If only I could feel this way about God

April

April

Normal Weirdo :)
MBTI
INFJ
Enneagram
296 sx/so

Back when I was a Christian I used to cry out to God and beg for Him to bestow upon me the love for Him that I felt for other people.

I would listen to this song on repeat, and talk to God. I knew He wanted me to feel that way about Him, and I begged Him to help me get there. But I just couldn't put Him above everything and everyone.

"You are my everything, and I will adore you" Those lyrics hurt especially bad because God wasn't my everything. I felt guilty about it, I prayed, I read my Bible, and practiced what I thought was right. But sometimes, in the back of my mind, when I prayed, I felt like I was talking to nobody. That little prick of a thought eventually won over, and now I have no idea what I believe. To think that man could be so arrogant as to say what is and what isn't... Idk. We know nothing. I wish I could still believe though.
 
Pin said:
Religion/'Spirituality' is appealing for many reasons, especially the simplicity of the answers. You rose your standards, that's a good thing.
Click to expand...
I think I'm just having nostalgia and I still love the music, lol. Idk I have many questions that the most respected theologians can't answer because all of their evidence is either backed by the Bible, or their faith. That's not enough for me I guess, even though I want to believe in a God that is similar to the one in "The Shack"- great read and great movie too.

Anyway. Yep, haha.
 
It’s hard, especially if you found friends and community in your religion.
I was raised Mormon, so family was always first after the religion...we had tons of potlucks and other crap.
Some of my favorite memories are running around the outside of the church playing tag.
Or looking at all the desserts or the dessert table.

But beyond that, it’s hard to struggle with one's faith like that.
If it is something that you feel passionately about, just keep looking until you find it.
Or perhaps you will have a revelation of your own and become and atheist....idk.
There are answers out there - even of the profound type.

Without questioning ourselves we will never make progress as a person.
Not to be confused with being overly self-critical, an INFJ commonality.


From the Gospel of Thomas (one of the scriptures removed from the Bible)

(3) Jesus says:

(1) “If those who lead you say to you: ‘Look, the kingdom is in the sky!’ then the birds of the sky will precede you.
(2) If they say to you: ‘It is in the sea,’ then the fishes will precede you.
(3) Rather, the kingdom is inside of you and outside of you.”
(4) “When you come to know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will realize that you are the children of the living Father.
(5) But if you do not come to know yourselves, then you exist in poverty, and you are poverty.”

Much love!
 
Skarekrow said:
It’s hard, especially if you found friends and community in your religion.
I was raised Mormon, so family was always first after the religion...we had tons of potlucks and other crap.
Some of my favorite memories are running around the outside of the church playing tag.
Or looking at all the desserts or the dessert table.

But beyond that, it’s hard to struggle with one's faith like that.
If it is something that you feel passionately about, just keep looking until you find it.
Or perhaps you will have a revelation of your own and become and atheist....idk.
There are answers out there - even of the profound type.

Without questioning ourselves we will never make progress as a person.
Not to be confused with being overly self-critical, an INFJ commonality.


From the Gospel of Thomas (one of the scriptures removed from the Bible)

(3) Jesus says:

(1) “If those who lead you say to you: ‘Look, the kingdom is in the sky!’ then the birds of the sky will precede you.
(2) If they say to you: ‘It is in the sea,’ then the fishes will precede you.
(3) Rather, the kingdom is inside of you and outside of you.”
(4) “When you come to know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will realize that you are the children of the living Father.
(5) But if you do not come to know yourselves, then you exist in poverty, and you are poverty.”

Much love!
Click to expand...
Thanks @Skarekrow :) although one thing, I could never be an atheist if what I heard about atheism is true. If it's true, they believe that there is definitely not a God. That, to me, is still faith. It's just faith that there isn't a God. So, I've also heard that the term "agnostic" is for suitable for me. Because they don't have faith that there is -or that there isn't- a God of some type. The only thing that I have faith in is myself. I may not have much confidence, but that comes from within (and some other outside factors too lol) and I'm working on it and I know I will get there, therefore, faith in myself. That's the way I see it. It's sort of the same as my feelings about hope and faith. I have serious hope that there is a God, but I lack the faith.

Get me?

Thank you for your feedback :)
 
Last edited:
screen-shot-2013-06-14-at-5-41-40-pm.webp I found this though, and also some websites say something similar to what I said above. That agnostics are doubtful our noncommittal. That atheist believe there is no God, or lack faith.

Interesting.
 
April said:
View attachment 43974 I found this though, and also some websites say something similar to what I said above. That agnostics are doubtful our noncommittal. That atheist believe there is no God, or lack faith.

Interesting.
Click to expand...

The actual Gnostics, however, believed that 'God' the creator was evil... so...

There was a 'real' God above this one (the demiurge), though, but was ultimately unknowable and mysterious.

This idea of a 'highest God' who is mysterious and unknowable, crops up quite often. Ancient Greek philosophers spoke about it, as did Native Americans (the Sioux called it 'Wakan Tanka', the 'great mystery'). Tolkien had a similar idea in Eru Illuvatar.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
The actual Gnostics, however, believed that 'God' the creator was evil... so...
Click to expand...
Really?! See I need to learn before I open my mouth haha. I don't believe that if God were real that He is evil. But who knows. I would love your opinion on what I said above though @Deleted member 16771 :)
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
There was a 'real' God above this one (the demiurge), though, but was ultimately unknowable and mysterious.

