I agree. Autism tends to be those who are super T. Williams Syndrome are super F. Gross overgeneralization, but whatever.
INFJ and Autism
- Thread starter TheFoolishOwl
- Start date
I agree. Autism tends to be those who are super T. Williams Syndrome are super F. Gross overgeneralization, but whatever.
I relate very much with the first 2 paragraphs of your post! Thank you!
Wow...that is a lot to chew on... I didn't realize that.
I am close to the spectrum, borderline Asperger's. My younger brother has it [he's actually going to college in Minnesota], and my older brother has autism.
I have to agree with you on a number of things. I find myself staring at a persons face as they are talking [apparently its more socially appropriate to "take breaks", look around momentarily..doesn't make sense to me.] because 1.] I find people incredibly fascinating and 2.] Sometimes I miss something vital if I am not staring at them the whole time! Maybe not, but to me, I can't let myself have any slack in that particular area.
-Anna
I know this is an ancient post, but I didn't want to create a new topic. I thought the discussion on here was rather interesting. (I found it through google trying to understand myself and how Fe works.)
I have high functioning autism. Diagnosed PDD NOS at age 6. (I think now they've changed things up, dropped that and just classify it in the High Functioning Autism, but that's whole 'nother topic).
This is just a guess, my understanding of what is really going on changes as I gain awareness, but I think to understand Fe I had to generate "Fi" by combining inward intuition and thinking. I also had to develop "Si" in order to be able to use Fe. I could be off base in my understanding, but I know for sure whatever is going on, I had to take on some form of self awareness to understand what is going on. Thus why I kind of sway between INFP, INTP, INFj and INTJ. It seems when I am in "INFP" mode it drains me, and I feel insecure after a while, so that was what tipped me off that I may not actually be that type even though I learned to synthesize some of its functions.
That said, I seem to have si (or generated it from se - haven't figured out exactly what is happening) which is a blessing for being able to understand others, but it isn't something I can dwell on or I get uncertain of myself in the current moment. I doubt I can utilize it well for making judgements, but I can use it as a cross reference to recognize past mistakes, but new experiences can be tricky. I get torn/ shift between trying my past experience or what tends to happen: Try to empathize with them by getting a read of their feelings and think about emphasizing with them. When I get it, the other person is happy, we have a positive experience, and I feel happy that I helped those around me. They are at peace, I'm at peace, everyone is happy and I am happy. When it goes badly, they are visibly upset, annoyed, critical, or feel awkward. I get a feeling of surprize or shock, and then that is when I try to turn to my past memories to break down the moment into components and try to figure out where I went wrong so I can try to adjust my future behavior to have a positive outcome for the next person I meet. Lately I've been factoring it could be a mistake on their end too, but I have to practice tolerance and keep that in mind for the next time.
Absent of nonverbal communication, I seem to have better use of Fe, but I still kind of switch back and forth, trying to loop back, zoom out to understand self and then turn around and view the other person. It is a bit slower process and if I am drained, I can forget to answer replies, forget to answer emails, or if I do remember, there's this sensation of "I want to say something but I don't know what. I need to say something, but I can't externalize it."
I get that feeling in public too. Especially if someone is opening up and expressing their problems. I really want to help them. I'll say things like "I'm really sorry to hear. I hope things work out." and it may help or backfire. If it backfires I go into hermit mode for a while, just kind of internalizing the sensation of I need to say something but can't figure out what.
It seems for me my Ti and Fe are switched. More like an INTJ, but because I feel the need and desire to empathise, I am usually striving to develop some sort of feeling preference.
---------
Other details:
Anyways at about age 2-3:
I remember not knowing a sense of self at all. I was the environment. Literally the entire scene of what can be captured visually. My hands just kind of floated. Thoughts drifted in and out. I remember single words popping up. Hearing my parents talk. I can tell their emotions. Whatever they felt, just kind of blended in with the whole experience.
Age 5-6: It puzzled me that I was just an "existence" while other people had an entire body. I could see their eyes but not my own. I could see my body, but it wasn't from the same perspective as theirs.
I started asking others "Do you see your face/eyes?" And always got a confused response no matter who I asked. I would ponder over that question, wonder why they were confused. I kept asking, trying to refine the question. "If you look in a mirror?" I had the feeling I was somehow odd and different that my "self" looked vastly different than theirs.
