INTJs Expressing Feelings/Emotions | INFJ Forum

INTJs Expressing Feelings/Emotions

not sure

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Feb 10, 2011
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This issue has been nagging me for a while now and I'm wondering if any other INTJs can relate. Of course, others can contribute if they like.

Do you, INTJs, find that the people close to you are always pressuring you to express your feelings and that you can never be expressive enough for them? Do you resent it and find it easier to distance yourself from them? Also, do you find that the act of expressing feelings, in depth, somehow removes you from actually enjoying the experience. How do you get people to understand that your word can be trusted but that your actions more than anything else speak for you? I've tried to understand my emotions better so that I can improve my self-expression. However, I'm at the point where I'm saying, "To hell with this." All this introspection actually makes me feel worse and keeps me locked in my head. Your thoughts please.
 
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:( I'm sorry [MENTION=3710]kiu[/MENTION]. You can't be something you're not. They should learn your language of expressing your love. Bless you for trying to accommodate them. That speaks loudly to how much you care for them. Subtle is good. Genuine. More believable. Over the top & demonstrative is not for everybody, and it shouldn't be mandatory, in my opinion.
 
I enjoy relishing my deepest emotions all to myself. It's as if nobody would get it anyway. Hope that doesn't sound to condescending. If I shared all my emotions with others, I would be locked away somewhere after a short period of time I'm sure. :):hippie:
 
I can understand this very well [MENTION=3710]kiu[/MENTION]. The only time when I can really understand my emotions and feelings is when I'm by myself, trying to make sense out of them. Most people say that you shouldn't try to make sense out of them, that you should just feel it within you and act upon that. However, I find that very foreign, and dangerous. I must know what I'm feeling, and why I'm feeling it, and as a result, it probably doesn't come out as natural and pure as those who do, since those feelings have now been refined by my own understanding by my own process.

To tell you the truth, anger is the only emotion I can detect very quickly. All the other emotions (joy, pride, happiness, boredom, resentment), those take a long time before I can categorize them as such. I've had to read lots of books and internet research to identify the physiological process that occur for each emotion, and that has been a major way that I could identify them. For the most part, you can say that I'm feeling neutral, I don't react to things or situations. I just take those situations, regardless if they're good or bad, as it is. I don't try to judge it.

This leads to the social effect this has had on me for years. Family and friends expect me to react in some way when they tell me something. When they have gossip, they want me to react surprised, indignant or agreeing with their views when in fact, I just feel "meh", and this usually makes them upset and confused. I don't like reacting because 1.) I don't feel anything at that time to react accordingly, and 2.) I feel like I'm playing their game; being emotionally manipulated which is one of the things I most hate that people do to me. I react my way, and in my time, not theirs.

Of course, over the time I've shown compassion and felt closeness when people do need it. I'm much better to share their pain and suffering through being there with them, and trying to do as much as possible to help them get through it. I still don't react or feel much, but I can at least understand what they're going through which has helped me understand feelings and emotions. You have to accept them that they are a part of you, a condition that you must negotiate with that feeling side.
 
This issue has been nagging me for a while now and I'm wondering if any other INTJs can relate. Of course, others can contribute if they like.

Do you, INTJs, find that the people close to you are always pressuring you to express your feelings and that you can never be expressive enough for them?

No, now that I think about it. Most of my friends are understanding and/or assholes with no feelings. It tends to work out. Then again, with that being said, I've also worked a bit of being able to express my emotions and it's not hard for me to do anymore.

kiu said:
Do you resent it and find it easier to distance yourself from them?

On one hand, it is easier for me to be superficially mad at someone for wanting more of me but I wouldn't exactly try to distance myself from them, I suppose. In essence, I would feel as if they wanted to know me better and I would appreciate that and accept that they have a very different interacting style than them, and I would try to compromise and speak more freely around them if I felt comfortable with that.
kiu said:
Also, do you find that the act of expressing feelings, in depth, somehow removes you from actually enjoying the experience.

Expressing feelings in words? Yes and no. It's not about what is said but more about the intention. Depends on the situation.


kiu said:
How do you get people to understand that your word can be trusted but that your actions more than anything else speak for you? I've tried to understand my emotions better so that I can improve my self-expression. However, I'm at the point where I'm saying, "To hell with this." All this introspection actually makes me feel worse and keeps me locked in my head. Your thoughts please.


Honestly, I'm not sure. Telling them helps but honestly, it really depends on the person. Some people will never understand that actions mean more than words (and you could always interpret that telling someone something is an action in and of itself) and there's nothing wrong with that. Some people want and need verbal adulation. Some people prefer time together even if they don't even talk to each other.
 
