love. This definition expresses the concept of "enjoy", whereas I lack a more specific term than "love" to refer to the concept that I wish to discuss. Perhaps such a term exists?


Agapooka
 
I think there are different degrees of love.

I think 2 people love each other when 10, 20, 30 years on they still can't take being apart from their lover for a long amount of time.
Love is caring, appreciating and respecting the individual concerned. It is forgiving this person's faults and mistakes, being willing enough to want to work through any issues between the two.
 
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I just don't see how you can really measure or define love in anyway. What love is for me might not be what it is for someone else, if i was to define love in anyway I would consider it generic.
 
If I compare to my theory, this is on the right track, but still, the question remains: why? Why is love self-sustaining, mutual, protective and why is it not a selfish imposition of wants or needs? Do we distinguish between love and not love based on the effect that it has on others? What are the implications of the expression "give and take"?

Agapooka

YAY! i got it right :D *i think*. It is self sustaining because it is involuntary . . . to some degree. Love is a choice, yes, but it reall isn't in another sense. Something which is naturally chosen, without force, has a tendency to support itself because there is a compulsion behind it - there's a need to feed or fuel the interest or want it creates in the person or couple which is what makes it self sustaining. It is consensual.

Love can have an effect on those who don't return the love, but the mutual feelings of love imply that there's at least, in theory, a slight dependence by both partners on the other for that "feeling". The need to give of oneself in specific ways to this person without holding back is a gift.

I think give and take can't take the place of love, although many will say it does. Give and take are consequences of love, not justifications for love. I know many will disagree with this, but this is why I say this.

Love , in theory, should be free. It should allow the person to give love without feeling indebted or obligated to give because someone has given. It wants to give voluntarily without constraints.
 
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I will post my theory. I apologise in advance for the fact that I express it almost mathematically...

First and foremost, I contrast Love with Evil. Both of these are forces:

Love is a connective (creates connection) and constructive force.
Evil is a separative (creates separation) and destructive force.

Unlike, the yin-yang, there is no equilibrium between Love (good) and Evil - they are completely incompatible. Each, however, *is* a dualistic force. Both Love and Evil have an active force and a passive force. Both of Love and Evil have a force that is oriented towards the Self (inward) and a force that is oriented away from the Self (outward).

To summarise in two lines:


  1. Love has an active outward force (giving) and a passive inward force (receiving).
  2. Evil has a passive outward force (guilt-giving) and an active inward force (taking).

Notice how the only difference is a polarity reversal.

* Giving is an active outward force, because the flow of energy is extended away from Self and because this movement is initiated by Self.
* Receiving is a passive inward force, because the flow of energy is extended towards Self and because this movement is not initiated by Self.
* Guilt-giving is a passive outward force, because the flow of energy is extended away from Self and because this movement is not initiated by Self.
* Taking is an active inward force, because the flow of energy is extended towards Self and because this movement is initiated by Self.

What are the implications of this?

What is the difference between receiving and taking? My question concerning "give and take" was a trick question, because taking is incompatible with Love. The ability to give, however, relies on the ability to receive.

I wanted to create a contrast between giving and a passive equivalent of an outward force, but I failed to find a word in our language for such a concept. "Giving" out of guilt is, however, an example of giving passively. It is done because the motivation to do so comes from the outside. It is motivated and therefore initiated by the outside world. Being the victim of a taker falls into this category, because we are thereby robbed of energy (a broad word), and the taker has initiated this movement of energy towards him/herself. I call the passive equivalent of giving "guilt-giving", but it is in no way limited to situations when guilt is the motivational or initiating force. Note that an expectation constitutes an outside motivational force. Expecting something of someone is a form of taking.

The assumptions and effects of each dichotomy (Love and Evil, respectively) are notable.

Love assumes infinite energy and because it is giving AND receiving perpetually, the energy is always in motion and distributed perfectly; it is continuous. This continuity creates connections. Also, because the initiating force of giving is Self (giving is active), it is not based on commitments, promises and expectations. Love is beautiful because it exists in the present and it is perpetuated by itself. It cannot be coerced into existence. It is therefore inherently spontaneous and in the present. Note the difference between the statements:

"I take care of you because it is something that I desire to do for you." (present tense + spontaneity)
"I take care of you because I agreed to do so in the past." (past tense + agreement/expectation)


Evil, for lack of a better word, assumes finite energy. One takes because one believes they will either run out or that they can control a limited resource. An infinite resource cannot be controlled. As such, attempts are made to trap the energy and prevent it from motion. The energy becomes stagnant. It only enters motion when another can persuade or force it towards themselves, so that they can hoard it. This discontinuity creates separation. Whereas Love distributes energy through continuity and connectivity, Evil must do so through dependence and bondage. It fears spontaneity and seeks to control energy flow through coercion and contract.


