INFJ/ESTP compatibility

Motor Jax

Motor Jax

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just from the title, y'all probably know what i'm getting at

ok, so coke and myselfhave been discussing temperament types and the obstacles that we (probably have or will) face someday

like, i try to say that it is all good and i really don't see any problems, even when things look their worst. maybe its just my idealistic ideas and hopes and dreams of the perfect relationship that i perceive us in.

but there is the other side (my better half), that says everything is not as rosy as it appears. and so she does some research and sends me what looks like a doomsday letter:

a cut and paste within an email i recieved about our temperaments said:
ESTP/INFJ — Conflicting Relationships

These are relations of constantly developing conflict. Conflicting relations have the worst compatibility between partners among all other relations. However, it does not seem to be so obvious, especially in the earlier stages of development. Conflicting partners appear rather attractive, interesting and with impressive abilities.

Both partners are usually convinced that they can coexist and collaborate quite peacefully, but soon it becomes apparent that something is always going wrong, making their relationship problematic. Both partners may mistakenly think that the cause of these problems is minor and easily fixed and that all they need to do is to show a little bit more effort in understanding their partner.

Unfortunately, these attempts to continue pushing their relationship any further will soon provoke an open conflict between the partners. When conflict starts, partners hit each other with arguments exactly in the direction where they can cause maximum pain. In return, the other partner may counterattack even more aggressively. With every conflict these relations become worse and worse.

Although Conflicting partners show confidence where their partner is unconfident, they are unable to protect and take care of each other's weak points. This regularly brings disagreement and disappointment into these relations. When after several fruitless attempts to establish a stable relationship the partners give up and break the relationship, they feel saved and released.
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and i have also looked into it, and i have found hope... but in everyone that i have found, there is this section i have come to call 'The Bad News Section"

is there any way around this? can we turn these weaknesses into strengths? or is it something that is just inherent in us all?
 
#1 sign of hope: you done did your research, and you know there will be problems. Kudos to you! The fact that you've both done research is a sign that you know issues will come up. If you can ID what they are and how they come up, you are on your way towards conflict resolution.

So it'll be hard. You know what? There is NO such thing as the perfect relationship (keeps saying this to self . . .). If what you have is good now, and you want it to stay that way, decide now that you are in it for the long haul, and for better or worse, you WILL make it work.

IMO? You guys sound healthy. You sound compatible enough to work. perfect? No, but I doubt the sincerity of anyone claiming a perfect, conflict-free relationship. My INFJ'ness suspects anyone claiming perfection to be in denial. Those who have felt their relationships were perfect were the ones who have had spouses with affairs (and by perfect, I mean 100% free from any form of conflict).

Your conflict is a chance for growth, a challenge for understanding, and an opportunity for transcending love. Cokenut, don't let academia or research deter you. You deserve him, and he deserves you (with that I send my love)!! The fighter who trains well and works hard WILL win the prize. He is yours, and you are his! And none of us INFJ's would have it any other way. Though very similar, one thing this forum has accomplished it to testify that we are still very unique. MBTI wasn't meant to trap us into who we are, it was meant to enlighten us. Jax has a better idea how to improve communication, and so do you, by understanding what motivates and moves you. That would be sign of hope #2: you both see MBTI as a means for understanding each other. I know few couples who have so actively sought after this.
 
Motor Jax said:
but there is the other side (my better half), that says everything is not as rosy as it appears. and so she does some research and sends me what looks like a doomsday letter:
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Now, just for clarification .... I don't think we are doomed - but we both know that our relationship is going to take more work that the average relationship. I like to discuss these things because I want to make sure that we are still together 50 years from now (or until one of us meets the big guy). I guess we both feel good about us even if we do have issues but then you look at what is written about compatibility and you can't help but wonder if all the work in the world is going to make it ok.

