ISIS are branding Christians | Page 6 | INFJ Forum

ISIS are branding Christians

Much more accurate figures...
 
Ok so can someone please tell me why ISIS...a bunch of 'islamic extremists' keep getting hold of cutting edge US technology and weapons?

Also can you please explain to me why a bunch of muslim extremists have not attacked Israel?

Surely that would be target number 1?

Where was it, I saw a video on this...? I honestly can't remember, but it summed it up rather nicely. The whole thing is just a huge disaster.




We went to war with a country that actually had no "WMD" to destabilize a secular, albeit brutal, government to send weapons to a poorly trained military that we then abandoned. While at the same time, we refused to arm rebels in Syria for fear that the-now ISIS group would get a hold of, who, was then able to get a foothold on some poorly defended cities along the Syrian border. They then crossed the border to Iraq, where the poorly trained, well-armed army fled, leaving all of our weapons behind for ISIS to claim. We're now unofficially declaring war on the SIS group, to destroy the weapons we allowed them to get, but didn't want them to get, since we didn't arm the people who actually would have fought against them and we overthrew the government that wouldn't have allowed them in to begin with.

It's a cluster-fuck of epic proportions caused by, you guessed it! 'Murica!
 
Where was it, I saw a video on this...? I honestly can't remember, but it summed it up rather nicely. The whole thing is just a huge disaster.




We went to war with a country that actually had no "WMD" to destabilize a secular, albeit brutal, government to send weapons to a poorly trained military that we then abandoned. While at the same time, we refused to arm rebels in Syria for fear that the-now ISIS group would get a hold of, who, was then able to get a foothold on some poorly defended cities along the Syrian border. They then crossed the border to Iraq, where the poorly trained, well-armed army fled, leaving all of our weapons behind for ISIS to claim. We're now unofficially declaring war on the SIS group, to destroy the weapons we allowed them to get, but didn't want them to get, since we didn't arm the people who actually would have fought against them and we overthrew the government that wouldn't have allowed them in to begin with.

It's a cluster-fuck of epic proportions caused by, you guessed it! 'Murica!

You mean if its that clumbsy its unlikely to be a conspiracy?

I'm happy to believe that US foreign policy operates as effectively as other bureaucratic responses to pressing issues foreign and domestic and also that this changes with administrations and key personnel and their priorities but I dont tend to believe its as much of a disaster as its painted by naysayers or armchair generals.

As for the whole conspiracy I tend to think that's worse than bollocks, why do they have sophisticated weapons? Well a lot of that's evident from as unsophisticated a source as Lord Of War, ie its cheaper to leave weapons that transport them home after conflicts the US is involved in or they're looted from defeated one time subsidiaries of the US, why dont they attack Israel? Well why do secularists attack christians rather than muslims? Why do grannies get mugged rather than hells angel biker gangs? There's a severe lack of occams razor when it comes to the conspiracies.
 
If we must go, we go. We do what we were sent to do. Leaving always causes more problems. Lies float to the surface, as death from three days' gone by. Vultures come to the smell of death.
 
I think its important that you understand what I'm meaning when I use the words I do, I'm not using the word liberal in any prejorative sense at all, I'm using it as a straight forward descriptive sense. The same goes for optimist.

If all it took to neutralise the threats of extremism was redistribution of wealth, the improvement of social conditions and recognition and respect then we would have seen a gradual disappearence of extremism, most definitely in the prosperous western world, and over the historical timescale definitely. That hasnt happened so I am unconvinced it has anything to do with that at all but I do believe that this assists the people who are grievance prospectors and escalators who seek to recruit people as "assets" for their "cause".

That's the easy fix, I'm not saying it should be ignored, I actually favour it for very different reasons which are nothing to do with extremism at all but I definitely do not believe that it is a fix for extremism at all and it may actually assist the extremists.

Bin Laden was a billionaire oil legacy, all the people directing these campaigns are similar, ISIS was, rightly I think, initially assessed by some western liberal newspapers such as the guardian as an incredibly successful criminal enterprise but that isnt getting across to many of the aggrieved recruits, they dont believe they are fighting for Hans Gruber, they think they are fighting for Che Guevara and a lot of the script you've learned and are deploying here supports that.

Although I'll be honest, I think excitement and wanting to live a life less ordinary, seeking fortune and glory, engaging in heroism, as they understand it, and hero worship is probably behind the motives of the individual raw recruits.
Oh god…how did I know you were going to bring up Bin Laden. That choice is not representative for the group of people that you and I are discussing…and we were specifically talking about those coming from the slums of England and the US…where he is not representative at all.
Why on earth would this be true? -
If all it took to neutralise the threats of extremism was redistribution of wealth, the improvement of social conditions and recognition and respect then we would have seen a gradual disappearence of extremism, most definitely in the prosperous western world, and over the historical timescale definitely.
Hmmm…last time I checked poverty, crime, drug use, inflation, are all up, while wages, education, jobs, and social safety nets in general, are down. Wealth isn’t being redistributed to the general population Lark…it’s being distributed amongst very few at the top of it all.
So how is that statement true? Seriously, please explain.
 
