If only I could feel this way about God

[John K]

I always enjoy your insight @John K thank you! I have much to ponder you're right, but I love all the incoming replies! <3

I hope what I posted made sense April - when I go back and read the things I've said in my comments they sometimes sound like they've been squeezed out through a toothpaste tube. I hope you can see some of what's behind my comment as well as the plain words! You have my love and best wishes for your journey.

I'll have to echo that, I really appreciate @John K, too, so insightful.

Also, I forgot to say thank you for posting that article about biphasic sleep, John, it was a good read.

I'm glad you picked up on this Deleted member 16771 because it gives me a chance to thank you so much for the sharing of your dark existential dread experience. I have had these too, starting when I was 8. They didn't resolve quickly like yours did but developed slowly over many years and left me in a solipsistic limbo that only partially resolved in my early 20s. With hindsight, I think it was my Ni ability to context shift into a parallel stable world view that kept me afloat. Even now my certainty in the external world is an act of faith and trust at heart. I've never met anyone before who has had a similar experience of the bottom following out of reality in the way you describe - there is a peculiar horror in it that is unmistakeable and it's a whole universe away from an intellectual philosophical perspective on reality.

I'm glad too that you found the sleep article interesting. I get quite annoyed sometimes when modern viewpoints become arrogant and assume we know better than people from other times. That article doesn't describe the sleep pattern you experience but it definitely breaks open the idea that there are other perfectly natural ways of doing things.

 

[April]

I hope what I posted made sense April - when I go back and read the things I've said in my comments they sometimes sound like they've been squeezed out through a toothpaste tube. I hope you can see some of what's behind my comment as well as the plain words! You have my love and best wishes for your journey.



I'm glad you picked up on this Deleted member 16771 because it gives me a chance to thank you so much for the sharing of your dark existential dread experience. I have had these too, starting when I was 8. They didn't resolve quickly like yours did but developed slowly over many years and left me in a solipsistic limbo that only partially resolved in my early 20s. With hindsight, I think it was my Ni ability to context shift into a parallel stable world view that kept me afloat. Even now my certainty in the external world is an act of faith and trust at heart. I've never met anyone before who has had a similar experience of the bottom following out of reality in the way you describe - there is a peculiar horror in it that is unmistakeable and it's a whole universe away from an intellectual philosophical perspective on reality.

I'm glad too that you found the sleep article interesting. I get quite annoyed sometimes when modern viewpoints become arrogant and assume we know better than people from other times. That article doesn't describe the sleep pattern you experience but it definitely breaks open the idea that there are other perfectly natural ways of doing things.

Never feel like you have to shorten your replies to me... I'm like a sponge, eager for it!!! Especially from those I admire.. and you are one of them. <3 HUGSSS Btw it made sense lol and thank you!

 

[Sandie33]

agnostic

@April
I'm going to toss in the devil's advocacy wand in here...mainly just for clarity, not to hurt or cause an issue, I haven't read the thread in it's entirety

@Ren do you claim agnosticism because of truly not knowing if God exists or not? I ask this only from doing an enormous amount of research regarding faith, religion, and "God".

Gnosticism from what I understand is a pre-Christanity knowledge/school of thought. The Greeks coined it: gnostic, I know or am learned, and agnostic, I don't know, am unlearned.

Understanding a things original context and diging past the add-ins from the filters of man's mind gives an expansive look into how, over time, Religions and Christianity God became more about how man wanted to structure and improve upon it rather than letting faith and belief flow as it was intended.

Similar to Philsophy...we have all of these historical mega-minds lending to infant philosophies that as years past many of man has added and expanded these rules of thought. When we follow along the line back to the root, and then follow the root to the seed, we can then start our individual trek back to our own understanding...our faith, our personal truth, and that until empirical evidence appears differently, this is our stance.

And so it is to our path to God, if that is the name for whom we choose. We all should question the centuries of conditioning we carry in ancestrial imprinting while searching for our answers to life's larger questions.

Just my thoughts ladies and gentlemen

 

[Infjente]

I've been reading this thread. And figured I'd throw in. God. Does exist. God has no skin in the human game though. If God stepped in everything would fall apart. This world is set up for you to see what you can do in it. If God intervenes in any way he messes up everyone else. Your prayer could potentially cancel another's prayers. That's the problem I have with asking God. I ask for wisdom but never anything material. God is there. And listening. And communicating.

