Really, I didn't know that. So does it mean that I've been telling myself lies? Anyways why is it so difficult?
INFJs and borderline personality disorder
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Really, I didn't know that. So does it mean that I've been telling myself lies? Anyways why is it so difficult?
- Sep 28, 2008
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In some way, yes, though mostly to no fault of your own.
Reality is complex.
Okay, Wyote, I haven't been telling myself lies because when it comes to this particular topic I'm very unbiased. And reality is not complex, people just try to make it complex. Yes the colour gray exists but it just boils down to negative and positive. Why does the word unbiased exist then?
- Sep 28, 2008
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I don't need to convince you of anything and you seem convinced of your opinions so this conversation is pointless. Unbiased is the opposite of biased. Truth is in the middle.
Um no it's not pointless, I want to understand your opinion. Okay, you don't have to be so cruel in your response to what I said. I know unbiased is the opposite of biased. What is the middle though, what is that gray area when it comes to biases especially related to this topic?
It's not possible for human beings to be unbiased by default. This is why we build systems for investigation, testing as well as critique around our best performing endeavors. The less a category is wrapped up in concerns about the validity of human beings themselves, the more honest the data will be about that category and the better performing the products of it will be. Unfortunately, psychology is central to concerns about human value because it is inescapably about the human condition. Most people lack the ability to consider more than one set of conditions simultaneously. With regard to the topic of personality disorders and especially cluster b (I'll explain why it's special below), we can apply respect for a host of concerns accross the board without them needing to compete with one another. Consider the following:
As for
Practically every domain of study right now, from physics to anthroplogy to public policy is marked by a war between reductionist pedagogical & research traditions, vs. their non-linear, process-oriented counterparts. As time passes and deeper, more disrespectful research is accomplished, the gap widens and those who remain reductionists are shown to be the religious careerists they must be to hold that position. Reality is complex. As technology increases the efficiency of research, one likely outgrowth will be gaining the capacity to exponentially expand the angles of appraoch and factors we consider as relevent to our investigations. Life will increasingly require people to be sound handlers of details, principles and contexts with equal deftness. For what it's worth, the INFJ function stack would be a serious boon to advancing and sobering the understandings that will be borne of this future work.
- Cluster B disorders, so far as research suggests, is a suite of personality disorders that affects self-concept (identity) in such a way that the afflicted person is compulsed to aberrent behavior acted out against others. This is to say, cluster B is inherently exercised interpersonally.
- Research also suggests that a confluence of genetic capacity and/or predisposition as well as environment/behavior received during the ages of 6 months to 5/6 years of age is what sets those who later operate as an afflicted cluster b disordered person into motion toward the condition. This is to say, the existence and affects of the disorder are absolutely not the fault of the disordered person.
- Furthermore, the aforementioned interpersonal nature of cluster b disorders is what produces the affects and outcomes that make it a relevent concern of both psychology and public health. This is to say that, the cluster b afflicted person does not have a problem which is isolated to their own person. Instead, cluster b is by definition, the problem of an identity disordered person pathologically acting out to prompt/manipulate other people in order to subjugate their autonomy and convert them into sources of on-demand validation. Those who end up enmeshed with the cluster b afflicted person are themselves, victims of deep psychological and potentially physical violence.
As for
Practically every domain of study right now, from physics to anthroplogy to public policy is marked by a war between reductionist pedagogical & research traditions, vs. their non-linear, process-oriented counterparts. As time passes and deeper, more disrespectful research is accomplished, the gap widens and those who remain reductionists are shown to be the religious careerists they must be to hold that position. Reality is complex. As technology increases the efficiency of research, one likely outgrowth will be gaining the capacity to exponentially expand the angles of appraoch and factors we consider as relevent to our investigations. Life will increasingly require people to be sound handlers of details, principles and contexts with equal deftness. For what it's worth, the INFJ function stack would be a serious boon to advancing and sobering the understandings that will be borne of this future work.
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- Sep 28, 2008
- 41,236
- 246,636
- 4,281
- MBTI
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 954 so/sx
- Sep 28, 2008
- 41,236
- 246,636
- 4,281
- MBTI
- INFJ
- Enneagram
- 954 so/sx
BPD is a medical disorder
incredibly ableist response.
borderline personality disorder is a personality disorder, usually developed as a response to childhood trauma. symptoms do include suicidal and self-harming behaviors, but it is much more than that. it is not inherently related to narcissistic personality disorder or toxic behaviors like threatening suicide/self-harm. as someone with bpd, this response was horribly offensive. :/ please be considerate.
i'm an infj and i have borderline!
here's a few similarities i have noticed.
- infjs are known for our drive to help others. many with bpd will do anything to please and care the people we love.
- infjs usually forget to take care of themselves because they're so busy caring for others; this is true with those with bpd as well.
- both are commonly rejection sensitive.
- both are perfectionistic. for example, bpd leaves me with a chronic feeling of emptiness and the belief that i am inherently bad, so i will go to any measure to be deemed as good in the eyes of others. this leads to being perfectionistic in many aspects of my life.