If we must go, we go. We do what we were sent to do. Leaving always causes more problems. Lies float to the surface, as death from three days' gone by. Vultures come to the smell of death.

Why do I picture you like this -
montgomery-burns-los-simpsons-300x224.gif
every time you say shit like that….are you excited for a Holy War?
 
Oh god…how did I know you were going to bring up Bin Laden. That choice is not representative for the group of people that you and I are discussing…and we were specifically talking about those coming from the slums of England and the US…where he is not representative at all.
Why on earth would this be true? -

I think you should reconsider that post, or at the very least do some research if you think that bin laden and AQ have nothing to do with radicalisation in the UK.

Hmmm…last time I checked poverty, crime, drug use, inflation, are all up, while wages, education, jobs, and social safety nets in general, are down. Wealth isn’t being redistributed to the general population Lark…it’s being distributed amongst very few at the top of it all.
So how is that statement true? Seriously, please explain.

The distribution of wealth is always going to come a very, very distant third or fourth behind fidelity to fundamentalist precepts or sharia law in the propaganda of political islam and yet it works, what do you think that says about the whole liberal programme of appeasement?
 
One thing I'd say about this issue is that I'm not particularly hawkish, for a whole host of reasons, and I've heard that even Obama is saying that the US, and by extention probably the "west", doesnt know what to do about political islam. I confess that that information about the amount of seperate theatres of war with a political islam tie in surprises and shocks me.

My concern about this issue largely stems from my experience of the sectarian strife here in Ireland, its a long, long, long way from being over too, and how it results in oppression and violence towards people who arent interested in religiously motivated conflict, they get drawn in because while they may be peaceable, lawful or even simply apathetic, the violent nutcases using religion as a flag of convenience dont care about it. Infact they will often be more violent towards people like that and scoff at any idea of non or unsectarian opposition to their own brand of political religion.

The whole liberal spin, ignorance and minimisation or dismissing of the issue is totally mistaken. It sort of reminds me of the attitude to domestic violence years ago, that its not really an issue and people should mind their own business.
 
I think you should reconsider that post, or at the very least do some research if you think that bin laden and AQ have nothing to do with radicalisation in the UK.
I’m not talking about leaders of the different terrorist groups…I have a very good understanding of who came from where. Once again, he isn’t representative for the group and subject we are discussing at all.

The distribution of wealth is always going to come a very, very distant third or fourth behind fidelity to fundamentalist precepts or sharia law in the propaganda of political islam and yet it works, what do you think that says about the whole liberal programme of appeasement?
I’m not talking about the distribution of wealth (or lack thereof)…I’m talking about supposed “civilized” and “western” countries including the US, having the ability to, but also neglecting to, take care of some basic things one needs to survive and live as a human organism. So far there are quite a few young men from the US and the UK who have seen this as the solution to something their lives were lacking. I would go so far as to say that many of them were probably taken advantage of at one point in time when they were open and vulnerable to it. Their lives called out for meaning…and they found one…they had no one to direct them away from the death and hate…no one to set that example. I wonder how many had Fathers that were active in their lives?
I’m not just saying throw money at it Lark. But we also know that poverty breeds all sorts of issues within a person and society.
 
Where was it, I saw a video on this...? I honestly can't remember, but it summed it up rather nicely. The whole thing is just a huge disaster.




We went to war with a country that actually had no "WMD" to destabilize a secular, albeit brutal, government to send weapons to a poorly trained military that we then abandoned. While at the same time, we refused to arm rebels in Syria for fear that the-now ISIS group would get a hold of, who, was then able to get a foothold on some poorly defended cities along the Syrian border. They then crossed the border to Iraq, where the poorly trained, well-armed army fled, leaving all of our weapons behind for ISIS to claim. We're now unofficially declaring war on the SIS group, to destroy the weapons we allowed them to get, but didn't want them to get, since we didn't arm the people who actually would have fought against them and we overthrew the government that wouldn't have allowed them in to begin with.

It's a cluster-fuck of epic proportions caused by, you guessed it! 'Murica!

lol

That's the offical line and that's funny enough but obviously not unusual in the history of the US where the military industrial complex arms people and then wages war on them profiting on war twice

But the offical story is one of INCOMPETANCE and many of the public want to believe that all these things happen because of incompetance

But the truth is they happen because they are planned that way

ISIS is the new bogeyman that will justify the military industrial complexes NEVER ENDING 'war on terror'!