AUM, I am glad that I am not alone though I would rather no one have the experience at all.

I also like that you express feeling neutrality most times. I relate to this more than apathy and like you anger is my most readily identifiable emotion. Other complex emotions are, I agree, very difficult to sort and there are some which I've been trying to grasp for years.

Most people say that you shouldn't try to make sense out of them, that you should just feel it within you and act upon that.

I am of two minds regarding this. For the most part I would rather not analyze my emotions and would prefer to experience them without judgement and commentary, allowing them to rise, fall and flow as they wish. However, there are times when emotions are important to making choices and the more complex the emotion the more paralyzed my thinking becomes. Sometimes, with very intense emotion I cannot name what I am feeling. I know this is difficult for some people to understand but it really is so. How can any decisions be made if you can't classify? These are the times I need to retreat and unfortunately these are the same times when attempts are made to draw me out. The results are always disastrous in my opinion. If you tell them to back off they either become more curious or they take it to the other extreme and ignore all my emotional responses. I've dealt with this in different types of relationships and I don't think anyone will ever truly get it. There is a bit of guilt associated too because I think it makes people afraid of me and doubt if I truly care. Extending back to childhood, there has been this invisible wall that I cannot break through.

Reading others' emotions is a separate but somewhat related problem also. I can't say how many times, I've had to face angry outbursts because others are frustrated that I can't read them. (I do have some ability to read people but it doesn't really go beyond this one is dangerous or not.) Sometimes, I think the entire world is speaking in a code that I never learned.
 
On one hand, it is easier for me to be superficially mad at someone for wanting more of me but I wouldn't exactly try to distance myself from them, I suppose. In essence, I would feel as if they wanted to know me better and I would appreciate that and accept that they have a very different interacting style than them, and I would try to compromise and speak more freely around them if I felt comfortable with that.

I'm a believer in compromise however, in my experience people don't want compromise. They want to make me over. There is only so much bending that I can do and eventually it reaches a point beyond which I cannot go. I do appreciate wanting to know a person better however, no one can know me better than myself. I myself like to explore other people but I think I try to respect when they say, "Not there." Therefore, when I say, "There is no more to say or give," I expect that should be respected. Some things require time and patience and my self-expression falls into that category. I don't play games and I don't purposefully withhold. I mean what I say and if I change my mind, updates will be issued promptly.
 
I'm a believer in compromise however, in my experience people don't want compromise. They want to make me over. There is only so much bending that I can do and eventually it reaches a point beyond which I cannot go. I do appreciate wanting to know a person better however, no one can know me better than myself. I myself like to explore other people but I think I try to respect when they say, "Not there." Therefore, when I say, "There is no more to say or give," I expect that should be respected. Some things require time and patience and my self-expression falls into that category. I don't play games and I don't purposefully withhold. I mean what I say and if I change my mind, updates will be issued promptly.

In that respect, I have to admit, I do have a bias in play. I'm pretty good with sizing up people. I'm also good at figuring out if I'm going to be interested in a person. I tend to cut my relationships with people I think will be annoying in the future early on. People should be respectful of boundaries but, as many of my friends tell me, most people are not. Of course, I think many people don't really understand how much effort it takes for some people to emote. I also think that most people don't really understand what effort is. Or how to quantify it. Most people assume that if they put any effort into understanding a person that person should spontaneously open up and be willing to give up part of themselves. I can't find fault for that, I've done it before. It's a amateur mistake.
 
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A personal reflection on the topic. I thought you were an INFJ when I saw the initial post, so pardon the "Talking to a different type" tone of all this:

For me, personally, I might view the conflict as coming from an interaction between Fi, Te, and Ni. Our feelings are guided by our internal values (Fi). We see the way that things should be with regard to those values (Ni) and reflect on them with regard to what is actually going on around us (Te).

Those components tend to lead to an expression of feeling that is deviated from the norm, and tends to be dismissed as it isn't what other people are feeling. A lot of the time, our deficient Fe doesn't allow us to properly defend our ideas within a social context. We get defensive after being beaten down by the fallacious arguments we see around us constantly. If we're honest with our feelings, which can be a bit chaotic, we make ourselves easy fodder for anyone who has a disagreement with us and who has more skill than us in the social game and wants to exercise their Fe against ours.

My values get distorted in the minds of others, and generalizations are made about them - such as that they're heartless, or attacking. Because I tend to filter my feelings through my thinking, the feeling is subtle in the expression of thoughts. It might be the tone or subtle words, but the feeling is always underlying the thoughts as opposed to "solving a problem" underlying the thoughts in more logical conversations. Maybe it's a check to make sure I don't go psycho-emotional. Instead of "This makes me so sad!" I'm more likely to say "This thing happened, and I think that it could have been expected but it's still a bad situation. I don't feel too good about it. The situation will change as time passes. It always does."