Age 4-5 was also when I started verbalizing my thoughts. Prior to that I thought the monologue in my head *was* the external communication. Even as I remember it, I still remember it as verbal speech, but know from asking others that I did not talk, or if I did I was whispering or only saying parts of my sentences.
Age 6-7: Figured out all people have the "problem" of "not seeing their own faces sans a mirror. Each person has their individual thought strings and that I am not alone with what I was experiencing. That was a sense of comfort and also a generator of more questions. I also found out about my diagnosis.
6-10: Realized I was different than everyone, had my disability. I pondered over if I really had it or just didn't understand how to behave. Thought I could try, but usually my focus was whatever I watched in front of me and the thought strings that monologued in my head. Questions of "why do I exist" "What does being alive mean?" generated. I'm sure I was picking up emotions from others, but not consciously processing them.
The output: after school I'd be drained, need to be by myself, but at the same time be so overwhelmed with emotion, I needed to release it, but not sure what it was I felt. I just knew it wasn't comfortable. I'd be crying, upset, and not sure why.
Age 11- present:
Learned more about autism, met other people with autism and connected. It was a huge relief to know I wasn't alone, and that their struggles mirrored what I was struggling with. That was a huge relief, and helped me grow to understand myself, and in turn understand other people and the world around me. That is what I've been using since. I can pass almost as a non autistic person, but at times of stress, I lose the Fe, retreat a degree and have awkward exchanges with people, because I can feel there is something they are looking for and that my response didn't satisfy them. At work this translates to me trying to keep talking to offer something, but further annoy the person. I feel lost with a sense of confusion and they feel angry, annoyed, confused, and in their mind I'm sure the thought loops are: "Wow how tactless, rude she is."
Fortunately as I keep on trying to interact, it gets better, and I seem to develop Fe stronger, rely less on having to generate "Fi" and "Si", but I still can fall back. A good coping strategy is to write down my thoughts, post them and then observe how they change over time.
Met her once in person. Kind of an awkward rude moment where were were eating at the same table. I had a very methodical approach to eating broccoli, which she did not approve of. Rather bluntly she told me "You eat like a pig." Which at the time hurt my feelings. Making it worse she used it as a topic in her speech after the meal. Embarrassed, I kind of lost respect for her (at the time) and used that experience to check myself if the reverse is to happen and I'm the one doing the public speech. (I don't want to generate that same level of shame/ embarrassment in others) if I can recognize it.
I'm not sure I can type her either, but I can say, whatever she has, she does appear to utilize intuition combined with Si very well. Her speech went on about how she can visualize things from an animal's perspective. To gain a better mental visual image in her head, she goes through physically experiencing what she views the animals must be experiencing. (crawl through tunnels, wear some of the equipment, etc) She draws up on those past experiences.
Also a clear thing she noted about herself that is telling: She said she remembers specific people and places when she thinks about the future. She made it very clear in her speech that she does *NOT* see a general mental visual image of a dog or family. She sees dogs she's met in her past. She may be able to switch the image, but it always draws from her past.(Si). Family = her family. Experiences = what she experienced in the past. This is a strength of hers, one that she was/is very proud/ clearly boastful of. (compared her mind to a file cabinet of photographs and past experiences.)
This is just a random guess, but I think she may be utilizing something in the INFP, INTP, INTJ, axis if she isn't using a sensing preference. (Factoring autism, the "F" part may be dropped to the bottom of her stack if she is an IN) Likely she's an _ST_ type. I'm inclined to believe her intuition is stronger than her sensing preference, just based on how well she maps out things in her mind. But her sensing preference is very well developed.
The sticking points for me is her great ability to generate a mental visual image, but it is drawn from her actual experiences. Thus her need to actually experience the stuff she uses for her intuitive map. She seems to need Si to generate her mental visual. I'm thinking Ne dominant (?) for the ability to generate new possibilities drawing from her Si. Or if she's using Ni, the Se is mimicking Si and helping her to visualize whatever specific mental map she's working on at the time.
That said, her memory of the past is very accurate. I met her briefly a year or two after that meeting and she, rather casually but still rather pointed and directly, asked me how my eating manners were.