- infjs and borderlines are very creative! we can find many different ways to express our compassion and empathy towards other people. a lot of people with mental disorders go into fields where they can help others going through similar obstacles as we are. many infjs are counselors, therapists, social workers, etc...
- infjs are loyal and have a small close friend group. those with bpd are very loyal and dedicated to their fp and the people they love.
- since infjs are driven to aid others, many people take advantage of our altrusim. many people take advantage of us with bpd as well. for example, people with bpd have low self-esteem and poor boundaries. many people will manipulate and use borderlines's need to be liked/helpful to their advantage.
- infjs are very misunderstood, just like those who have bpd.
1. I think your observations are very accurate. 2. I wish you nothing but the very best on your struggle with BPD, that is not an easy route to travel 3. Thank you for your courage!!
I certainly realize this is an ancient thread but, I would LOVE to hear more about "They make you fall in love with them".
o2b
Permanent Fixture
Hi jolyne,
The concept of splitting intrigues me. Correct me if I am wrong, but at a very high level, I am intrigued by the psychology of one's reason as it relates to folks whose feelings are sometimes all over the map. That being said, I understand folks with bpd to suffer reason fluctuating a lot, being quite dependent on the fluctuation in feeling.
Is this understanding accurate?
As relates to me, my feelings may be all over the place, but my reason seems close to impervious to its fluctuations.
The concept of splitting intrigues me. Correct me if I am wrong, but at a very high level, I am intrigued by the psychology of one's reason as it relates to folks whose feelings are sometimes all over the map. That being said, I understand folks with bpd to suffer reason fluctuating a lot, being quite dependent on the fluctuation in feeling.
Is this understanding accurate?
As relates to me, my feelings may be all over the place, but my reason seems close to impervious to its fluctuations.
BPD is a complicated llness. Chaotic feelings about the self and others make navigating life difficult. However, I don't think there is any connection with any particular MBTI.
incredibly ableist response.
borderline personality disorder is a personality disorder, usually developed as a response to childhood trauma. symptoms do include suicidal and self-harming behaviors, but it is much more than that. it is not inherently related to narcissistic personality disorder or toxic behaviors like threatening suicide/self-harm. as someone with bpd, this response was horribly offensive. :/ please be considerate.
@jolyne
The conversation in this thread is long dead and many of the folks who contributed have long gone - over 11 years for the guy you replied to.
It feels really weird to be welcoming you to the forum in this crusty old fossil of a thead, but I'd really like to say welcome! It sounds like you have a considerable burden to carry, one that you must find is dreadfully misunderstood by all too many people around you. I hope you can find some kindred spirits here to understand, and maybe lighten the load, even if only a little.
If you feel able, do tell us something about yourself in the Introductions part of the forum:
https://www.infjs.com/forums/introductions.7/
hi! i'm a social work and psychology double major, so i'd love to answer your question.
it's not completely wrong, but not completely right either? we do fluctuate in our feelings and thoughts, hence the alternative name being "emotionally unstable personality disorder". i think the dependency you are referring to is the fact that splitting is a defense mechanism. i wouldn't say we are dependent on splitting, but it is a common way borderlines prevent real or imagined abandonment and uncontrollable emotional outbursts.
for example, i split on my therapist a few times for cancelling our sessions or for trying to send me back to a psychiatric hospital. in my mind, i felt betrayed and i was fearful she was trying to get rid of me somehow, or that she thought i was a bad client. obviously, this wasn't the case, and i recognize this now, but at the time i was unmedicated and didn't allow myself to think logically.
it's less of a dependency and more of a response to the fear of abandonment or harm. borderlines have such low self-esteem and lack of self-identity, so we receive all of our validation from other people. luckily, with therapy, medication, self-awareness, and healthy people in our lives, we can reject our initial beliefs and think through our feelings and thoughts through a logical lens.
i hope this helps!
o2b
Permanent Fixture
I struggle with knowing if I have BPD. I feel like I didn’t have it before I became close friends with someone that for sure does.
I have read that a codependent (hi) person enmeshed with a borderline will absorb the traits as a trauma response and the symptoms of both are basically cPTSD.
This is why I don’t understand my “BPD” experience. For me, I am very mellow. I have always felt I had a strong identity, just maybe not as part of the crowd. And I have good self-esteem, but it’s sad and embarrassing to fail at friendships, and that’s when self-hate comes in. I do like me. It just sucks that others don’t.
I do implode inside and “split” on people if I am not fully convinced they like me and have good intentions. It is a mental nightmare. But how do I know it’s not normal? I’ve heard everyone does this to a degree. I mean, look at any elementary school kid when they get upset about social problems.
Now that I know I am INFJ it seems to play in to all this. Makes me wonder if the MB types are segregated by their individual psychological struggles. Like INFJs are all the people with OCD, GAD, PTSD, etc.
Eh. Thoughts?