It seems to me the first step in finding God is to look at the world around you. Look at the trees. Look how they give everything to the world. How the branches reach out to the sun. Always reaching toward the light. Everything is fed by the light.
As you begin to see the order in the world around you that is when you start to see Gods work. You begin to discover that it's all Gods work.
The light needs the darkness. The positive needs a negative. Up needs down. Here needs there. On every level there is an opposing force. That force is balance. Life has to be happy and sad. It just does not work without it.
While I was at Seattle children's hospital this year with my son getting treatment for his brain cancer I saw lots of children and parents suffering through their kids health problems. All had faith. All we're there hoping for a cure. Some got that cure. Others did not and passed away. I saw people in there best and worst moods. I saw children still experiencing joy and happiness even though they could not walk or even move their arms and hands still finding happiness in the midst of sadness. Spinning doughnuts in their wheelchair using their mouth to steer through the halls laughing all the way. Life is living. In all conditions of happiness and sadness. Life is all of it.
Take your time with God. It's not going to happen all at once. It takes observation of the self and the world to find God within.
You are a God. A form of God. Made from Gods DNA. Think of all the things you can do. You can create and destroy. Love and hate. You can influence people's minds. So one naturally ask am I a good God? Do I live up to my belief and sense of God. How can I be a better God. What have I done to my little kingdom? As seeing God as you, you begin to understand that God cannot possibly help all. But with your help God can reach all. That is the grace you give others when you choose to love your self and see your inner God. If anything is to be gained in this life it will come through giving. Giving of yourself is the highest order among Gods you will never progress anywhere on the spiritual journey without giving of yourself. Your circumstances will improve when you give. Things may not happen all at once but once the ball starts rolling it picks up speed. The single fastest way to get with God is to give of yourself. Give your time to someone. Listen to them talk. Ponder with them. Realize that you are the same. That no one is different. That we all belong together. We are all a part of a big puzzle that is coming into shape. We grow when others grow with us. It's those things that bring the blessings of God. Peace can only be found after one has seen hell. Because the silence was made to be broken. Just as the summer turns to winter. We turn through our seasons and slowly grow just as all things on earth do. We are bound by the same rules as everything in life. Our heart beats without asking us to do so. We have so little faith. And within ourselves lies the evidence of creation and yet we won't accept it. The gift of creation. How amazing is it that your body does all it does without any thought from you. Just imagine if the heart started hating the kidneys. Or the stomache hated the liver. It all works and you don't have to think of it. We would be dead in hours or less if we were responsible for telling the cells in our bodies what to do. We couldn't possibly keep up with it all. It would overwhelm us totally. You could not think of anything else. For one misplaced thought and you'd be gone. Luckily your body takes care of the hard stuff so you can go play. So play. Sing and dance. Enjoy the fact that you can. Without having to worry about the really hard stuff that keeps you alive. God took care of it for you. So you can sit and ponder and discover the God within.

Just wanted to say that I'm sorry about your son, and what you're going through. I think contrasts and balance is a good argument for God's existence, actually. If anything, it makes more logical sense that there is a force opposite to the physical force of the universe - like body and mind. The thing is, if balance is the law, then God can't be greater than his opposing force. Another thing is that balance is unavoidable, nature won't allow empty vacuums, meaning we don't really need or should receive help from God.

Think about this: when are people harmonious? I'd say for example when man and nature nurture and adjust to each other. When this relationship fails, man or nature objects, and start seeking harmony again. When something isn't right, there's a vacuum that you don't even need a conscious mind to be drawn to, and even if you have one you still can't resist the force. For the same reason as water finds its way between the cracks in the ground, a person can't resist being drawn to the river for a drink, help someone that is helpless, say something when there's an awkward silence or stick his finger where it might fit. Now what does that say about the Bible and the words of God when human nature objects? It has created a disharmony that obviously needs to be balanced out. That means that Christianity as it is is wrong. To expect a man to follow the words of the Bible is as unnatural as to expect of him to not find shelter when it's raining. People don't object to rain, they adjust to it. People might not object to the concept of a God either, but to the written rules, because the rules are wrong nature makes them object, and nature is always right.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