Me: no verbal answer, but I did change my method of eating.
I have high functioning autism. Diagnosed PDD NOS at age 6. (I think now they've changed things up, dropped that and just classify it in the High Functioning Autism, but that's whole 'nother topic).
This is just a guess, my understanding of what is really going on changes as I gain awareness, but I think to understand Fe I had to generate "Fi" by combining inward intuition and thinking. I also had to develop "Si" in order to be able to use Fe. I could be off base in my understanding, but I know for sure whatever is going on, I had to take on some form of self awareness to understand what is going on. Thus why I kind of sway between INFP, INTP, INFj and INTJ. It seems when I am in "INFP" mode it drains me, and I feel insecure after a while, so that was what tipped me off that I may not actually be that type even though I learned to synthesize some of its functions.
That said, I seem to have si (or generated it from se - haven't figured out exactly what is happening) which is a blessing for being able to understand others, but it isn't something I can dwell on or I get uncertain of myself in the current moment. I doubt I can utilize it well for making judgements, but I can use it as a cross reference to recognize past mistakes, but new experiences can be tricky. I get torn/ shift between trying my past experience or what tends to happen: Try to empathize with them by getting a read of their feelings and think about emphasizing with them. When I get it, the other person is happy, we have a positive experience, and I feel happy that I helped those around me. They are at peace, I'm at peace, everyone is happy and I am happy. When it goes badly, they are visibly upset, annoyed, critical, or feel awkward. I get a feeling of surprize or shock, and then that is when I try to turn to my past memories to break down the moment into components and try to figure out where I went wrong so I can try to adjust my future behavior to have a positive outcome for the next person I meet. Lately I've been factoring it could be a mistake on their end too, but I have to practice tolerance and keep that in mind for the next time.
Absent of nonverbal communication, I seem to have better use of Fe, but I still kind of switch back and forth, trying to loop back, zoom out to understand self and then turn around and view the other person. It is a bit slower process and if I am drained, I can forget to answer replies, forget to answer emails, or if I do remember, there's this sensation of "I want to say something but I don't know what. I need to say something, but I can't externalize it."
I get that feeling in public too. Especially if someone is opening up and expressing their problems. I really want to help them. I'll say things like "I'm really sorry to hear. I hope things work out." and it may help or backfire. If it backfires I go into hermit mode for a while, just kind of internalizing the sensation of I need to say something but can't figure out what.
It seems for me my Ti and Fe are switched. More like an INTJ, but because I feel the need and desire to empathise, I am usually striving to develop some sort of feeling preference.
---------
Other details:
Anyways at about age 2-3:
I remember not knowing a sense of self at all. I was the environment. Literally the entire scene of what can be captured visually. My hands just kind of floated. Thoughts drifted in and out. I remember single words popping up. Hearing my parents talk. I can tell their emotions. Whatever they felt, just kind of blended in with the whole experience.
Age 5-6: It puzzled me that I was just an "existence" while other people had an entire body. I could see their eyes but not my own. I could see my body, but it wasn't from the same perspective as theirs.
I started asking others "Do you see your face/eyes?" And always got a confused response no matter who I asked. I would ponder over that question, wonder why they were confused. I kept asking, trying to refine the question. "If you look in a mirror?" I had the feeling I was somehow odd and different that my "self" looked vastly different than theirs.
Age 4-5 was also when I started verbalizing my thoughts. Prior to that I thought the monologue in my head *was* the external communication. Even as I remember it, I still remember it as verbal speech, but know from asking others that I did not talk, or if I did I was whispering or only saying parts of my sentences.
Age 6-7: Figured out all people have the "problem" of "not seeing their own faces sans a mirror. Each person has their individual thought strings and that I am not alone with what I was experiencing. That was a sense of comfort and also a generator of more questions. I also found out about my diagnosis.
6-10: Realized I was different than everyone, had my disability. I pondered over if I really had it or just didn't understand how to behave. Thought I could try, but usually my focus was whatever I watched in front of me and the thought strings that monologued in my head. Questions of "why do I exist" "What does being alive mean?" generated. I'm sure I was picking up emotions from others, but not consciously processing them.
