INFJ and ESTP relationship | INFJ Forum

INFJ and ESTP relationship

A

ashclayy

Newbie
Jul 31, 2013
21
3
0
MBTI
INFJ
Hey all,

I have been dating an ESTP for 3 and a half years now. It has been interesting to say the least. My boyfriend is a really fast talker, a doer, and need results immediately. "NOW NOW NOW" is his motto. He seems to have interests that are in and out the door in such a short amount of time. He also obsesses about material things. Cars seems to be his real interest. He doesn't understand or sense that I am not interested in a topic when he "over-talks" about something. He has to be doing something all the time. You can rarely ever go deep with him. 3 1/2 years of dating and we have never talked about future.

Recently I practically forced him to take a personality test and then everything in my little INFJ mind clicked. Up until recently I thought his actions were due to a troubled childhood or some major insecurities. Turns out that is just who he is. His personality doesn't go deep often and his comments come off crude or hurtful but apparently not on purpose. He challenges everything I say that he doesn't agree with or doesn't think is logical. With me being very sincere about everything I vocalize, I will argue to the death with him. It leaves me feeling very frustrated a lot of the time.

Until recently, thoughts about what my feelings meant and the connection to his actions were so jumbled in my head. It has taken me until yesterday to finally detangle my frustration and an empty feeling. Until yesterday, I thought it was ME.

He is very very needy with our love life. Until yesterday, I couldn't pinpoint his actions. I always deep down felt that sex was just physical for him and that he was being selfish. I will often turn him down because of that. I need that emotional, and he doesn't give that. He tries his heart out to "act" emotional. I think that is why I have been so confused. I see right though it but want to believe it at the same time.

So reading back through this, it seems to be a lot of negative. You may question why I am still with him.

Despite the childish acts, the seemingly selfish behavior, and the need to always be on the go, I do value him and appreciate him.
He is my best friend. He's silly. We love to do stuff together and have fun. I feel like even though he is not emotional, I can see into his heart. I see how much I mean to him even though he plays the "hard shell" kinda guy.

So I obviously know the responses that I am going to get. "Leave him." "You can find someone else." But that's not really the responses I am looking for. I am more interested in seeing if others have dated an ESTP and better ways to connect with him. We are total opposites and I do feel like something big is missing from us. I have a million wheels spinning in my head. Is there any way this relationship could become more connected?

Thanks,

Ashley
 
Been there! I feel for you. It's difficult when you are in your 20s and you're seeing everything through the long-term lens (especially because you're an INFJ). "Could I put up with this person for the rest of my life?" "What if I make the wrong decision and I'm trapped forever??" I think INFJs know logically they can't have one partner to fulfill all their needs, but their heart still wants it and they don't quite feel safe without it.

Here's the thing I can tell you looking at this situation from my 30s:

(a) I was so worried about the future in my 20s, I forgot to have fun (and enjoy the sex! I'm guessing that it might not be the kind of transcendent, soul-merging thing you're looking for, but when you are older you will looking back on the Se experience and smile. Remember it's just as much about the world you can see as the world you can't. I live in my head so much I often forget that.)

(b) Your life is only going to get more stable from here on out--it might not feel like it, but in 10 years you'll have a mortgage, a career, and a family. Don't forget the importance of having an exciting partner who pushes you to try new things. Yes, you'll always want to go deep with people, but after 30 years you will get tired of living so much in your head. It's relatively easy to extravert in your 20s because everyone always wants to go out and have a good time. When you are older, it will take a lot more work to get out and do things. You will be much more at risk of loneliness, even if you do have an amazing partner. If you have a partner who is naturally extraverted, that will help.

(c) You will never change your partner truly and there's actually very little you can do to improve a relationship beyond devoting time and patience. I have an ISTJ husband who I've gotten to open up a little about his feelings over the course of our relationship, but he will never give me the same Fe satisfaction as my ENFP and ESFJ friends. I wish I had accepted that a long time ago (and known about MBTI!) If I could go back and change one thing about my 20s it would be to work on my friendships instead of my relationship. Intimate relationships come naturally to INFJs and yet we obsess about improving them. It's a waste of time! In actuality its the not-so-intimate relationships with friends and acquaintances that need our attention most.

