INFJ queerness

[iauiugu]

So there's a thread specifically for hetero INFJs because it's commonly believed that most INFJs are gay. So where are the non-straights here?

I'd rather not cause a useless headcount, so how do people believe their sexuality identity and personality types have interrelated and played off of each other in their lives?

Once I finally became secure enough with identifying as gay I sought out ways to support others coming into their identification. Counseling and supporting others has been instrumental for my own growth since, as I often realized things about myself only as others brought up their own experiences.

Furthermore in combination with my outsiderness as an adoptee, mixed-race kid from an all-white neighborhood, my sexuality has helped me achieve a deep understanding of social constructs and the illusion of difference. It's been good for my interests in Anthropology and Ceramics, but I feel like I am hitting a plateau.

 

[Saru Inc]

i dont believe in sexuality i believe we are all spirits and when we have sex our spirits combine through our bodies and create more spirits


srry im rly intune w/ myself

 

[5r6jhd]

because it's commonly believed that most INFJs are gay.

It's interesting that you say that as within the gay community Im often mistaken for a lesbian. I was working in africa for a while, and there were 4 lesbians in the house all of whom were shocked when I mentioned my boyfriend! I never understood why.

 

[WindUp]

Gay male here. Like the OP, being gay has given me great insights on humanity. I'm very keenly aware of social constructs and the injustice that is wrought by them. I'm also very compassionate of disenfranchised groups of people.

Although I'm not saying they are nonexistent, I've yet to meet a straight, male NF irl.

 

[just me]

Exactly how many male NFs have you met irl? Straight NF wants to know.

There may exist a realm where people can be themselves without crossing that line. My only hope here is not to be categorized with a group of people because of my personality type, as I am an individual. Never had my heart act funny around a man...or a boy. Women, on the other hand, have made my heart act up, do funny things, make a fool out of myself by trying to speak to them, and been with the same woman over 20 years without ever cheating on her. I've had gorgeous women make me downright uncomfortable enough to remember them still.

I really refuse to categorize male NF types as gay. Had my "little letters" keep me out of quite a bit of trouble. Make the best of what you have, I've been taught. Thank God for women.

 

[Rferraris]

straight guy here.
Not into guys. If I were, I'd be okay with it. Just not interested.

 

[iauiugu]

I'm pretty sure my awesome female INTJ friend's boyfriend is NF something, as he and I are similar in key ways that she has often commented on. He's definitely straight but is coming around to the idea of pegging.

I have another NT friend whose boyfriend is also probably an NF. Also similar to me. They're definitely a rare breed but still exist. Are there NF non-hetero women though?

It's interesting how socially gendered behavior and certain personality types have high correlation. I don't feel like I have learned enough about gender myths and bias to speak on it comfortably yet (Delusions of Gender waits patiently on my shelf) but I think there's a lot that can be learned from it, especially when it comes to challenging gender bias. I have an xNTJ teacher who was told that she would probably be more 'Thinking' if she wasn't a heterosexual woman. And sometimes it seems evident in her behavior that she is behaving in a less-than-comfortable way to conform to a gender norm.

Those who seem highly performative with their gender expression (stereotypic masculine gaits when they walk, excess meaningless aggression...) really make me uncomfortable in how evidently contrived it seems to be, since I've learned more about how social identity is constructed, opposed to just being on the outside of it for most of my life. I often wish people just wouldn't try so hard, not even for the sake of greater comfort for myself, or to begin dismantling the social scripts that keep a lot of people hostage, but just because it looks so uncomfortable to be so defensive of one's masculinity or have to do so much work to appear feminine due to the 'false consciousness' of internalized expectations. Does that make sense or are my niche academic interests confusing?

 

[just me]

I personally would not be so quick to judge people by a few. Confused? The avatar shows confusion to me and belongs in the mature threads. jmt

 

[knight in battle]

it's commonly believed that most INFJs are gay

I often wish people just wouldn't try so hard, not even for the sake of greater comfort for myself

I have noticed that security and self-esteem allow many people to disregard social scripts. It's not that they ignore these norms completely, but, far from rebelling from these scripts, they are actually comfortable being themselves and like themselves for it.