I'm glad you picked up on this Deleted member 16771 because it gives me a chance to thank you so much for the sharing of your dark existential dread experience. I have had these too, starting when I was 8. They didn't resolve quickly like yours did but developed slowly over many years and left me in a solipsistic limbo that only partially resolved in my early 20s. With hindsight, I think it was my Ni ability to context shift into a parallel stable world view that kept me afloat. Even now my certainty in the external world is an act of faith and trust at heart. I've never met anyone before who has had a similar experience of the bottom following out of reality in the way you describe - there is a peculiar horror in it that is unmistakeable and it's a whole universe away from an intellectual philosophical perspective on reality.

Yeah, the thoughts started young with me, too, and I still get them sometimes, but it's never really terrifying now like it was on those two occasions. Existence is an absurd axiom for the seriously introspective person - it has no explanation.

I actually taught a boy in Year 7 (11-12 years old) who was going through what we'll call the 'terror and dread phase' of existential thinking. He was a bright lad, very sensitive and somewhat socially awkward.

I detected what he was going through with his words after spotting him in a state of serious high anxiety in class, close to tears. He was preoccupied during the lesson and was very likely going through a crisis right then. I asked him to stay behind after class to find out what was wrong, and he described an existential crisis in absolute floods of tears.

I explained that it was normal, that I had been through it and lots of people throughout history had experienced it. That he was part of a 'community' of powerful thinkers that have realised the strangeness of existence, but that it shouldn't scare him. I gave him some practical advice about vitamin D (he was deathly pale) and called his mum and alerted the counsellor, explaining what he was going through. I was very keen to tell them that he was not 'ill' in any way, but his response to these thoughts was absolutely rational.

He really calmed down during our conversation and especially the realisation that he wasn't alone in this, but I was very moved by this young lad having to go through such dread at this young age. Before then I would have rather not gone through it myself, but it did give me the tools to help this boy where he might have been medicalised or something. Just that was 'worth it'.

 

[John K]

Yeah, the thoughts started young with me, too, and I still get them sometimes, but it's never really terrifying now like it was on those two occasions. Existence is an absurd axiom for the seriously introspective person - it has no explanation.

I actually taught a boy in Year 7 (11-12 years old) who was going through what we'll call the 'terror and dread phase' of existential thinking. He was a bright lad, very sensitive and somewhat socially awkward.

I detected what he was going through with his words after spotting him in a state of serious high anxiety in class, close to tears. He was preoccupied during the lesson and was very likely going through a crisis right then. I asked him to stay behind after class to find out what was wrong, and he described an existential crisis in absolute floods of tears.

I explained that it was normal, that I had been through it and lots of people throughout history had experienced it. That he was part of a 'community' of powerful thinkers that have realised the strangeness of existence, but that it shouldn't scare him. I gave him some practical advice about vitamin D (he was deathly pale) and called his mum and alerted the counsellor, explaining what he was going through. I was very keen to tell them that he was not 'ill' in any way, but his response to these thoughts was absolutely rational.

He really calmed down during our conversation and especially the realisation that he wasn't alone in this, but I was very moved by this young lad having to go through such dread at this young age. Before then I would have rather not gone through it myself, but it did give me the tools to help this boy where he might have been medicalised or something. Just that was 'worth it'.

Yes, the insecurity of reality doesn't bother me now either and hasn't since my early 20s. I like playing around with it sometimes - switching backwards and forwards from real to unreal perspectives like the duck-rabbit picture. The only time it becomes a problem is when I'm driving. I think inferior Se has a lot to do with the actual sensation of unreality and of course driving pulls us very heavily into Se. When the dashboard, steering wheel and the road in front of me suddenly look totally not there it can be disconcerting, but I just ignore the feeling, concentrate a bit and it goes away. :chuckle:

Your story about one of your pupils is very heart warming. He was very lucky to have someone who understood what he was experiencing and could help him - most people will go through this completely alone I think, or at best find total incomprehension from others.

 

[54192&#cmy]

That is beautiful but the things that you speak of are biological science, not evidence of God. But you're right it's quite miraculous.

Biological science proves that god exists. Intelligent design.