So I guess my main piece of advice would be to take the focus off your relationship with this guy and put it on getting your emotional needs met with friends. Your feelings about the relationship might actually improve. Remember, the fact that a guy can't meet your emotional needs is NOT a red flag. It's just reality. Also, don't feel the need to settle down and figure out who is "the one" right now. INFJs don't naturally play the field, but we really ought to! You have a long life ahead of you. Enjoy it!

Good luck! I feel like I'm writing a letter to my younger self so I really want you to be happy!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blind Bandit
(a) I was so worried about the future in my 20s, I forgot to have fun (and enjoy the sex! I'm guessing that it might not be the kind of transcendent, soul-merging thing you're looking for, but when you are older you will looking back on the Se experience and smile. Remember it's just as much about the world you can see as the world you can't. I live in my head so much I often forget that.)
Click to expand...

You are so right!!! I have a hard time enjoying the sex because I feel like it's not meaningful enough and doesn't deserve my enjoyment. I forget that there are so many other ways to look at the world instead of just though my lense. To him sex and pleasure does mean something to him. I need to stop looking just though my lense and try to look through his. If he is enjoying himself.. why can't I?

(b) Your life is only going to get more stable from here on out--it might not feel like it, but in 10 years you'll have a mortgage, a career, and a family. Don't forget the importance of having an exciting partner who pushes you to try new things. Yes, you'll always want to go deep with people, but after 30 years you will get tired of living so much in your head. It's relatively easy to extravert in your 20s because everyone always wants to go out and have a good time. When you are older, it will take a lot more work to get out and do things. You will be much more at risk of loneliness, even if you do have an amazing partner. If you have a partner who is naturally extraverted, that will help.
Click to expand...

I do feel like I take more than give in this situation. With him being a total extrovert he is always on the go. He wants to do do do on the weekends and I would rather stay in and enjoy the quiet. This causes a lot of frustration for him and for me. Maybe I just need to suck it up and go on these adventures that he persuades me to embark on all the time. I just have a hard time expressing excitement when I am full-up and need some alone time. He tells me I act like I am 70 because I go to bed early and have strict rules I set for myself. You are right though, I need to loosen up and enjoy myself. I make myself miserable when I have to do something I don't want to. Change of attitude needs to happen.. I just don't know how completely...

(c) You will never change your partner truly and there's actually very little you can do to improve a relationship beyond devoting time and patience. I have an ISTJ husband who I've gotten to open up a little about his feelings over the course of our relationship, but he will never give me the same Fe satisfaction as my ENFP and ESFJ friends. I wish I had accepted that a long time ago (and known about MBTI!) If I could go back and change one thing about my 20s it would be to work on my friendships instead of my relationship. Intimate relationships come naturally to INFJs and yet we obsess about improving them. It's a waste of time! In actuality its the not-so-intimate relationships with friends and acquaintances that need our attention most
Click to expand...

You're right again! Gosh it's nice talking to other INFJs... You understand where I am coming from and I get what you're saying.. Ahhh.. Anyways, I really do appreciate my boyfriend. I would be lost without him and I am not interested in splitting off from him. There is more good than bad. But there is also a lot of frustration. (Mostly on my part, but his part as well). I guess what gets to me the most is the fact that I don't really understand HIM. I don't understand how someone could want something physical solely to get their needs met. In my mind that's a user. How could I mean something to him if he is initally doing it for his own benefit? I guess that is why I don't want sex or anything intimate half of the time. I questioned him about it last night and he said that he does it to please me and that he likes when he makes me happy in an intimate way. Hmmm... I guess I need to study up on him and find a common ground to accept his way of thinking.

As far as friends go, I guess I do need to stop being so anti-social and actually make an effort and go see them more. I work in customer service and go home menally drained a lot so hanging out with friends is usually at the bottom of the list. I will trust your advice and make more plans with friends!

Thank you so much for your input!! I have been thinking about this matter so intensely since 4 this morning that I came to work and actually forgot how to do something I do everyday! So not like me!

Ashley
 
Oh my gosh, you are me!! When I got out of school, I worked tirelessly at my job, and I would come home exhausted from extraverting all day and not have the energy to do the friend thing. And since you have an ESTP man, you must be drained. I totally get it. But it's SO important to not give up. You can do it!

Schedule out your introversion time and do it throughout your day. Take regular breaks from work, and go somewhere where no one can bother you (even if you feel guilty or weird doing it!). Hide in the bathroom if you have to and just zone out. Don't try to do anything productive no matter how much you feel the urge. Just zone out and breathe and let that Ni have time to subconsciously process everything that's been happening. It does help even though your rational mind doesn't think it does.