----------

As an example, someone might ask me how I feel about my sister who, after getting off of a narcotics addiction, met a guy online who lived in a different state, met him twice, and then married him 2 months after their initial chat. She just had her first child with him. The conversation might go something like this:

Them: You must be so excited! Your sister's really changed her life around, and I bet she's really going to change now that she's a mother!

Me: I don't think so. I love her to death, and I'll always be there for her, but I don't think this will turn out well. (Decoded: I don't like it.)

Them: What do you mean?

Me: She married a guy who was just like the guys that she dated in highschool and college. He's a halfway between a player and an asshole who can put on a decent facade at being a decent person, but that's just a mask. I imagine she'll raise her daughter to be like her, and that the daughter will be an emotionally immature girl who dates douchebags and doesn't learn self-reliance or to feel responsible for herself. (Decoded: I feel bad for my sister, and I don't like her husband. I feel bad for the daughter, and I'm trying to accept what I see the future being. It makes me a little sad and a little disappointed about the whole thing, but not surprised.)

Them: You don't have faith in your family?

Me: *goes logical* Past behavior predicts future behavior, and they've both been immature in the past. Children learn how to behave from their parents, so in all likelihood the child will learn to- *gets cut off*

Them: You can't say that!! You need to be more hopeful. Don't be such a pessimist.

Me: *slightly irritated at being asked how I felt and then being criticized for it* That's what I think about it. (Decoded: That's how I feel about it.)
Them: How many healthy relationships have you had? I bet you're just upset because she's married and you're not. I bet you talk about her poorly like you're talking about her now all the time. You need to be nicer to your family.

----------

Two possible ends usually occur.

Optional ending A:

Me: *Sensing hostility. Get out of conversation. Logic does not work in this. Their barriers are up. Damage control! Damage control! Fluff off all responses for this topic.*

Me: I might be wrong, but I think that's the way it will play out.

Them: Well, you're wrong for thinking that way.

Me: *shrug* Maybe, who knows? (Thinking: God I am such a bitch for taking this...)

Them: There have been a lot of couples who got together after only a week or two and were together for their entire lives after that!

Me: Maybe it'll play out like that, but maybe it won't. (Thinking: Within their context they did, but my sister isn't like that and neither is her husband. You're wrong.)

Them: So is that really what you think will happen?

Me: I don't know. *change topic to awkward smalltalk!* So have you ever been to ______ ?

---
or
---

Me: *Sensing hostility. Incoming attack. Going on defensive. Counter-attack.*

Me: That's irrelevant.

Them: You think it's irrelevant. Once you've experienced it you'll think differently.

Me: I don't think so.

Them: Either way, you sound like you're being a pretty awful brother to her. You should be more supportive.

Me: *irritated and tempted to tell them to fuck off*

Them: How is being supportive bad?

Me: *Explode!* Listen, if you think you're at all connected to the situation, you're completely delusional. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. My sister has always been the type to make bad decisions and whine and bitch about the consequences that follow her own voluntary mistakes. They are her fault, and she refuses to admit that they are and to learn from them. She's going to keep making them because that's the type of person that she is. I don't like it, but that's what I see. Hell, I MIGHT be wrong, but I doubt it. If you disagree, you're welcome to, but I'm not going to forfeit what I think just because you disapprove of it.

Them: See, there's that negativity again!

Me: BAH!! *Leaves*

---

In short, I think that because our feelings are rooted in our own values and interpretations and can differ so widely from what is considered "socially acceptable" or "normal", they tend to get dismissed by the "guardians of the social game". They're much better at playing social cards than we are, so they win through their crazy tactics that we're not fluent in.

As a disclaimer, those are situations that encourage the notion of "Do not show feelings". It happens quite a bit for me. To the point where I won't get into topics I have feelings about unless I know that the other person won't be a dismissive, closed-minded jerkface about it. There are a lot of people, however, who are open and can empathize and who it's absolutely wonderful to talk to. God, I wish there were more of the latter than the former - but such is not the case!

Whew!
 