 

[Skarekrow]

I am of a similar view of God. That's actually extremely close to what I feel that He is, if He is there. I want to believe so badly. But the doubts, ugh. I'm doubting Thomas... It's funny that Gnostic gosprl was named that.

I feel that we have to work to get to a place to understand the concept of Him and even when we do, it's not even close to what He really is.

But me trying to pray and meditate most of the time is so hard. My mind does not stay focused, just like you warned about.

Thanks so much!

Let me know if you want any meditation hints or help.

I highly enjoy your contribution to this thread and based off of what you said I will be going over to Merkabah to explore!!!

I also think that reincarnation makes a lot of sense... But what I think could be possible is so complex in my mind that I don't properly have the actual words to explain what I mean. I would have to sit down and quite for hours to untangle it all in my mind and even then I would need words that I don't know the definition to. It's almost as if my thoughts about that subject (and many other subjects) aren't words... They are just things that are known to me and they don't have words to define them... Does that make any sense at all? Lol

Thanks!
I have enjoyed it so far as well...sorry I haven’t been on for a few days.

Yes...it is a very broad subject within itself...some even claim that certain biblical passages allow for reincarnation.
Then there are studies that have been done collecting accounts from children which either should be beyond the knowledge a small child should possess, or they are able to trace it to an actual person...of course all is very subjective in nature...and could either be spot on, or total BS, or anywhere in between...but there are some accounts that are hard to dismiss.
They have associated certain deformities and birthmarks with death wounds of the previous person in some cases.
Others have provided fairly detailed information and used names and terminology that wouldn’t have been familiar or known to them in any way possible.
It is usually someone who has died young or in a fairly traumatic way...such as jumping from a burning building or crashing in a plane at war.
The whole point of becoming “enlightened” is so one doesn’t have to continue in the circle of reincarnation over and over and over again.
Some have even speculated that that is what Jesus meant when he said one could be “saved”...and that we are in fact, in “Hell”, which is this repeating existence on Earth until we get it right.

@Skarekrow thanks for the links!!!

I am so intrigued! I love this discussion so much. Thank you guys so much for participating even though I know you have participated elsewhere and likely have said the same things there. It can be intimidating and incredibly time consuming to read every single forum post to try and get a sense of people.

Let me know if you want links to anything else...I have some really great sources/links cataloged.

Learning about DMT was really helpful in the process too.

As was psilocybin for me.
Such a profound sliver of beauty I had no idea could exist...

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Biological science proves that god exists. Intelligent design.

Intelligent design is actually a testable theory based upon some of its postulates:

One is that there should be elements of biology that are impossible to explain by the evolutionary model.

Every case of this put forth by ID proponents, however, has failed this test. Everything is explicable by the model we already have - all of modern biology is based upon it.

 

[54192&#cmy]

Just wanted to say that I'm sorry about your son, and what you're going through. I think contrasts and balance is a good argument for God's existence, actually. If anything, it makes more logical sense that there is a force opposite to the physical force of the universe - like body and mind. The thing is, if balance is the law, then God can't be greater than his opposing force. Another thing is that balance is unavoidable, nature won't allow empty vacuums, meaning we don't really need or should receive help from God.

Think about this: when are people harmonious? I'd say for example when man and nature nurture and adjust to each other. When this relationship fails, man or nature objects, and start seeking harmony again. When something isn't right, there's a vacuum that you don't even need a conscious mind to be drawn to, and even if you have one you still can't resist the force. For the same reason as water finds its way between the cracks in the ground, a person can't resist being drawn to the river for a drink, help someone that is helpless, say something when there's an awkward silence or stick his finger where it might fit. Now what does that say about the Bible and the words of God when human nature objects? It has created a disharmony that obviously needs to be balanced out. That means that Christianity as it is is wrong. To expect a man to follow the words of the Bible is as unnatural as to expect of him to not find shelter when it's raining. People don't object to rain, they adjust to it. People might not object to the concept of a God either, but to the written rules, because the rules are wrong nature makes them object, and nature is always right.

You ever look into fractals? Sacred geometry? Fibonacci curve? All these things prove intelligent design. Call it what you will god or not god. Something made all this. It cannot happen by accident. Too much math and technology going on to deny it all.