Since the majority of people are SJ and SP (to use MBTI as one example of behavioral description); their behaviors are literally the norm and social scripts are created around their behavior. My ENFJ sociology professor seemed adamant that there are different cultures "construct" gender and sexual orientation differently, yet she is also very "clear" about what the norms for our society are. Contradiction? In other words, people aren't "supposed" to violate norms. But norms are only majority behavior. Hence "N" behavior can often seem "abnormal" and given a specific label. But abnormality exists in degrees.

Sexual orientation is also a social construct. How attracted to one's gender does one need to be in order to be "gay"? Is sexual attraction only sexual? Is the emotional component a stronger basis for sexual attraction? Why not identify people by number on the Keirsey Scale instead of the named orientations? Who gets to decide? Will our concepts be different in ten years?

 

[GracieRuth]

Well, no one has ever EVER thought I was gay. I'm probably the most strongly gender roled person you'll ever know -- I actually have the audacity to say that our more androgenous society discriminates against people like me.

On the one hand, I think my relationships with the opposite sex are much more difficult and therefore have more depth. I enjoy experiencing the richness of life, so there is a part of me that feels badly that gays don't have this same opportunity. On the other hand, I'm very selfish, and quite frankly I just think there are some things gays do better, and that my life is much more fun because gay people are around. What woman doesn't value her gay hairstylist who knows her every secret and knows just what to do and say to make her feel really sexy. Would choirs even exist if there were no gay men? And I like to dance, and let's face it -- gay guys are just more inclined to like dancing too (and are often a lot better at it). Yeah I realize I'm talking about generalities. So what. I'm glad to have them around so there.

 

[iauiugu]

I have noticed that security and self-esteem allow many people to disregard social scripts. It's not that they ignore these norms completely, but, far from rebelling from these scripts, they are actually comfortable being themselves and like themselves for it.

Since the majority of people are SJ and SP (to use MBTI as one example of behavioral description); their behaviors are literally the norm and social scripts are created around their behavior. My ENFJ sociology professor seemed adamant that there are different cultures "construct" gender and sexual orientation differently, yet she is also very "clear" about what the norms for our society are. Contradiction? In other words, people aren't "supposed" to violate norms. But norms are only majority behavior. Hence "N" behavior can often seem "abnormal" and given a specific label. But abnormality exists in degrees.

Sexual orientation is also a social construct. How attracted to one's gender does one need to be in order to be "gay"? Is sexual attraction only sexual? Is the emotional component a stronger basis for sexual attraction? Why not identify people by number on the Keirsey Scale instead of the named orientations? Who gets to decide? Will our concepts be different in ten years?

I've been told that Straight: The Surprisingly Short History of Heterosexuality by Hanne Blank is a great text on how heterosexuality has been relatively recently constructed and immediately made invisible as a norm despite being the twin of homosexuality. It also sounds like a great place to start for entering critical theory and how most of what we interaction through is unconsciously modified by social constructs.

I am inclined to assume that your professor is referring to popular media as the determinant for how "our" society's norms are, regardless of culture's myriad formations.

I'm new to typology so I'm probably off base, but from what I've read it seems like SJs and SPs are more conformers than generators when identity norms are so significantly constructed by our media, which is private interests exerting their desires pretty much. otherwise I think NJs and NPs would be at the forefront of cultural change as those who "Sense" follow lead, as they are not inclined to analyze and modify the big pictures so much.

of course i am not considering how media doesn't control every little thing, but it's presence is so underrated as an unsalvageable abomination that i am compelled to bring it up.

 

[anarkandi]

Bi/genderqueer here. I'm quite aware about how sexuality and similar is constructed, but I still know straight INFJs who don't.

 

[Rferraris]

I'm not that old, (I tell myself) but the 20 something's and younger are much more comfortable living in a multi cross sexual world. And I think it's great. I am not 20, so no one really that age wants to hang out with me. And honestly I don't really want to hang out too much with them. So I'm not privied to too much information. And I don't have kids. Sorry, but can't stand them.
Not cause they aren't cute little piggy play balls. Because they are constant drags and need attention. I'm need too much time to myself. I need a lot of time to myself. I'd be the worst father. But my point I think is I don't have teenagers running around. So I don't have a lot of opportunities to see how they get along. I know how my generation got along and they were anything but accepting.

