Ladies: even made men the center of your world? How did you overcome it? | INFJ Forum

Ladies: even made men the center of your world? How did you overcome it?

Artemisia

Artemisia

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May 20, 2014
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For a long time I believed that a relationship with a man would make me whole.....because that's what society feeds us. Since my teenage years, it seemed that I lacked something and that was an idealized version of a romantic relationship with a man. As a result, I have been disappointed by the men I've dated quite a bit.

At age 32, I have come to a realization. No one can make me happy but myself. No man is going to be there for me all the time and I should not be obsessing about the state of my relationship or lack thereof.

The problem though is that I feel I have the potential to go in the opposite direction altogether and not give a damn about men at all. And when I usually don't give a damn, that means that I am not into the guy.

My question to you INFJ ladies is: have you ever felt like men were the center of your universe? How did you/did not overcome this? At what age did you realize that this was a false notion of happiness?
 
I would not say that i put specifically men at the center of my universe, but I am guilty of putting someone at the center of my universe. I am always worried about everyone else, and I prefer to have one person to put my effort into. It's usually been men. but since my divorce its been whoever will give me their attention for whatever amount of time. though ive been through a few different relationships in my short 2 years of being single. people dont usually like being someones entire life.
 
"People don't usually like being someone's entire life." You nailed it, Angela. No, I'm not a female, but men can be as guilty of this as women (I'm painfully living proof), although probably less frequently. The trap, for me, was assuming the person I was with would want me to be their entire life ... and that I'd be OK with that. I still get self-seduced into idealized thinking that I could mean as much to someone else as they could mean to me. I understand that's not healthy, but I still go through the battle of head versus heart. Lately, fortunately, after one too many disappointments, my head has been winning the battle.
 
Wow. I didn't fully realize that this is what I was doing with someone until I read this post. Ouch. Guess I need to give them some space ....
 
I am still a baby but I realized at the age of 18 that I seriously develope strong emotions for a guy. At first I hated everything about him from his cockiness to his charming attitude. Over time I learn to appreciate his passion and intensity in away no one else observed. Assuming that he was loved by everyone it turned out that his attitude was a bit much for anyone. Although I notice he was into me I never gave him the time of day. If only he knew the amount of attention I gave him in my mind. I became so distracted that I gradually started procrastinating. So what I had to do was to meditate on all the negative things about him rather than the other way around.

I have never had that feeling of being dependent on the opposite sex to be satisfied YET but I do have that "I don't give a damn" attitude toward guys in general.
 
I fault these damn romantic comedies/movies that come out every year! Lol!
If it wasn't for these stories, people would be content by themselves!

Then you have old-fashioned parents/grandparents who want to see you settled. Don't they know the world doesn't work that anymore? All importance is placed in status and money and selfies. *chills*
No one cares about being authentic or vulnerable because no one generally cares.

It's just something out of a movie that they felt obligated to experience: romance.
 
I don't think this is a black and white issue. If you are secure in yourself, it won't be a bother to give someone that attention. The key of course, is to give to someone who earned it, deserves it, and appreciates it. It doesn't make someone less independent or more needy, or whatever anyone wants to call it. Nothing has to be wrong with you. Some people simply like lavishing that attention on their partners. It does something to be that giving or nurturing in that way. It can be fulfilling. Again, the issue is whether that way of showing love is compatible with the partner. If a partner doesn't like that kind of attention, and it makes them uncomfortable, but both love each other, then there can be some compromises. If both make an effort to understand each other and accommodate some of the preferences of each when showing attention and affection, then they will both benefit from the intensity this has to offer the relationship. Each just has to be willing to engage in a little give and take.
 
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For a long time I always thought I just wanted someone to "take care of me." He would be my everything and I would be his everything, our relationship would be an island onto itself, separate and sacred from the rest of the world. Once that happened (and I am still happily married to my soulmate), I realized there is more to life than picking up your darling's dry cleaning and making cupcakes. I started to really examine what I wanted out of life to make me feel complete. It wasn't kids. It wasn't a new hobby. It wasn't lots of material things. It was a career, somewhere to go during the day where I felt I was doing something meaningful. Ding ding! From there it led to me examining my options with my current education. Really casting off my false selves acquired in a desire to impress and please other people...and I wasn't happy with the options in front of me. So now, at 38, I find myself at a community college studying the rudimentary elements of something totally new. So long as the mind and body don't give out, it's never too late for a new start, new goals, new dreams and new achievements. Never too late to find yourself outside the perspective of being someone's everything.
 