They're waging war on an emotion: 'terror'!

Lol.....that's insane

So their logic works like this....

To fight terror they must flood the world with terror by arming crazy people, breaking crazy people out of prisons across the muslim world, training them, arming them, fudning them and then unleashing them on the world

Also terror is waged war upon by drone attacking civilians, shelling civilians in gaza and eastern ukraine, invading Iraq, Afghanistan and fomenting violence in Libya, Syria, Egypt and Pakisthan!

So how is the 'war on terror' going folks?

Anyone feeling safe from the emotion of terror yet?

Or maybe the truth is that our zionist leaders ARE THE TERROR MERCHANTS

BBC journalist adam curtis takes a look at how the al qaeda bogeyman was created in his doco 'the power of nightmares' in 3 parts: https://archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares-Episode1BabyItsColdOutside
 
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ISIS will fan out and hide amongst the population, guarding their butts. They cut a few heads off. Next, you will see ISIS buried in the sands of time with their heads revealed.
 
montgomery-burns-los-simpsons-300x224.gif
- "ISIS will fan out and hide amongst the population, guarding their butts. They cut a few heads off. Next, you will see ISIS buried in the sands of time with their heads revealed."
See…it works. lol
 
Behold, Devil: your new neighbor.
 
Mind if I call them WASWAS?
 
WAHHABISM
 
copied

[h=1]To understand ISIS look at the history of Saudi Arabia’s Wahhabism[/h] by Alastair Crooke
Source: huffingtonpost.com

September 6, 2014 | Filed under: Featured,Opinion | Posted by: MV Media














Wahabi-ikhwan.jpg

By: Alastair Crooke
Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
The dramatic arrival of Da’ish (ISIS) on the stage of Iraq has shocked many in the West. Many have been perplexed and horrified by its violence and its evident magnetism for Sunni youth. But more than this, they find Saudi Arabia’s ambivalence in the face of this manifestation both troubling and inexplicable, wondering, “Don’t the Saudis understand that ISIS threatens them, too?”
It appears even now that Saudi Arabia’s ruling elite is divided. Some applaud that ISIS is fighting Iranian Shiite “fire” with Sunni “fire”; that a new Sunni state is taking shape at the very heart of what they regard as a historical Sunni patrimony; and they are drawn by Da’ish’s strict Salafist ideology.
Other Saudis are more fearful, and recall the history of the revolt against Abd-al Aziz by the Wahhabist Ikhwan (Disclaimer: this Ikhwan has nothing to do with the Muslim Brotherhood Ikhwan please note, all further references hereafter are to the Wahhabist Ikhwan, and not to the Muslim Brotherhood Ikhwan), but which nearly imploded Wahhabism and the al-Saud in the late 1920s.
Many Saudis are deeply disturbed by the radical doctrines of Da’ish (ISIS) and are beginning to question some aspects of Saudi Arabia’s direction and discourse.
THE SAUDI DUALITY
Saudi Arabia’s internal discord and tensions over ISIS can only be understood by grasping the inherent (and persisting) duality that lies at the core of the Kingdom’s doctrinal makeup and its historical origins.
One dominant strand to the Saudi identity pertains directly to Muhammad ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab (the founder of Wahhabism), and the use to which his radical, exclusionist puritanism was put by Ibn Saud. (The latter was then no more than a minor leader amongst many of continually sparring and raiding Bedouin tribes in the baking and desperately poor deserts of the Nejd.)
The second strand to this perplexing duality, relates precisely to King Abd-al Aziz’s subsequent shift towards statehood in the 1920s: his curbing of Ikhwani violence (in order to have diplomatic standing as a nation-state with Britain and America); his institutionalization of the original Wahhabist impulse and the subsequent seizing of the opportunely surging petrodollar spigot in the 1970s, to channel the volatile Ikhwani current away from home towards export by diffusing a cultural revolution, rather than violent revolution throughout the Muslim world.
But this “cultural revolution” was no docile reformism. It was a revolution based on Abd al-Wahhab’s Jacobin-like hatred for the putrescence and deviationism that he perceived all about him hence his call to purge Islam of all its heresies and idolatries.
MUSLIM IMPOSTORS
The American author and journalist, Steven Coll, has written how this austere and censorious disciple of the 14th century scholar Ibn Taymiyyah, Abd al-Wahhab, despised “the decorous, arty, tobacco smoking, hashish imbibing, drum pounding Egyptian and Ottoman nobility who travelled across Arabia to pray at Mecca.”
In Abd al-Wahhab’s view, these were not Muslims; they were imposters masquerading as Muslims. Nor, indeed, did he find the behavior of local Bedouin Arabs much better. They aggravated Abd al-Wahhab by their honoring of saints, by their erecting of tombstones, and their “superstition” (e.g. revering graves or places that were deemed particularly imbued with the divine).
All this behavior, Abd al-Wahhab denounced as bida forbidden by God.
Like Taymiyyah before him, Abd al-Wahhab believed that the period of the Prophet Muhammad’s stay in Medina was the ideal of Muslim society (the “best of times”), to which all Muslims should aspire to emulate (this, essentially, is Salafism).
Taymiyyah had declared war on Shi’ism, Sufism and Greek philosophy. He spoke out, too against visiting the grave of the prophet and the celebration of his birthday, declaring that all such behavior represented mere imitation of the Christian worship of Jesus as God (i.e. idolatry). Abd al-Wahhab assimilated all this earlier teaching, stating that “any doubt or hesitation” on the part of a believer in respect to his or her acknowledging this particular interpretation of Islam should “deprive a man of immunity of his property and his life.”
One of the main tenets of Abd al-Wahhab’s doctrine has become the key idea oftakfir. Under the takfiri doctrine, Abd al-Wahhab and his followers could deem fellow Muslims infidels should they engage in activities that in any way could be said to encroach on the sovereignty of the absolute Authority (that is, the King). Abd al-Wahhab denounced all Muslims who honored the dead, saints, or angels. He held that such sentiments detracted from the complete subservience one must feel towards God, and only God. Wahhabi Islam thus bans any prayer to saints and dead loved ones, pilgrimages to tombs and special mosques, religious festivals celebrating saints, the honoring of the Muslim Prophet Muhammad’s birthday, and even prohibits the use of gravestones when burying the dead.
“Those who would not conform to this view should be killed, their wives and daughters violated, and their possessions confiscated, he wrote. “
Abd al-Wahhab demanded conformity a conformity that was to be demonstrated in physical and tangible ways. He argued that all Muslims must individually pledge their allegiance to a single Muslim leader (a Caliph, if there were one). Those who would not conform to this view should be killed, their wives and daughters violated, and their possessions confiscated, he wrote. The list of apostates meriting death included the Shiite, Sufis and other Muslim denominations, whom Abd al-Wahhab did not consider to be Muslim at all.
There is nothing here that separates Wahhabism from ISIS. The rift would emerge only later: from the subsequent institutionalization of Muhammad ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab’s doctrine of “One Ruler, One Authority, One Mosque” these three pillars being taken respectively to refer to the Saudi king, the absolute authority of official Wahhabism, and its control of “the word” (i.e. the mosque).
It is this rift the ISIS denial of these three pillars on which the whole of Sunni authority presently rests makes ISIS, which in all other respects conforms to Wahhabism, a deep threat to Saudi Arabia.
The views expressed in this article are the author’s and do not necessarily reflect those of MuslimVillage.com.