As far as your guy goes, I like to think of ESTPs this way: they are like inside-out INFJs. They are like the people we are afraid to be, the personification of instinct, our shadow selves. We seem to know--and fear--that we have the same base instincts. And whereas we spend all of our time dreaming of ways to do something powerful, they just jump in a car and drive really fast and there it is: power. They can't understand why we don't just do the same thing!

I think ESTPs use material objects to do physically what we are trying to do mentally: deeply experience power and passion. It only seems shallow because we don't understand how to manipulate reality the way they do. Instead of looking at it as materialism, try to think about how he can help you translate what goes on in your head into the physical world. INFJs always try to do it through words, but we also need to learn to do it through action. Not only is it one of the keys to fulfillment for us, I think, but oh my god he is going to be floored when he sees all of the power inside you in physical form. He senses it's there--otherwise he wouldn't be with you.

We INFJs have the same intense lust for life as ESTPs--we just need their help showing it!
 
Hahaha, this is interesting and I hope the best for you.

I agreed with [MENTION=9478]ivagrey[/MENTION] in a sense;
As far as your guy goes, I like to think of ESTPs this way: they are like inside-out INFJs. They are like the people we are afraid to be, the personification of instinct, our shadow selves. We seem to know--and fear--that we have the same base instincts. And whereas we spend all of our time dreaming of ways to do something powerful, they just jump in a car and drive really fast and there it is: power. They can't understand why we don't just do the same thing!


I think ESTPs use material objects to do physically what we are trying to do mentally: deeply experience power and passion. It only seems shallow because we don't understand how to manipulate reality the way they do.
Click to expand...
INFJs and ESTP are polar opposites in terms of functions; that means what we see as of the UTMOST importance (long-term planning, 'the big picture', the 'deep stuffs'), they are seeing it as the LAST and vice versa.
Especially when you're in your 20s! Where amongst many things, people are still growing and maturing and rounding their personalities, not to mention 'achieving' stuffs. Which can be very frustrating I believe. *hugs*

Although I believe part of our growth is that we rounded our functions-- INFJs (or INTJs) learn to enjoy and deal with the now and the sensory pleasures; and ESTPs (or ESFPs) will learn to take things deeper and see thing with a more 'deeper' connection than their logical train. This does not mean you should become them and they should become you-- just that you can take lessons from them and vice versa--

If he and you are staying this long I suspect he might have learned some things from you too.
Remember, the fact that a guy can't meet all of your emotional needs is NOT a red flag. It's just reality.
Click to expand...
Added. I personally believe this. If the guy doesn't fulfill any of your emotional needs, something may have been really off, but demanding all......might have been unrealistic.

I would try to compromise. Explain your reasoning, explain what you think his reasoning and rationales are. Ask for understanding that the two of you have different styles of dealing with things and doing things-- and one should not overlap the other. Ask for compromising; for example, for one weekend you could accompany him with his adventures and then for the next he could accompany you in your alone time (or, he could leave you alone).

With the understanding that you crave the emotional closeness from him and you understand that he seeks-- more of a physical sensation kind of excitement from sex, perhaps have that talk about how you can achieve both.
 
Have you talked to your boyfriend about how you feel?
 
Thank you for all the replies! Last night Ivagrey's posts really made things click for me. It turns out my frustration and emotional emptiness was due to me not understanding my boyfriend very well. It didn't make sense to me why material items meant so much to him and how he could just spontaneously want sex at any given moment. I thought he was just self centered and shallow.

Last night I did my best to think of him as my flip-flop. What I was able to imagine was that inside my brain I am constantly going on adventures and fast talking. I also challenge everything and bring it back up in my mind a zillion times until I reach a conclusion. He is who I am on the inside on the outside. (If that makes sense :p)

So last night when he constantly was talking and challenging me on what I was saying I couldn't stop smiling. I wanted to just hug him and tell him how much I appreciated him. I think the way their brain works (this is just my guess) is that in order to come to a conclusion about something they will continuously challenge something they don't agree with to make sense of it in their brain. We will have drawn out arguments about something silly and he will completely disagree with me and then he'll agree with me about the same thing a week later.

We have helped each other through the years. I have helped him stay grounded and more responsible and he has helped me come out of my shell a ton.