 

[54192&#cmy]

Or maybe in the end my mind wants to believe in something so that it comforts the truth of eternal darkness.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

You ever look into fractals? Sacred geometry? Fibonacci curve? All these things prove intelligent design. Call it what you will god or not god. Something made all this. It cannot happen by accident. Too much math and technology going on to deny it all.

None of these things are genuine proofs of anything but mathematical logic.

The more fundamental point is this, though - there may very well be a God, but so far we have come up with no way of testing the hypothesis because it's not a theory that predicts anything.

That means, at the current time, the question of God is simply not a part of science. The religious therefore have no choice but to have courage in their faith, but maybe that's the point?

 

[Emanuel Goldstein]

None of these things are genuine proofs of anything but mathematical logic.

The more fundamental point is this, though - there may very well be a God, but so far we have come up with no way of testing the hypothesis because it's not a theory that predicts anything.

That means, at the current time, the question of God is simply not a part of science. The religious therefore have no choice but to have courage in their faith, but maybe that's the point?

Currently there is a movement of independent people who are switching to spirituality because they are getting brain dumps from otherworldly/spiritual sources.... people are having spiritual experiences which are intensely personal. Symptoms include anxiety, heart palpations and a desire to switch to a vegetarian diet... I personally had a conversation with a priest and explained a great deal of the answers to the questions he could not answer... if you don't have you answer yet... perhaps it will come soon... but it won't be from a philosophical debate. You have to be open too it. Truth is self evident...

 

[Infjente]

Or maybe in the end my mind wants to believe in something so that it comforts the truth of eternal darkness.

I think it is a great chance there is life after death! How can anything be nothing if nothing doesn't exist? We haven't found it yet. It's the Bible I object to, not God and afterlife

 

[Sandie33]

 

[just me]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews

In mitochondrial DNA, not just in Jews, it is easier to understand when we place the populations at such a small beginning. Some countries can trace Jewish populations for those tested to one to four women. We have our own history inside us, made and molded in such a manner it puts a lot of us in awe. It is hard to imagine.

Mt-DNA of the Mountain Jews[edit]
The Mountain Jews showed a striking maternal founding event, with 58.6% of their total mtDNA genetic variation tracing back to one woman from the Levant carrying an mtDNA lineage within Hg J2b.[66][25]

 

[Deleted member 16771]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews

In mitochondrial DNA, not just in Jews, it is easier to understand when we place the populations at such a small beginning. Some countries can trace Jewish populations for those tested to one to four women. We have our own history inside us, made and molded in such a manner it puts a lot of us in awe. It is hard to imagine.

Mt-DNA of the Mountain Jews[edit]
The Mountain Jews showed a striking maternal founding event, with 58.6% of their total mtDNA genetic variation tracing back to one woman from the Levant carrying an mtDNA lineage within Hg J2b.[66][25]

What's this about, then?

 

[latch]

It's impossible for anyone within a system to perceive the system itself. Video game characters don't know they are electrons moving around on silicon and wouldn't even be able to understand a cup of coffee near the computer they exist on. We can't know the means by which God sustains the universe because we are inside of it.

 

[54192&#cmy]

I think it is a great chance there is life after death! How can anything be nothing if nothing doesn't exist? We haven't found it yet. It's the Bible I object to, not God and afterlife

Did I say I liked the Bible? I'm not a fan. Cause I know it's a fraud. If you want to know who Jesus was your going to have to study the same books he did. Far as I know Jesus was a Jew. If I follow Jesus that means I'm a Jew. Not a Christian. At least that's how I see it. I think true christians are Jews who believe Jesus was the messiah. Not a lot of those in the world today. But I'm sure they existed.

 

[Infjente]

Did I say I liked the Bible? I'm not a fan. Cause I know it's a fraud. If you want to know who Jesus was your going to have to study the same books he did. Far as I know Jesus was a Jew. If I follow Jesus that means I'm a Jew. Not a Christian. At least that's how I see it. I think true christians are Jews who believe Jesus was the messiah. Not a lot of those in the world today. But I'm sure they existed.

Yes, so that's not the important part then I have no clue what happens after death. But 'nothing' can't be? Nothing is nothing.