Agapooka
 
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I like the idea of love being undefinable.

It's like no human could ever touch it, dirty it up, fake it, destroy it.

Love is love.
That's about as close as we will ever get.
 
I will post my theory. I apologise in advance for the fact that I express it almost mathematically...

First and foremost, I contrast Love with Evil. Both of these are forces:

Love is a connective (creates connection) and constructive force.
Evil is a separative (creates separation) and destructive force.

Unlike, the yin-yang, there is no equilibrium between Love (good) and Evil - they are completely incompatible. Each, however, *is* a dualistic force. Both Love and Evil have an active force and a passive force. Both of Love and Evil have a force that is oriented towards the Self (inward) and a force that is oriented away from the Self (outward).

To summarise in two lines:


  1. Love has an active outward force (giving) and a passive inward force (receiving).
  2. Evil has a passive outward force (guilt-giving) and an active inward force (taking).

Notice how the only difference is a polarity reversal.

* Giving is an active outward force, because the flow of energy is extended away from Self and because this movement is initiated by Self.
* Receiving is a passive inward force, because the flow of energy is extended towards Self and because this movement is not initiated by Self.
* Guilt-giving is a passive outward force, because the flow of energy is extended away from Self and because this movement is not initiated by Self.
* Taking is an active inward force, because the flow of energy is extended towards Self and because this movement is initiated by Self.

What are the implications of this?

What is the difference between receiving and taking? My question concerning "give and take" was a trick question, because taking is incompatible with Love. The ability to give, however, relies on the ability to receive.

I wanted to create a contrast between giving and a passive equivalent of an outward force, but I failed to find a word in our language for such a concept. "Giving" out of guilt is, however, an example of giving passively. It is done because the motivation to do so comes from the outside. It is motivated and therefore initiated by the outside world. Being the victim of a taker falls into this category, because we are thereby robbed of energy (a broad word), and the taker has initiated this movement of energy towards him/herself. I call the passive equivalent of giving "guilt-giving", but it is in no way limited to situations when guilt is the motivational or initiating force. Note that an expectation constitutes an outside motivational force. Expecting something of someone is a form of taking.

The assumptions and effects of each dichotomy (Love and Evil, respectively) are notable.

Love assumes infinite energy and because it is giving AND receiving perpetually, the energy is always in motion and distributed perfectly; it is continuous. This continuity creates connections. Also, because the initiating force of giving is Self (giving is active), it is not based on commitments, promises and expectations. Love is beautiful because it exists in the present and it is perpetuated by itself. It cannot be coerced into existence. It is therefore inherently spontaneous and in the present. Note the difference between the statements:

"I take care of you because it is something that I desire to do for you." (present tense + spontaneity)
"I take care of you because I agreed to do so in the past." (past tense + agreement/expectation)


Evil, for lack of a better word, assumes finite energy. One takes because one believes they will either run out or that they can control a limited resource. An infinite resource cannot be controlled. As such, attempts are made to trap the energy and prevent it from motion. The energy becomes stagnant. It only enters motion when another can persuade or force it towards themselves, so that they can hoard it. This discontinuity creates separation. Whereas Love distributes energy through continuity and connectivity, Evil must do so through dependence and bondage. It fears spontaneity and seeks to control energy flow through coercion and contract.


Agapooka

You wrote that 'it can be summed up in two lines.' : D I'm gonna read and react to it later, now I'm in a hurry just posting my view.

Anyway:

I think the best part of falling in love is the fact that something inside you
 
To summarise in two lines:


  1. Love has an active outward force (giving) and a passive inward force (receiving).
  2. Evil has a passive outward force (guilt-giving) and an active inward force (taking).
I only need one line

Love is respect, not exploitation.

:m027:


DEUS CARITAS EST
 
[MENTION=3821]Agapooka[/MENTION] Hey! you didn't respond to my response to your question? :D
 
I was going to reply specifically to it, but I realised that everything that I would need to say in order to do so would go into detail on my theory, so I just shared it. ;)
 
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