The output: after school I'd be drained, need to be by myself, but at the same time be so overwhelmed with emotion, I needed to release it, but not sure what it was I felt. I just knew it wasn't comfortable. I'd be crying, upset, and not sure why.
Age 11- present:
Learned more about autism, met other people with autism and connected. It was a huge relief to know I wasn't alone, and that their struggles mirrored what I was struggling with. That was a huge relief, and helped me grow to understand myself, and in turn understand other people and the world around me. That is what I've been using since. I can pass almost as a non autistic person, but at times of stress, I lose the Fe, retreat a degree and have awkward exchanges with people, because I can feel there is something they are looking for and that my response didn't satisfy them. At work this translates to me trying to keep talking to offer something, but further annoy the person. I feel lost with a sense of confusion and they feel angry, annoyed, confused, and in their mind I'm sure the thought loops are: "Wow how tactless, rude she is."
Fortunately as I keep on trying to interact, it gets better, and I seem to develop Fe stronger, rely less on having to generate "Fi" and "Si", but I still can fall back. A good coping strategy is to write down my thoughts, post them and then observe how they change over time.
Met her once in person. Kind of an awkward rude moment where were were eating at the same table. I had a very methodical approach to eating broccoli, which she did not approve of. Rather bluntly she told me "You eat like a pig." Which at the time hurt my feelings. Making it worse she used it as a topic in her speech after the meal. Embarrassed, I kind of lost respect for her (at the time) and used that experience to check myself if the reverse is to happen and I'm the one doing the public speech. (I don't want to generate that same level of shame/ embarrassment in others) if I can recognize it.
I'm not sure I can type her either, but I can say, whatever she has, she does appear to utilize intuition combined with Si very well. Her speech went on about how she can visualize things from an animal's perspective. To gain a better mental visual image in her head, she goes through physically experiencing what she views the animals must be experiencing. (crawl through tunnels, wear some of the equipment, etc) She draws up on those past experiences.
Also a clear thing she noted about herself that is telling: She said she remembers specific people and places when she thinks about the future. She made it very clear in her speech that she does *NOT* see a general mental visual image of a dog or family. She sees dogs she's met in her past. She may be able to switch the image, but it always draws from her past.(Si). Family = her family. Experiences = what she experienced in the past. This is a strength of hers, one that she was/is very proud/ clearly boastful of. (compared her mind to a file cabinet of photographs and past experiences.)
This is just a random guess, but I think she may be utilizing something in the INFP, INTP, INTJ, axis if she isn't using a sensing preference. (Factoring autism, the "F" part may be dropped to the bottom of her stack if she is an IN) Likely she's an _ST_ type. I'm inclined to believe her intuition is stronger than her sensing preference, just based on how well she maps out things in her mind. But her sensing preference is very well developed.
The sticking points for me is her great ability to generate a mental visual image, but it is drawn from her actual experiences. Thus her need to actually experience the stuff she uses for her intuitive map. She seems to need Si to generate her mental visual. I'm thinking Ne dominant (?) for the ability to generate new possibilities drawing from her Si. Or if she's using Ni, the Se is mimicking Si and helping her to visualize whatever specific mental map she's working on at the time.
That said, her memory of the past is very accurate. I met her briefly a year or two after that meeting and she, rather casually but still rather pointed and directly, asked me how my eating manners were.
Me: no verbal answer, but I did change my method of eating.
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Hello, it’s a pleasure to meet all of you. My name is Colin Newman, and I would like to say that your MBTI does not determine whether your autistic or not simply because autism is a spectrum. ASD has a wide range of symptoms and traits that it shares with many other disorders. I myself was diagnosed with both high functioning autism and ADHD, yet I am for sure an INFJ. As a child fitting in was never easy I had a fascination with things that my peers were not interested in, such as space, dinosaurs and other scientific things. However I also had high levels of empathy, so much so that I was highly sensitive to the pain of others. What I’m trying to say is that like most things autism is a spectrum. If you met one Autistic person only means you have met that kind of person, not the group.
Rowan Tree
Community Member
As an INFJ on the spectrum, I absolutely agree and really relate to your experiences. I was saying something similar on a different thread. Moreover, I think new ideas on autism help explain how INFJ high functioning autism can be considered to operate and what one might expect:
This article is highly informative. Thank you very much, NiennaLadyOfTears.