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I'm not sure society is entirely to blame for feelings related to dependency because as children we are born helpless and entirely dependent on our parents or others for survival. That process has a hand in our socialization and our language development and, as we age and grow, we develop our independence to various degrees. We also return to a more dependent status as our senescence escalates in step with societies' ability to maintain or lengthen our lifespan. It's interesting as to how sex, gender, and society differentiate our roles and feelings of dependency on others.
 
I am not completely out of that mindset myself, however it has reached the inner depths of me and now I understand what it is for myself.

I have made every guy that I was with in a long term relationship my entire world, perhaps due to my introverted nature, I have a hard time connecting with a lot of people at once (it almost feels overwhelming to do). There was a time in my life that I just gave up on even being with a man and for a while there was pretty extroverted, it was fun but it didn't last when the next guy came along.

I have learned the hard way recently that sometimes wanting to be with someone else on such a deep level for me was just that fear of being lonely. Not so much depending on them to support me, but really just wanting to feel connected on a deeper level.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with that, but the only way it would work is if both people are on that same level of connection, and at the same time willing to allow the space each other needs as well as opening up both their worlds to exploring themselves among it all. Haven't found that yet but hope one day I will and that this isn't just a delusion I am feeding myself.
 
See I come back to this. The movie " how to lose a guy in 10 days" is my motto I guess. I was talking to a guy, we agreed to start seeing each other about 3 weeks ago. About a week ago we were talking about Halloween costumes and I agreed to make a specialty tutu for his daughter. Something I love to do, and would save him about $100. Yesterday I finally got the chance to get to the store, I was having a hard time deciding on the colors. I pulled up Facebook messenger to see if he'd been online yet, as I didn't want to wake him up, and glaring me in the face, he unfriended me. No explanation, no nothing. I can't say for sure I was too clingy with this one. In 3 weeks we only hung out 3 times, but would text all day back and forth.
 
I think it's weird that the media and traditional ideas tell women that there's an ideal image of a doting wife and some dude with flowers stirring up a romantic whirlwind together. That can exist, but from what I've seen that's the very rare exception rather than the rule. Most men don't condone that kind of relationship. Many men who fantasize about it at some point in their lives seem to also drop such idealistic notions once they find themselves or try it out for a bit and realize that they as people don't mesh with those ideas or that type of lifestyle.

The reality is that you need time, skills, a place in society, common goals, and a steady source of income in order to sustain a relationship. Men have been conditioned by society to always be tuned in to this reality. You are free to make someone your entire world and work out those conditions between the two of you in whichever way you want. However, if a woman can sustain her independence, or at least remain aware of such external realities of circumstances, it takes off a lot of joint pressure.
 
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Angela said:
See I come back to this. The movie " how to lose a guy in 10 days" is my motto I guess. I was talking to a guy, we agreed to start seeing each other about 3 weeks ago. About a week ago we were talking about Halloween costumes and I agreed to make a specialty tutu for his daughter. Something I love to do, and would save him about $100. Yesterday I finally got the chance to get to the store, I was having a hard time deciding on the colors. I pulled up Facebook messenger to see if he'd been online yet, as I didn't want to wake him up, and glaring me in the face, he unfriended me. No explanation, no nothing. I can't say for sure I was too clingy with this one. In 3 weeks we only hung out 3 times, but would text all day back and forth.
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The texting every day back and forth does sound a bit clingy, but him unfriending you is a jerk move. There are lots of guys out there with mental health issues. And I am telling you, when I sense that a guy has such issues, his exes tend to confirm it. Many of these people act the same with every romantic prospect they meet.

I recently suspected that a guy I was dating was ADHD and had mental health issues. He didn't reply for three days when I told him that my mom has cancer and was vulnerable with him. I dropped him, of course, but I also talked to his ex from 6 years ago (a good friend of mine). She said he acted the same way with her and that he is butt crazy, not to mention that his dad and brother have a criminal record in their country. I also found out that this guy tells the same bullshit to all women he dates during the first month ("I want to marry you and have a child"). Once he realises he is "in", he starts acting weird. I dodged a bullet there....and quickly.

My point is that there are a lot of guys (and women) out there who have mental health and other issues that have nothing to do with you. It has been my experience that decent guys treat women decently, even if they don't want to be with them.
 
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And Angela, if that is you in the photo, you are a beautiful woman. I am also around your age and I can tell you that there are many, many normal guys out there who would love to date you.

Another thing I've learned through my dating experiences. Never give gifts to guys you are dating for a few months and don't volunteer to make anything for them. They see it as putting too much effort. The same can be said for professors and bosses. I don't give these guys X-mas gifts anymore.
 
Artemisia said:
And Angela, if that is you in the photo, you are a beautiful woman. I am also around your age and I can tell you that there are many, many normal guys out there who would love to date you.