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Obama says, "First of all, ISIS are not Islamists." Sounds straight from Saudi Arabia...BS.
 
Obama says, "First of all, ISIS are not Islamists." Sounds straight from Saudi Arabia...BS.

They are probably trying to manage geopolitics in that region, yes, they are probably trying to manage it the direction of allies, yes, they are probably even looking at "outsourcing" the fighting to local actors, yes, since every single conflict in the history of the world since the abortive occupation of afghanistan has been one they want locals to take care of at their behest, it follows the example of the Brits, I mean they could have kept the sectarian division and conflict in NI going on indefinitely if the US hadnt intervened and worked with the republicans to end it all after the Cold War was thought to be finally done.

I also think they are trying to draw some boundary lines between violent, fundamentalist religion and other sorts of religion, the sort of division that exist in the west and anyone living there takes for granted.

Personally I think they will be a long, long, long time convincing anyone in the war zones or volunteering for the war zones that violence is apostate and irreligious. I'm unconvinced Wuhabi or whatever it is is that important, they talked about how some guy who actually hailed from the west was a key thinker for Bin Laden and talked about his rejection of secularism and modernism in favour of at times anarchy and at times dictatorship but always being negative or anti in character were all important. One of the first books I read on Islam was Washington Irving's book on Mohammed and it pretty much pointed up how it emerged from desert dwellers with short life spans and violent ways. Not a lot has changed by all appearences.

The "west" has had schisms, reformations, rennaisance, the counter currents to them all, then revolutions, counter revolutions, enlightenments, then a 101 other culturally liberalising trends which by all accounts havent happened in the war zones or wont happen because war and harsh conditions are limiting peoples lifespans and the growth of culture.

I dont think there's any leninist style vanguard infusing consciousness or spread democracy solution to this, they'll be immune to it, there isnt going to be any kind of consensus, only truces between those camps and hostility and all anyone who strongly identifies with the more tolerant camp (and you're in it by default if you dont feel you belong to either, the militants of each could give a shit) is defend their perimeter and hope it doesnt contract too much.