We have talked about our personality clashes many times. I think he is just as confused about me as I was about him. He always asks me what it is like to have emotions and to be so calm. And I was always asking him why he is so spazzy. He tells me he doesn't know he just has to go and if he doesn't he goes crazy. He tries his best to be understanding (even though he doesn't understand me at all) and gives me space every night for a couple hours. I try to accompany him on his little quests for fun.

I think things are going to really look up for us as a couple. If I can't live without my Intuition and my quests and adventures in my brain; I will not withhold from him the things he needs in the physical world anymore. He's going to be a happy boy.

Thanks again,
Ashley
 
Wow I haven't been to this forum for such a long time. Actually, since last I was here, I've broken up with a girlfriend who was an ESTP, and gotten a new girlfriend who I suspect is more an INFJ like me.

I just want you to understand that I can really see where you're coming from. It's hard to be a feely introvert in a relationship with someone who seems to just want to travel the world and talk to everybody they meet. As much as I'd love to explore: the fact is that it's 2:24 PM on a Saturday, I'm sitting in my underwear with no light but the PC screen, writing on this forum for the first time in ages. And I'm okay with it.

My tip would to read about ESTPs and INFJs together and talk about how you're different. It helped my previous relationship quite a bit, even though we at last found it too hard to go on. Best of luck to you :)
 
technics said:
No. The connection you are longing for you will only find with an NF.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily NFs only, but ESTPs are incredibly shallow and self-centered and it's impossible to connect to that.
 
technics said:
What alternatives do you suggest?
Click to expand...

I have had a deep connection with an ISFJ, very warm and caring. I have also had a sort of 'meeting of the minds' with an INTJ, we just seemed to understand each other better than most.

It's easy to feel more connected to many other types than to ESTPs. They are easily bored and always looking for the next fun and exciting thing to do so a stable relationship is difficult. They need constant stimulation so unless you are constantly 'entertaining' to them in some way they will either totally ignore you or pick a fight for entertainment purposes. It's also very difficult to have an in depth conversation with them because they have to always be right, even when they know they are wrong. They are very competitive, so even agreeing to disagree is very difficult for them.

I don't have much experience with other NF types, only my oldest son who is an ENFP. I can definitely have more in depth conversations with him than with my other son who is an ISTP, but they're my children so I obviously feel very connected to them no matter what type they are.

I think for me it seems the ST combination is the one I have more trouble with, if they are an N or if they are an F than I can find some common ground to connect with.
 
La Sagna said:
Not necessarily NFs only, but ESTPs are incredibly shallow and self-centered and it's impossible to connect to that.
Click to expand...

You know I would have less trouble with this statement if you would have said, "I find". To make blanket statements about types is called typism and on some forums, gets you infracted.

One of the main differences between introverts and extroverts is what Jung called the orientation to the object. You can think of the object as the Other, or other people. Extroverts tend to lean toward seeing how the object/other is similar/alike to themselves. This naturally makes one feel more gregarious toward outsiders because you naturally connect to what you find alike, hence the increase in gregariousness. Introverts tend to lean toward seeing how the object/other is different/apart from themselves. This naturally makes one feel less social toward the other but makes you more individually stable/secure about your own ideas and sense of self.

ESTPs functions are vastly different from an INFJ but that difference doesn't equate to "right or wrong".
 
Nixie said:
You know I would have less trouble with this statement if you would have said, "I find". To make blanket statements about types is called typism and on some forums, gets you infracted.

One of the main differences between introverts and extroverts is what Jung called the orientation to the object. You can think of the object as the Other, or other people. Extroverts tend to lean toward seeing how the object/other is similar/alike to themselves. This naturally makes one feel more gregarious toward outsiders because you naturally connect to what you find alike, hence the increase in gregariousness. Introverts tend to lean toward seeing how the object/other is different/apart from themselves. This naturally makes one feel less social toward the other but makes you more individually stable/secure about your own ideas and sense of self.

ESTPs functions are vastly different from an INFJ but that difference doesn't equate to "right or wrong".
Click to expand...


I suppose I should have said 'I find' as you suggested...but nowhere in that line do I said that they are wrong. The ESTPs that I know wear their self-centeredness and shallowness like a badge. They don't understand why the rest of us aren't more like them. It works quite well for them. It just doesn't work if your looking for a 'connection' because they really don't seem to be into that at all. All the ones I know are very independent.

I'm surrounded by extroverts so I know how they are but I had a strong connection with my ESFJ dad and my ESFP mom, even if they didn't quite understand me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back