Another thing I've learned through my dating experiences. Never give gifts to guys you are dating for a few months and don't volunteer to make anything for them. They see it as putting too much effort. The same can be said for professors and bosses. I don't give these guys X-mas gifts anymore.
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That is me, Thank you very much for the compliment. It is very nice to get them. So I was never the one to initiate the texting, i waited for him to text first. I rarely text first. I dont like interfering with peoples lives. I knew I shouldnt have offered to make his daughter's halloween costume, but I really wanted to. My son is only 2 and i cant seem to get creative for him. but when it comes to little girls, I have a wealth of knowledge, and am crafty, so I like making things for girls. I've just been single since my son's birth. Well technically the divorce is just over a year, but my husband left right when my son was born. I am not good at being alone. However, I am tired of being hurt.

I understand that guys pull the same shit with girls over and over, from 1 to another. It's what my ex husband did, as soon as I had a kid, he left, just like all his exes before me. I never worried about that happening, because i wasnt supposed to be able to have kids, so for 9 years we were fine. I dated a guy for a short time at the end of last year, and he also left me for another girl, who he left her for another girl, and then another girl, and another girl. And now he is trying to get my attention again.
 
Angela said:
I understand that guys pull the same shit with girls over and over, from 1 to another. It's what my ex husband did, as soon as I had a kid, he left, just like all his exes before me. I never worried about that happening, because i wasnt supposed to be able to have kids, so for 9 years we were fine. I dated a guy for a short time at the end of last year, and he also left me for another girl, who he left her for another girl, and then another girl, and another girl. And now he is trying to get my attention again.
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Yep, it is a pattern and if we are aware, we can spot it early on and not get emotionally involved. I was hung up on a dude for three months who wanted an online sexting relationship. He would text naughty stuff every day until I realized that this guy is probably texting 5-10 other women at the same time.

I always disliked it when my dad advised me to inquire about the dudes I am dating (because that's what people did back then). Now I think he was right all along. Use Facebook and your connections for such things. I kid you not....I did a search of past FB posts of the guy I was recently dating and lo and behold, from 2013, he had commented on something a girl wrote with "I want to marry you and have a child". FB and my friend (his ex) confirmed to me what I suspected all along, that this guy feeds the same BS to all women he dates.

The good thing about realizing this is that you don't fall for similar bullshit in the future. And you appreciate men who are honest from the beginning about what it is they want. It's like, OK, so you don't want a relationship, that's fine. Just don't pretend otherwise.
 
Artemisia said:
Yep, it is a pattern and if we are aware, we can spot it early on and not get emotionally involved. I was hung up on a dude for three months who wanted an online sexting relationship. He would text naughty stuff every day until I realized that this guy is probably texting 5-10 other women at the same time.

I always disliked it when my dad advised me to inquire about the dudes I am dating (because that's what people did back then). Now I think he was right all along. Use Facebook and your connections for such things. I kid you not....I did a search of past FB posts of the guy I was recently dating and lo and behold, from 2013, he had commented on something a girl wrote with "I want to marry you and have a child". FB and my friend (his ex) confirmed to me what I suspected all along, that this guy feeds the same BS to all women he dates.

The good thing about realizing this is that you don't fall for similar bullshit in the future. And you appreciate men who are honest from the beginning about what it is they want. It's like, OK, so you don't want a relationship, that's fine. Just don't pretend otherwise.
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This recent guy, I tried to find something. His Facebook didnt seem to have any crazy women on it, any strange posts. it seemed that what he told me, of him and his kids mom divorced 5 years ago, he had custody of the kids, and he had only dated 1 woman in between. It all seemed to check out. But when we first became facebook friends, he only had 67 friends, now he has over 200. Most of them women. So most likely, he was still looking for someone "better" and he feels he found someone. I just wish he would've been honest from the beginning. I do not understand deception.
 
Angela said:
This recent guy, I tried to find something. His Facebook didnt seem to have any crazy women on it, any strange posts. it seemed that what he told me, of him and his kids mom divorced 5 years ago, he had custody of the kids, and he had only dated 1 woman in between. It all seemed to check out. But when we first became facebook friends, he only had 67 friends, now he has over 200. Most of them women. So most likely, he was still looking for someone "better" and he feels he found someone. I just wish he would've been honest from the beginning. I do not understand deception.
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Yeah, it takes a while to figure things out, but less and less time the more experience you have in these things. The problem is that many of these guys have an abundance mentality, and if we as women develop that ("there are many, many men I could be dating"), life would be easier. At least if you end up in a lot of these types of situations, you begin to take men and romance off the pedestal. This combined with an abundance attitude is probably the best way to go.
 
Angela said:
now he has over 200. Most of them women. So most likely, he was still looking for someone "better" and he feels he found someone.
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Seems like he wants a harem. The abundance mentality at play again.
 
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