I fit the Empathy Imbalance theory. Other people's feelings come through strongly to me, but I misinterpret them, and I am easily distressed by them.
Colin, your'e sure you're an INFJ. Did you read the article?
I'm not sure I'm an INFJ. According to what it theorizes, I strongly feel the presence of people's emotions; therefore, I have Emotional Empathy; but I misinterpret them, so I lack Cognitive Empathy.
I register emotions going on around me, but I'm ill-equipped to deal with them in a socially appropriate manner without analyzing them intellectually. It's a learned response, which takes effort and energy.
Raw emotions overwhelm me. For example, if an animal is suffering pain, I will immediately rescue it. If a person becomes angry at me, it will trigger my "fight or flight" response.
I need time to think about my response, to write it down, analyze it, and rehearse it. I prefer to cite laws and use the power structure to win an argument. In an emotional conflict, I find it hard to defend values. I hate it when people invalidate my feelings.
I'm high-functioning on the autism scale, and I do think that autism could affect the outcome of a personality type test.
Is it Cognitive Empathy that makes an INFJ? Or Emotional Empathy? My F and T scores were unremarkable, but my N and J scores were high. Perhaps I function as an INTJ, but I don't screen out stimulus in the form of emotions.
I am more than positive I am an INFJ. When you look at the cognitive functions of each personality type and how they are placed you come to realize that each individual uses them differently. Not to mention upbringing has a profound impact on the person. I myself had a father who was highly logical based, an INTP. Valuing intelligence over kindness, I was able to develope I higher levels of cognitive thinking. I still however had higher levels of introverted intuition and extroverted feeling. Besides each MBTI can have a subtype from information I’ve gathered.
So, what happens if I am typed as INFJ, but I use Fe poorly? Because I do. Fe feels like swimming in a turbulent ocean, being thrown this way and that. When I use it, people get the impression that I am inconsistent (at best) or a liar (at worst). Fi feels more secure to me. I feel centered, even if other people accuse me of being unjustified in my feelings.
So, am I just mistyped?
What I mean to say is, I'm pervious to emotions in a way that autistic people are also pervious to light or sound or texture. Is that really Fe? Or is it just poor abilit to screen out?
That is a possibility on both parts, however all that matters is how you feel about it. Subtypes do exist and it is possible you have one,
How I feel about Fe? I feel uncomfortable trying to make people happy. I don't like that function. I think people feel the way they feel, and I can't change that.
What is a subtype?
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I am an INFJ who was diagnosed for a low functioning form of Autism so I don't have problems with empathy and sympathy. I did however had problems with hypersensitivity as a child where I was hypersensitive to sound, light, smell, taste and emotions. The sound part affected a fraction of my schooling. I remember every year in school we would have these dreaded "fire drills" periodically where the fire alarm would go off and scare the shit out of me. I understood their purpose but they were just evil. I still have hypersensitivity to this day but I learned to cope with it and view it as a test from God. I wear sunglasses every time I go outside when the sun is out. I prefer going out in overcast weather and nighttime only. But if I have to go out in the sun, I have to wear sunglasses.
Traits of autism can be mistaken for strong Meyers Briggs functions -- and vice versa. For example, hyper-awareness of senses, detailed fact-gathering, being lost in thought, using rigid systems, having low social skills. Medicine isn't at the point where it can always draw a clear line between having traits of autism and a diagnosis of autism.
Based on my personality as a child, I might have had Asperger's syndrome. I simply did not register people's facial expressions or tone of voice. After I went through puberty, my awareness increased. Slowly, over the decades, I learned how to use Fe successfully, to my great satisfaction. How can it be that I no longer have Asperger's? Lots of parents would love to hear that autism is curable.
Perhaps we can change, for the better, our strengths and weaknesses in temperament and behavior. Perhaps we have more control than we know over who we are, what we feel, and how we think -- until we reach our biological limits for self-improvement.
Based on my personality as a child, I might have had Asperger's syndrome. I simply did not register people's facial expressions or tone of voice. After I went through puberty, my awareness increased. Slowly, over the decades, I learned how to use Fe successfully, to my great satisfaction. How can it be that I no longer have Asperger's? Lots of parents would love to hear that autism is curable.