Thanks for the support Kwistaline :)

I will say this about us ... the petty stuff is just that, and I know we can get by it all. The big stuff works out ok too (e.g. niether of us is in a rush to marry, neither wants anymore kids, neither wants to share the same roof, and we really love each other's kids). Its all the crap in the middle that trips us up sometimes! :roll:

TMD/MJ
 
a cut and paste within an email i recieved about our temperaments said:
ESTP/INFJ — Conflicting Relationships
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This is according to Socionics which has introverted feeling as the lead cognitive process of INFjs. An MBTI INFJ who uses introverted intuition would likely be a Socionics INFp although this isn't always the case. ESTp and INFp are Duals:

These relations are the most favourable and comfortable of all intertype relations providing complete psychological compatibility. Dual partners are like two halves of a whole unit. They usually understand each others intentions without any need to say a word. Dual will naturally protect your weak points and appreciate the strong ones without asking for anything in return. Interaction with your Dual allows you to be yourself without the need to adjust to your partner like in other relations. This often saves both partners a lot of energy which they can use for their own interesting activities. Conflicts between Duals are very rare and if there are any, they are normally short lived and solved without pain. Your Dual partner will love you just for what you are and if there is such a thing as true love then it could probably only occur in relations of Duality.

However, let's not idealise these relations too much. Although theoretically relations of Duality are the best of the best, practically not everybody who is your Dual will make your dreams come true. The reason for this is that we are usually so twisted up during the course of our lives that our already formed and stable views and attitudes can affect our relationships quite heavily. In fact, younger people have more chance to succeed in the quest for their perfect partner than older people. But the chances are always there. More..
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Here is a good link to read on type relationships: http://typeinsights.blogspot.com/2007/0 ... tions.html
 
Just for self-interest: Can you give example of tendencies you (MJ & Cockenut) get annoyed at about eachother? I would really need some personal data here, cause I need to get better visualized picture of what could be annoyances being with opposites.
 
i will describe from my point of view, about her:

*there is no stop. she has to do something, meet people and interact. one thing that i have some trouble getting used to is that there hasn't been a day to just sit back and be bored when she is over here. we are always doing somethingor meeting up with someone(s).

* i know her and her need for reminders of how much i care for her. over time, i have gotten used to showing my emotions to her

* wherever we go, she talks with anyone. we had went to a bar just recently and while i stood back by the wall with a budweiser and smoke and not saying anything, she had already struck up conversation with other people, and she must have an endless stock of jokes 'cause they would be laughing and talking. even if i were to go somewhere new, i usually would find a comfortable spot to go to, and just stay there until i feel comfortable with a place. even after i moved in with my aunt, i still have problems crossing the living room if there are people sitting in there.

* lol, she still doesn't understand why i crave solitude, but she puts with it.

* she likes bright and happy colors... but i love my solid dark colors, even over my windows... my rooms are like caves, but i think she tolerates it now...


from what i gather from interaacting with her parents; her mother seems to be ESTJ type, and her father seems more INTP... i think that is why i get along so well with her dad
 
Ha! this is like he said she said, lol!

Okay from my point of view ...

Yes I am non-stop, there is always something to do and get done in my life. In my defense, i always give him the option to participate, or politely decline whenever that is an option; sometimes it's just not. Like I was invited to a Halloween party the other night, and he was also, so I couldn't really go without him and I really wanted to go, so I took the "no honey I don't want people today" option away.

the good news is that we do understand each other and we take each other's needs into consideration. While we were at the party he went inside for something and after he was gone I needed to go to the bathroom. I waited until he returned to me then let him know where I was going and that i would be back in a few minutes. I knew that if he came back and didn't see me he would be anxious so I waited.

He does similar things for me, like when I go off and chat up whoever is playing at the table next to us, or when I participate in 3 simultaneous conversations when he is trying to keep up with the first one. He just watches and smiles and lets me be, he doesn't go off into a corner by himself and pout, he just puts on his party face and tries to keep up.

Things that annoy me ...

DARK colors - I mean like forrest green, black, burgundy ... WTF? Seriously, a little sunshine never hurt anyone!

Slow cooking - Who the hell invented that? Why would you put on a pot and torture yourself all day with the smell of food? Long live the inventor of the Pressure Cooker.

The alarm going off every ten minutes for TWO HOURS!!! Why? Why? Jeezus, get the hell outta be already! I have beaten his alarm clock for this and my look of warning sent him scurrying to turn off the other one ... yes you read correctly, the OTHER ONE ... he has two! WHY????????