Funny thing is I've had so many friends over the years that were gay, I suspected of being gay, were straight but would bet your last dollar they were gay.

I realize it's so strange about me. So
strange about whatever INFJ is and being INFJ. I guess I'm easy to talk to. I guess I'm not judging. I guess I'm accepting. I guess I like to talk. A lot.
I think people that have struggles with fitting in find their way over by me.
I think I come across as not taking feeling out if place too seriously and they are wanting to learn from me why I don't care. Always felt out of place. never cared.

Funny to me that I am INFJ. Or an NF type. I don't walk around like I'm going to kick everyone's ass.
Even if I could. I think most people would never think to question. Yeah I'm married and live my girl for 20 years. But that doesn't mean anything. But maybe because I'm so willing to talk. I think maybe that might have confused some people into think ing I might get into being some sort of playmate. I often felt like they were disappointed when I didn't pursue them. Sorry man. Just not turn on by you. I love really pretty skinny well taken care of girls. I think most straight guys do.

So do any straight NF guys relate?

 

[knight in battle]

[MENTION=5303]iauiugu[/MENTION]

What you have said here will likely be received by conservatives and liberals alike. Heterosexuality is not only a social construct (recently conceived... and even more recently used as a political device by both conservatives and liberals); it is also often used to exaggerate the differences between persons of the same gender and thus to create social division.

I am inclined to assume that your professor is referring to popular media as the determinant for how "our" society's norms are, regardless of culture's myriad formations.

Very much. Her demeanor also suggests to her students that they "reinforce" and "obey" these so-called norms. Are they norms? She admits that there are different norms in different regions of society. But this is the subjectivity of sociology: it is a group of elitists who create and reinforce labels and is thus part of the problem (not that one needs to be derailed by labels; there will always be labelers).

I think NJs and NPs would be at the forefront of cultural change as those who "Sense" follow lead, as they are not inclined to analyze and modify the big pictures so much.

Yup. Change is probably an "N" word, in that context.
No matter what the culture seems to recommend as a whole, however, I can be a bit different from many people without feeling like I have to see changes in order to be "at home" in my own concepts. I think the majority of people are weirder (i.e., divergent from a normal range) than they are made to appear.

of course i am not considering how media doesn't control every little thing, but it's presence is so underrated as an unsalvageable abomination that i am compelled to bring it up.

It does seem this way. I also believe that cultures and subcultures control the media. The media doesn't seem to do what the cultural

 

[just me]

I've been typed as being...paranoid. Hate it. People just don't understand me. What some people see is not reality, but merely a misunderstanding.
My "paranoia" says there are people out there trying to get people to turn gay; trying to tell people it is the norm, when it is not. Heck, I don't try to make others paranoid. heh

 

[knight in battle]

I've been typed as being...paranoid. Hate it. People just don't understand me. What some people see is not reality, but merely a misunderstanding.
My "paranoia" says there are people out there trying to get people to turn gay; trying to tell people it is the norm, when it is not. Heck, I don't try to make others paranoid. heh

Since homosexuals are attracted to people of the same sex, there is little doubt that some of them do or would seek others of the same sex (gay or otherwise) in sexual activity. Your paranoia is justified from the perspective that sexuality is in many cases fluid.

 

[Falhalterra]

Well, I don't lean too far to the right or left of anything, including my sexual orientation, so I might as well admit that I'm bi-curious. I'm pretty much sexually attracted to women, but I do not want a relationship. Just my choice in particular.

The reason I label myself is I feel like I have to. Otherwise, I don't know how else to explain myself. So essentially I am kind of queer between mostly straight.

 

[bradgarbus]

We are definitely here, I think some might agree that while there are a few of us, we don't really like the label. We are definitely around.

 

[Tin Man]

Weird. I assumed this was going to be a thread about INFJs quirkiness and I was going to make a joke about myself believing this was a thread about INFJs being gay, only to find out this is indeed a thread about homosexual INFJs.

 

[Shaqie]

INFJ ... gay? Why? How come? What is the logic behind it?

Ps: I am sure no one will answer this question.