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A personal reflection on the topic. I thought you were an INFJ when I saw the initial post, so pardon the "Talking to a different type" tone of all this:

No apologies necessary. I enjoyed your post. (<----emoting ;) )

I also agree with you. I can now see it very clearly, the tendency to give detailed logical explanations for how I've come to my position is not interpreted as an expression of feeling to other types and it does bring to mind a particularly puzzling set of conversations I've had in the past. I was asked my opinion on a variety of matters and of course, I gave it in a similarly detailed and logical manner, outlining the pros and cons. Each and everyone of those conversations ended with the person expressing their bewilderment and disgust while accusing me of being negative. I, on the other hand did not think I was negative but instead thought that I had expressed comprehensively my thoughts on the matter related to the various contexts. These puzzling conversations happened a few more times and then we went our separate ways. That amount of miscommunication was insurmountable or at least too much to cope with at such an early stage.
 
Whenever someone talks about compromise they always seem to have it confused with ultimatums.

As for your question, I'm not sure if I could explain it. I pretty much lie every time someone wants me to express my feelings anyway. No exceptions. I don't really care. Family is the worse when it comes to "vulturing" emotional welfare. That is probably one of the reasons why I don't like spending time with family. In the end they represent all that is boring and worthless, which is why I only use them if in need of economical assistance. The problem with that is-- then I owe them one. So, again, I further distance myself.
 
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How do you get people to understand that your word can be trusted but that your actions more than anything else speak for you?

I do nothing. Recently, my INFJ colleague asked me whether I'm disappointed (because of a minor problem that occured). And I simply said "No". But because I said it without any emotions, she started second-guessing. Then she asked me again, and I just repeated my simple "No". At some point, they understand. With friends or relatives, the third time they ask I just ignore them.
 
This issue has been nagging me for a while now and I'm wondering if any other INTJs can relate. Of course, others can contribute if they like.

Do you, INTJs, find that the people close to you are always pressuring you to express your feelings and that you can never be expressive enough for them? Do you resent it and find it easier to distance yourself from them? Also, do you find that the act of expressing feelings, in depth, somehow removes you from actually enjoying the experience. How do you get people to understand that your word can be trusted but that your actions more than anything else speak for you? I've tried to understand my emotions better so that I can improve my self-expression. However, I'm at the point where I'm saying, "To hell with this." All this introspection actually makes me feel worse and keeps me locked in my head. Your thoughts please.

I find that as people get to know me they either accept me for who I am or they leave me the hell alone. When I express feelings, which is rare, but not as rare as it once was before meeting my wife and having children, I tend to objectify, qualify and attempt to quantify them.

For example if a close friend asks me if I am upset or in distress I will likely respond with a scale and a psychoanalysis: On a scale of 10, my anger is 7.5. This is probably due to the fact that my mom used to infantizile me even into my late teenage years. __________ patronized me in similar fashion, therefore it angers me more than it might have if my mom didn't do that to me earlier in life. In all likelihood I am transferring frustration on ___________ and my anger level should realistically be about 5.

My friends understand me now and wouldn't expect me to respond much differently than this. I find this is the best way for me to emote and If I am really comfortable with someone I may add a few colloquialisms and loosen up a bit while expressing in a less constrained manner. But only with a few people.

That doesn't mean that is how I experience emotions, just how I convey my experience of them. My feelings often run too deep for verbal expression (which is why I use pastels). I usually have to mull on things for a while before I talk with anyone.

Common reaction:

Wife: I can't believe _______ did that! Are you upset?
Me: Let me sort through the situation. I'm not ready to talk about that yet.
 
I find that as people get to know me they either accept me for who I am or they leave me the hell alone. When I express feelings, which is rare, but not as rare as it once was before meeting my wife and having children, I tend to objectify, qualify and attempt to quantify them.

For example if a close friend asks me if I am upset or in distress I will likely respond with a scale and a psychoanalysis:
<snip>

Me: Let me sort through the situation. I'm not ready to talk about that yet.

I am stealing your scale idea. All ready, I can see so many applications. Why didn't I think of that?
"I'm not ready to talk about that". LOL. Good one.
 
I am stealing your scale idea. All ready, I can see so many applications. Why didn't I think of that?
"I'm not ready to talk about that". LOL. Good one.

I'm glad someone enjoys my "scales". :)

A thought occurred to me as I was reading my daughter a bed-time story a few minutes ago. Do you find that as a female others have expectations of how you should communicate that differ from how others expect males to do the same thing? Double standards are replete in nearly all cultures, I suppose. I think that males are given a lot more leeway in this area, but I am guessing that since you are an INTJ female, you already know this firsthand.
 
Do you find that as a female others have expectations of how you should communicate that differ from how others expect males to do the same thing?