Piles of projects - this is my favorite pet peeve because at least this one makes me laugh .... He has one pile each with his language learning (Spanish, French and German), another 3 piles contain his music (acordian, banjo, harmonica), yet another pile contains the stuff he's doing to his truck ... getting the pattern yet? I finally stopped putting stuff away ...
 
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Good thread! Well, I've done my research here as well, because my best friend is ESTP and he and I are planning on living with each other. He's the closest person to me outside of my immediate family~

Okay, so like blackbird said, in socionics where you got that description, the INFp shares their main functions with the INFJ of MBTI. Generally, I recognize more patterns in relationships when I use INFp instead of INFJ, although that may not be the case with everyone.
I'd say just screw socionics cuz there's too much conversion involved and it's too different.

http://www.lovetype.com/estptips.html
http://www.lovetype.com/infjtips.html
So, this site says that ESTPs and INFJs are matches (although it's inverted in your case; it says male ESTPs are best paired with female INFJs, but I really don't think that matters too much).

http://www.geocities.com/lifexplore/infj.htm
Go to the very bottom of the page and read the "mate" section.


I've heard a lot of contrasting views on this issue. I personally agree with the idea that the relationship can work, and work very well; it always has with me, and I have a really good feeling with mine.
But even if you look at our main functions:
INFJ: Ni, Fe, Ti, Se
ESTP: Se, Ti, Fe, Ni
We're opposites, but we're complementary. I believe that the relationship works because we bring out and strengthen the other's weaker main functions, but that's only a personal theory.

I dunno, but his playfulness and impulsiveness and zest for life just brighten my day. Sure, at times he's annoying (but I rarely get that feeling anymore), and sometimes we don't understand each other (I've never met someone that tried so hard, though). It's more like he helps me be the best I can be.

I think you guys will do fine :)
Although I would like to hear some more about your relationship to kind of prepare myself for what might be ahead >.>
 
As long as you respect each other for your differences it should work out. It is healthy too to think about the potential areas for problems. It sounds like you are both feeling types, which should make for an emotionally fulfilling relationship.

My ex-husband was more extroverted and he was always annoyed by my introversion. Every time we went somewhere, I would have to hear on the way back that I did not talk enough. It made me feel bad about who I was and in the end I just didn't think he could except me for me.

I can relate to the thing about projects. I am always ready to start a new one, but I try to reign it in. My boyfriend never mentions anything about all my interests, but I think he finds it semi-amusing.
 
Hey oceanic - No I'm no the feeling type at all, but that's actually why it works, he feels for me, and I make sure he's not always feeling something or daydreaming ...

of course he doesn't listen to me anyway .... I have strong shoulders and when he comes down from the clouds I pick him and his dreams up and we find a solution to the mess that happened while he was in lalaland.

He does the same for me of course .... like when I am ranting and raving and going on about something, he reminds me to calm down and tells me its going to be ok ... maybe lalaland isn't all that bad :)
 
Actually, I think it is a good balance between thinking and feeling. I don't know my boyfriend's MBTI type, but I would definitely think he'd be classified as the thinking type.

It works out as you mentioned, he helps me be more pragmatic and I help him try to enjoy some of the more subtle aspects of life. I have found since we have been together there has been a greater sense of balance and I am less likely to overindulge in daydreams. He's a scientist so it is easy for him to turn everything into a lab experiment and so for my part I help him to dream a little more.

It is boring to date yourself after all.
 
I’ve been following this discussion regarding relationships between INFJ and ESTP very closely. A couple of weeks ago, I met a male ESTP through a mutual friend and have enjoyed his company quite a bit J Initially, our communication started as email, then lengthy phone calls and we’ve actually met twice on what one might call a “date”. His actions and our communication would make it seem like he is quite interested in pursuing a long term relationship with me. However, I’ve read that ESTP’s are not likely to make long term commitments. While I do take this generalization with a grain of salt — it conflicts greatly with what this ESTP has said. He says (and his actions thus far have not been in conflict with his words) that he is looking for “Mrs. Right”. His goal is to marry and have children of his own. He was married for 16 years to a woman older than he and was a very involved step father to his ex-wife’s children from her previous marriage. He loved being a father. He is 43 and I am 36. We seem to have a lot in common so far in that we both enjoy traveling, music, spending time with family, etc. He’s somewhat of a home body but very friendly. Would you, CokeNut, or anyone else here be willing to give me some insight into your views on marriage, commitment or anything else that would you feel is pertinent?
Oh, and I've been on sort of a mental retreat processing this... I didn't disappear!
:m080:
 
He's already has the experience of long-term marriage (16 years is a long time...no offense, but many people here are in that age range give or take a few years), and he is still very involved as a step father, which I think shows a lot of dedication and devotion. Perhaps you have met someone who could be potentially good for you, take involvement seriously and wants a relationship to work. On the ESTP side I am totally out of my element.
 