Perhaps we can change, for the better, our strengths and weaknesses in temperament and behavior. Perhaps we have more control than we know over who we are, what we feel, and how we think -- until we reach our biological limits for self-improvement.
- Sep 28, 2008
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Stumbled across this video and thought it was really good and I should share it ^_^
Wyote, thanks for that video and for continuing this discussion.
It's good that "range of normal" has come into use with mental health. Being functional is what's most important. If people see that they CAN move along a scale, it gives them hope and incentive to try to improve, which is better than being labeled for life.
Speaking from my own experience, some people can become "normal." In my case, I was born prematurely, and was both highly intelligent and highly sensitive. I believe that high-functioning autism was a self-defense mechanism for my mind. It was a way for me to withdraw and protect my identity until I could figure out who I was and how the world worked.
Coming out takes a huge amount of self-awareness, which cannot happen in early childhood without adult help. It is important for a child to be surrounded by supportive people who kindly guide them: "This is how you come across to others. These are your talents to develop which are admired by others. These are the skills you need in order to be accepted by others." Motivated adults might be able do this for themselves. (Of course, the degree of autism will affect the outcome.)
Brains make new neural connections -- especially when they are stimulated, challenged, and rewarded. We seek to know who we are and to be the best we can be. After all, isn't that why we are on this forum? Being correctly typed is one way to learn behaviors and attitudes to help us succeed.
It's good that "range of normal" has come into use with mental health. Being functional is what's most important. If people see that they CAN move along a scale, it gives them hope and incentive to try to improve, which is better than being labeled for life.
Speaking from my own experience, some people can become "normal." In my case, I was born prematurely, and was both highly intelligent and highly sensitive. I believe that high-functioning autism was a self-defense mechanism for my mind. It was a way for me to withdraw and protect my identity until I could figure out who I was and how the world worked.
Coming out takes a huge amount of self-awareness, which cannot happen in early childhood without adult help. It is important for a child to be surrounded by supportive people who kindly guide them: "This is how you come across to others. These are your talents to develop which are admired by others. These are the skills you need in order to be accepted by others." Motivated adults might be able do this for themselves. (Of course, the degree of autism will affect the outcome.)
Brains make new neural connections -- especially when they are stimulated, challenged, and rewarded. We seek to know who we are and to be the best we can be. After all, isn't that why we are on this forum? Being correctly typed is one way to learn behaviors and attitudes to help us succeed.
I am a high functioning autistic person and INFJ.
I think the key here that people miss about empathy is that what most people are doing is not *really* empathy. They just put themselves into another's shoes, more or less sucessfully, and measure their empathy level on their enthusiasm for doing so rather than whether their imagination gives them a correct answer or not. That's how you get people claiming to be highly empathetic with animals who think a dog in distress is smiling or that a tense, skittish cat is in need of some cuddles. That also extends to people who's life experiences are vastly different to theirs, like not fully grasping the extent to which early trauma affects personality development or the psychological impact of poverty (demonstrated clearly with the penal system btw)
Similarily, the autistic brain is also different. I can't tell you how many times people tried to get empathetic with me by putting themselves in my shoes and spectacularly failing at correctly understanding what I feel (made worse by their insistence that they are correct). The opposite case was also frequently true. The issue is that the "actor" who you put into my shoes is nothing like me because my brain is different to your experience. Living in a neurotypical society, I had many "corrective experiences" on that account. Most people didn't.
