Logical Fallacies

Two questions;
Will you be posting them here, or was this thread just an announcement?
Why?

How many questions would you say that I asked?
 
LOL.... Prepare for people to get pissed... I do it to posters all the time.
 
subwayrider said:
From now on, my time on this forum will be solely dedicated to pointing out the logical fallacies members make-- including my own. :m145:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

Use these tools well. Enjoy your future debates and discussions!
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The problem with the whole logical fallacy argument is that it discounts some of the enormous strengths of emotionally based thought.

It makes no room for synchronicity, for example, which typically occurs in times of need, when no apparent solution is available. The odds of synchronicity occurring are next to impossible, so they cannot be imagined in any logical way. It also typically makes no room for psi, where "Knowing" comes right out of the blue. There is nothing logical about psi.

The people who are most likely to be able to take advantage of these extra sensory talents are, by nature, wired to think constantly outside the box. That would be the INFJ's on this forum. (me inlcuded btw.) If you understand that their lack of logic will normally provide the most successful outcome for them, -against all odds- because of who they are and the talents the possess, you'll be able to cut them some slack.
 
I think this thread will be awesome for NT types...but maybe not so much for NF types.
 
Craig Weiler said:
The problem with the whole logical fallacy argument is that it discounts some of the enormous strengths of emotionally based thought.
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Emotionally based thought is one thing but emotionally based arguments are another. If you disregard logical conclusions because you "feel" a certain way, you're effectively cutting yourself off from reasoning and are becoming close-minded.

It makes no room for synchronicity, for example, which typically occurs in times of need, when no apparent solution is available. The odds of synchronicity occurring are next to impossible, so they cannot be imagined in any logical way. It also typically makes no room for psi, where "Knowing" comes right out of the blue. There is nothing logical about psi.

The people who are most likely to be able to take advantage of these extra sensory talents are, by nature, wired to think constantly outside the box. That would be the INFJ's on this forum. (me inlcuded btw.) If you understand that their lack of logic will normally provide the most successful outcome for them, -against all odds- because of who they are and the talents the possess, you'll be able to cut them some slack.
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I'm going to ignore the elitist statement in bold.

Psi thinking, as I understand it, is some sort of super intuition. Really, these intuitive conclusions can be right at times but that doesn't mean you have a superpower. Unless you can actually explain something and understand how it works, it probably doesn't exist. "I just know because I'm an intuitive" is a load of crap.
 
Emotionally based thought is one thing but emotionally based arguments are another. If you disregard logical conclusions because you "feel" a certain way, you're effectively cutting yourself off from reasoning and are becoming close-minded.
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Not necessarily. Highly intuitive people often get valuable information through how they feel about something. Logic and reasoning are necessarily based on available information, and that can only take you so far. For example, if an intuitive gets a bad feeling about a job they've been offered, even though everything they know about the job seems like it will be a good one, they should turn it down. Logically, you can't really know how it's going to turn out until you've committed yourself. So, feelings would be more important information in this case.

Most situations in life are like this. You don't have all the available information, so you go with your gut. That will generally be a successful strategy for feeling based people.

I'm going to ignore the elitist statement in bold.
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It's not elitist. People who have higher than average ESP are almost always very creative types who think outside the box. It's just a talent set with positive and negative attributes. It's one of many and not better or worse than the others.

Psi thinking, as I understand it, is some sort of super intuition. Really, these intuitive conclusions can be right at times but that doesn't mean you have a superpower. Unless you can actually explain something and understand how it works, it probably doesn't exist. "I just know because I'm an intuitive" is a load of crap.
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Psi is not a superpower, I never claimed it was. The claim is simply that people who are feeling based, particularly INFJ's, typically have higher than average ESP and will be far more successful than average at using feeling based solutions to problems in their lives.

As for the part I've put in bold. Please reconsider that statement. It is demonstrably false. No one knows or understands how quantum physics works, but no one would claim that it doesn't exist.
 
Craig Weiler said:
It is demonstrably false. No one knows or understands how quantum physics works, but no one would claim that it doesn't exist.
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Nonsense, it's quite plain that the universe is simply playing a mathematical game of chance which alters when observed mostly to do with issues of mass versus wave interaction. It's not intuitive, but it's logically coherent.
 
My third eye is telling me that you are wrong,

Therefore, you are wrong, and you can't ever know anything about my third eye so don't even try to refute my argument, just accept that you are wrong.
 
InvisibleJim said:
Nonsense, it's quite plain that the universe is simply playing a mathematical game of chance which alters when observed mostly to do with issues of mass versus wave interaction. It's not intuitive, but it's logically coherent.
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I'm intrigued how you have picked apart the very nature of reality itself Jim!

Can you please break this down logically for me so that i can understand every stage of this process as your comment seems a little vague! But please refrain from using your intuition.....i want a logical explanation please!

I am of course teasing! Why does matter behave differently when observed? WHY?

Craig i think you raise some interesting points!
 
muir said:
I'm intrigued how you have picked apart the very nature of reality itself Jim!

Can you please break this down logically for me so that i can understand every stage of this process as your comment seems a little vague! But please refrain from using your intuition.....i want a logical explanation please!

I am of course teasing! Why does matter behave differently when observed? WHY?

Craig i think you raise some interesting points!
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Because matter is both wave and mass superimposed from a higher dimension. It can be observed to behave so therefore it is logical to acknowledge that our observation locks the mass/wave state.

It is illogical to deny it simply because we cannot observe extra-dimensional behaviour with our limited abilities!
 
InvisibleJim said:
Because matter is both wave and mass superimposed from a higher dimension. It can be observed to behave so therefore it is logical to acknowledge that our observation locks the mass/wave state.

It is illogical to deny it simply because we cannot observe extra-dimensional behaviour with our limited abilities!
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I'm not sure you're touching on the really interesting part: why?
 
muir said:
What do you mean 'why not'?
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There doesn't need to be a why, motive can be so abstract that we cannot fathom it.
 
InvisibleJim said:
Because matter is both wave and mass superimposed from a higher dimension. It can be observed to behave so therefore it is logical to acknowledge that our observation locks the mass/wave state.

It is illogical to deny it simply because we cannot observe extra-dimensional behaviour with our limited abilities!
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You say this with such certainty, but having read a few books on quantum physics, I know that your answer has no basis in experimental evidence. There is no proof of any dimensions other than the four we're already aware of. It is illogical to state something as fact when it is not.

The very best proof for the observer effect comes from a very recent study by senior researcher at IONS, Dean Radin. The results haven't been published yet, but he put a brief synopsis on his blog:
http://deanradin.blogspot.com/2012/01/consciousness-and-double-slit.html

To the surprise of no one except die hard materialists, it looks like consciousness is the cause of the observer effect. The trouble is, no one knows exactly what consciousness is. Neuroscience doesn't have the answer. They have no idea how you get from firing neurons to happiness. They understand what the body and mind do in many conscious states, but not how you get from something material, to something immaterial.

To further the problem, consciousness happens to be pretty important to us. There is no way to experience the world without it. It's not a trivial matter.

And one more thing: Little technical point here: Matter doesn't change when it's observed, it doesn't exist until it's observed. The wave that InvisibleJim is talking about is actually a wave function, (a.k.a. a probability cloud.) It isn't a "thing" until it's observed.
 
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