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i am the INFJ male, CokeNut is the ESTP female...

in fact, we had the conversation just this past weekend (while we were doing some major yardwork at her parents house)...


...and i asked her, "what if the roles were reversed, with an ESTP male and INFJ female?"

Coke's immediate answer, "it won't work."

"why is do you think its not possible? i mean, we work out alright."

Coke states, "simply because of the gender roles of society. and in various societies, the women are raised to take care of the men. it would be too much of a strain on the INFJ female."


... she was getting at the point that the only we have worked out thus far, is because she is the ESTP female...

Both partners are usually convinced that they can coexist and collaborate quite peacefully, but soon it becomes apparent that something is always going wrong, making their relationship problematic. Both partners may mistakenly think that the cause of these problems is minor and easily fixed and that all they need to do is to show a little bit more effort in understanding their partner.
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... i read this and i reflect that Coke hasn't seen the spontaneous INFJ-y weird stuff that comes out (ie dancing in the living room at midnight with no music on, laughing for no apparent reason, see how many nights i can stay up without any sleep just for observation purposes, etc)... and i wonder, have i been that reserved around her?

i think its because i try to keep my composure around her, and so far have been successful...

... heh, i'm rambling...

... but i just got an e-mail from her yesterday (as i ran out of minutes on my prepaid phone) after i sent her one... saying that i had gone to a legal office and tried to do some paperwork, but that they wanted a certified copy of some papers... and that i stopped by a few places to see about the applications that i have turned in... and then a few words about how i feel about her...

*sigh*

... she responded with about 3 paragraphs about certified copies and how i have a hard time listening to her... and then she stated when she was coming over here...

:(

i'm just feeling pressured cause i haven't been able to find employment yet and my cousin and his g/f keep F^%King rubbing it in ("have a job yet?" "have a job yet?"... yea, well my skills are different that home health care to a paraplegic or pipe fitting/wielding)... disappointed with this economy and the creditors that have no mercy... pissed off that i have this idealistic dream, ideas, and how everything should have pristine, only to find that real world doesn't allow you to dream, that there is no fantasy, that dreams are only for the weak...

... maybe this should go in the Moods thread...
 
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Thanks for the reply, HolySmoke! Although, I'm always skeptical of people when I first meet them... he seems really nice! Interaction is very positive and I don't find him emotionally draining at all. He seems to be a very strong person and he's very attentive to my needs. He's taken the MBTI test for work before and asked me if I had. I really want to have children more than anything. I've resolved myself to the fact that at my age, I might not have the chance. So, if it were to work... there might hope for me after all! I don't want to get my hopes up, even though I'm very happy when I'm around him. Yes, this is sappy - but he makes my heart smile.
:m129:
 
Motor Jax said:
i'm just feeling pressured cause i haven't been able to find employment yet and my cousin and his g/f keep F^%King rubbing it in ("have a job yet?" "have a job yet?"... yea, well my skills are different that home health care to a paraplegic or pipe fitting/wielding)... disappointed with this economy and the creditors that have no mercy... pissed off that i have this idealistic dream, ideas, and how everything should have pristine, only to find that real world doesn't allow you to dream, that there is no fantasy, that dreams are only for the weak...

... maybe this should go in the Moods thread...
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Sorry to hear this. If you got a job, you'd call them, right? Let em know. Hey, got a job. Isn't that cool? Instead of "Hey cous, did you get a job, yet?" you reply, oh, yeah, *smacks forehead* I totally forgot to tell you. I got the most brilliant job and I start on Monday. Doubled my salary and it's just a two minute walk from home...
 
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