Since I was a child, I've been described as too direct, too cold, too stubborn, lacking in compassion, too inflexible, too analytical, too sharp, unfeminine, too distant etc. Truly cruel things have been said to me which I could never bring myself to repeat. I would always point out that I was not saying things any differently from my male counterparts but that argument was not acceptable. During my teenage years, I attended an all-girl's school and had no real issues. However, I also had co-ed classes at another school and there I was always treated with a sort of awe that I cannot quite explain except to say that it left me feeling separate. It wasn't until young adulthood that I actively started to adjust myself to fit in. However, I was only able to keep it up for a few years and then I withdrew. I can very convincingly mimic a more social, feminine woman. However, when placed next to a woman for whom these are natural characteristics the differences stand out in relief.

P.S.
My type is often questioned on these forums. I am not sure why but I suspect my posts are not considered to be as abrasive as the stereotypical INTJ. What I think few know is the amount of thought and editing that goes into my posts. I take great care not to cause offence because I wish to fit into this environment. It is very easy to adjust on forums because I can buy time. I however, tend to avoid chat environments especially if it involves multiples because things become really difficult to manage in that situation. Recently, at another site my response to an INTJs question was interpreted as being on the offensive. This is very common in real life but I found it hilarious that even another INTJ female found my response startling. In truth, I believed my response to be factual and neutral especially since I had no emotional involvement with the subject matter. Even with female INTJs it suits me to be cautious. <chuckle>
 
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I'm not an INTJ.

But as a male INFJ, I probably look similar on the outside.

My feelings are much easier to express in writing.

I have had a few unfortunate moments of snapping on people, and it scared some. I think they thought that it was an "implosion" that introverts supposedly have.
 
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I tested as an INTJ for years, but after some very careful analysis, I have come to the safe conclusion that I am an INFJ. I'm just too damn emotional.

My best friend and boyfriend is an INTJ and he is very spare in his verbal affections. They occur only when elicited by me and even then, I am often confronted by a rather impatient countenance. The more insecure I feel, the more this bothers me, but he has so many redeeming qualities that I sometimes feel foolish for feeling insecure in the first place.

In any case, I think that you will feel "put off" by people constantly asking you INTJs for your "emotions" and "feelings," for the rest of your life. It's going to happen in our society, might as well get used to it. I see it as any other skill. You have to learn to tolerate small talk to have any semblance of a well-intentioned citizen, might as well understand that people tend to be more emotional than you.

When it comes to long-term intimate relationships, I think that it's possible to find someone who will understand your inferior Feeling function. It might take a while, but it can happen and then you might even feel more motivated to learn the language of self-expression. I used to ask my boyfriend what he was "feeling," to which he almost always responded, "I don't know," or, "I'm not sure." At first I didn't believe him, but now I understand that it's truly difficult for him.

What of the redeeming qualities of INTJs that would keep around an affection craving INFJ female?

1. INTJs are extraordinarily loyal. I feel that I don't have to worry about him thinking about other women. He's mine and that's that until otherwise specified.
2. INTJs know what they know and admit to what they don't know. I have never been with someone so honest and direct. What he lacks in nuance, he makes up in forthrightness. I will always know where I stand so long as I ask him directly.
3. INTJs are wicked funny. You just have to wait for it and their execution is remarkable. This goes hand in hand with their intelligence.

We constantly teach each other things. I show him what it means to be tolerant of contradictions for the sake of empathy. He teaches me how to be humble and confident. It has been such a gift to meet an INTJ who I find physically and mentally attractive.

You guys absolutely rock and don't let your feelings of marginalization get you down.
 
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No, I don't think anyone who is close to me pressures me for an emotional repsonse. I'm sure they're all used to me by now, so they know they're really not going to get a lot unless they really upset me. Sometimes people who I don't know well will comment "You weren't excited about that?'. Often I find I am quite excited about whatever they've commented on, it's just that I haven't really shown it externally.

INTJs do feel very deeply; it's just that very few people ever get to see it.
 
INTJs do feel very deeply; it's just that very few people ever get to see it.

I think this is a great summary. I can express my feelings logically, as stated by @DrShephard . If you want tears or big emotional expressions--not really. I will likely withdraw if I am feeling so out of sorts rather than speak with someone. I don't ever get pressured to be something I am not--either that or I just don't pay attention to it. I do get slightly hurt when I get "you're mean" and such thrown at me by people I care about because that is not my intention.

I get more upset about people wanting me to respond to their emotions "in the moment". I am used to taking time to try and figure out what is going on inside me first--so I try and give people the same courtesy and just back away for a little while. I dislike having to "hash it out" when if some time had been taken then it all wouldn't have been necessary anyway--you know where the person figures out they are in a bad mood anyway and you were the person they unloaded on.