That said, I consider myself a highly empathetic person. I learned to observe people and support my "feelings" with concrete findings. I don't put myself in other people's shoes the way I was taught empathy works. I observe how they are actually feeling without imposing, which is actually more natural to me. Some even called me psychic for that when I was more open about it. I yearn for connection and do my best to make others feel better. One way my autism comes into the mix is my utter confusion on how to apply social expectations to the mix, though. Say, I've met a guy who was missing his hand. He was very non-challant about it and made constant jokes about the fact. I noticed the frayed edges of that presentation right away, though. An anxiety, determination to not be vulnerable, a fight for self-worth. I wished to connect to him, make him feel like everything's fine and make sure to get him understand that he's an amazing human being (which I was sure of after spending a few days in his company). I failed to understand how to do that without breaking through boudaries set up by his mask, though. Another time I was talking with a girl I knew. She talked about how happy she's with her boyfriend and how great it is since they moved in together. She projected a happy, confident persona, but I noticed a pattern of fear and unease at the edges. My thought was that he's abusive. I was rather certain. I later turned out to be right. But I didn't know how to get close enough for that discussion to be appropriate since we weren't close. I was so confused that I hid in the bathroom, actually. I felt that there's something that needs to be addressed, but there literally is no template how to breach the surface and dive into what's real. And I couldn't continue with the interaction on the surface level. Social rules make people happy, but they're also a tools to hide the real things behind ritual and masks. That's incredibly confusing.
I think the trouble with typing autistics is that you're trying to determine the personality of a cat living in a world of dogs. The behavior of the cat will not be true to it's personality in that environment because it's pressured to cope and conform with something alien to it. I don't think that this "adjusted" personality has much weight, rather one should look inward to understand their inner workings instead of relying on performance in such a case. For example if I lived in a world of people of the same neurotype, I would struggle significantly less with connection and my unique way of understanding the world would not be discounted (and not force me to adopt a meachanically sound "thinking" strategy that I could demonstrate).
I think the key here that people miss about empathy is that what most people are doing is not *really* empathy. They just put themselves into another's shoes, more or less sucessfully, and measure their empathy level on their enthusiasm for doing so rather than whether their imagination gives them a correct answer or not. That's how you get people claiming to be highly empathetic with animals who think a dog in distress is smiling or that a tense, skittish cat is in need of some cuddles. That also extends to people who's life experiences are vastly different to theirs, like not fully grasping the extent to which early trauma affects personality development or the psychological impact of poverty (demonstrated clearly with the penal system btw)
Similarily, the autistic brain is also different. I can't tell you how many times people tried to get empathetic with me by putting themselves in my shoes and spectacularly failing at correctly understanding what I feel (made worse by their insistence that they are correct). The opposite case was also frequently true. The issue is that the "actor" who you put into my shoes is nothing like me because my brain is different to your experience. Living in a neurotypical society, I had many "corrective experiences" on that account. Most people didn't.
That said, I consider myself a highly empathetic person. I learned to observe people and support my "feelings" with concrete findings. I don't put myself in other people's shoes the way I was taught empathy works. I observe how they are actually feeling without imposing, which is actually more natural to me. Some even called me psychic for that when I was more open about it. I yearn for connection and do my best to make others feel better. One way my autism comes into the mix is my utter confusion on how to apply social expectations to the mix, though. Say, I've met a guy who was missing his hand. He was very non-challant about it and made constant jokes about the fact. I noticed the frayed edges of that presentation right away, though. An anxiety, determination to not be vulnerable, a fight for self-worth. I wished to connect to him, make him feel like everything's fine and make sure to get him understand that he's an amazing human being (which I was sure of after spending a few days in his company). I failed to understand how to do that without breaking through boudaries set up by his mask, though. Another time I was talking with a girl I knew. She talked about how happy she's with her boyfriend and how great it is since they moved in together. She projected a happy, confident persona, but I noticed a pattern of fear and unease at the edges. My thought was that he's abusive. I was rather certain. I later turned out to be right. But I didn't know how to get close enough for that discussion to be appropriate since we weren't close. I was so confused that I hid in the bathroom, actually. I felt that there's something that needs to be addressed, but there literally is no template how to breach the surface and dive into what's real. And I couldn't continue with the interaction on the surface level. Social rules make people happy, but they're also a tools to hide the real things behind ritual and masks. That's incredibly confusing.
I think the trouble with typing autistics is that you're trying to determine the personality of a cat living in a world of dogs. The behavior of the cat will not be true to it's personality in that environment because it's pressured to cope and conform with something alien to it. I don't think that this "adjusted" personality has much weight, rather one should look inward to understand their inner workings instead of relying on performance in such a case. For example if I lived in a world of people of the same neurotype, I would struggle significantly less with connection and my unique way of understanding the world would not be discounted (and not force me to adopt a meachanically sound "thinking" strategy that I could demonstrate).