This idea of a 'highest God' who is mysterious and unknowable, crops up quite often. Ancient Greek philosophers spoke about it, as did Native Americans (the Sioux called it 'Wakan Tanka', the 'great mystery'). Tolkien had a similar idea in Eru Illuvatar.
Click to expand...
Omg how do you know all this stuff lol. You and Ren and so many other people here are like walking Encyclopedias... Lol

I quoted that because you must have edited your post because I didn't see that part before. But it is so interesting!!!
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
Well you weren't wrong to post the image. 'Gnosis' itself might best be translated as 'revelation' in this context (I.e. Revealed truth).

You mean, my thoughts on your OP?
Click to expand...
Yes and my comment s above yours.

Or, just your personal view. I love the religion and philosophy topics but I'm not yet educated enough to discuss them with the likes of you guys, but this thread is made by me, so in a much more simple way, lol...
 
@Skarekrow I'm really interested in your personal view too. Is it fair to assume you do believe in God, but you accept the possibility that God doesn't exist? I didn't finish reading the original sin thread, lol so I apologize if you've posted it elsewhere.
 
April said:
Thanks @Skarekrow :) although one thing, I could never be an atheist if what I heard about atheism is true. If it's true, they believe that there is definitely not a God. That, to me, is still faith. It's just faith that there isn't a God. So, I've also heard that the term "agnostic" is for suitable for me. Because they don't have faith that there is -or that there isn't- a God of some type. The only thing that I have faith in is myself. I may not have much confidence, but that comes from within (and some other outside factors too lol) and I'm working on it and I know I will get there, therefore, faith in myself. That's the way I see it. It's sort of the same as my feelings about hope and faith. I have serious hope that there is a God, but I lack the faith.

Get me?

Thank you for your feedback :)
Click to expand...

Oh I more than get you, there is no need to explain.
I was basically in a similar boat.

The reason I included that scripture was because it is considered from the Gnostic gospels like @Deleted member 16771 spoke of.
The thought behind why this book was removed because of that very verse - which suggests that no person can show you where God is but you...and that is the realization that God is all...and when you come to that, the rest falls away.
Well, it’s difficult to keep a church going if the book says you don’t need a priest or bishop or pope to show you the way, that you can find God within yourself - hence it was disavowed though it was only rediscovered in 1945.
You would think people would love to hear such an early account of Jesus...about 300 years...which is right with the earliest books of the Bible.

Anyhow.
I understand what you mean about faith...I didn’t mean to imply that you would come to the conclusion that there is no God...just dry humor lost over the internet.
;)
To me...faith is very real...as in tangible...there are quite a few studies showing that group prayer and large groups of meditators both show a physical effect on this very reality we live in.
So I view my faith as how much my will effects reality.
I do have a view of God...but it’s more of a - God is a concept that is unknowable to our normal human thought process.
It is usually through some kind of altered consciousness that one communes and/or sees visions of God or deities...even if the altering is only slight, as it can be while in deep prayer or meditation.
BTW - I think meditating on God and the questions you have is a really good way to find the answers/peace/relationship you wish to have with God.
Prayer is a form of meditation, but I find it helpful with questions requiring deeper thought to have a more open space for your mind to really become heavily involved.
It can be difficult to close your eyes and focus solely on a set of things or one thing and quiet your mind at first, but once you get the hang of it...at least for me, it’s been a lifesaver.
And sometimes when we quiet the mind, we can hear the words we wish to hear.

Good luck...let me know if I can help you in any way, I’m happy to.
Take care and much love.

(You’ll find it)
 
Well OK then, I'll tell you a story.

I was raised a Christian. Not in the American sense, you understand, but in the British. This means that everyone is just assumed to believe in God, and the teachings of Christ, and the only services you might attend are various rites of passage (usually just funerals to be honest). Nobody has any doctrinal knowledge or really an opinion on these matters. It might be more accurate to say that a lot of British Christians are really just theists with a Christian cultural baggage.

So in my late teens and early twenties, I became an atheist, purely based upon the materialistic and scientific worldview. Richard Dawkins' 'new atheism' was really getting going then. God just didn't exist.

Then in my mid twenties, I had two very serious existential crises. I became obsessed with a singular question: 'why does anything exist?'

It was an oppressive question, forcing its way into my mind when I least desired it. It caused terror and real dread. I could feel the emptiness of the void closing in and enveloping me a lot of the time; nothing felt real, existence was absurd.

Then I experienced my darkest moment. I was on a leave of absense from university to investigate my sleep issues (this was when I was finally diagnosed with DSPD), so I was spending a lot of time in the house (essentially nocturnal) playing video games. One night, after a build up of existential dread each previous night, I 'met the void' or 'went into the void' - that's the only way I can describe it.

So it's night, and 'the question' is pressing in on me as I'm trying to play the game. I've been avoiding it, so this time, I decide to focus on it, to think on it. I switch off the PlayStation and sit in bed. I'm terrified.

The void closes in and I feel like I'm being confronted with absolute reality - the nothingness of existence, the void, the abyss. I cannot comprehend it. I perceived the room (it would be more accurate to say, I remember) the room darkening and the lights flickering, as I was physically enveloped by the cold darkness of nothingness. I am fucking bricking it.

I'm crying, I can't bear it. Then, at a certain point, I completely give in and say 'God, help me'. At precisely that moment, I feel like I am enveloped by the most comforting warmth imaginable. The darkness is banished, the room returns to normal, and all I feel is an overwhelming sense of love.

Still in tears, I go downstairs and tell my mum everything. She doesn't understand, but I explain to her the 'revelation' I had, about the divine preciousness of other individuals. I perceived others as burning with a bright, divine light. I felt that each person, everyone, was God, and was therefore worthy of unlimited tolerance and love.

Now, I'm a rationalist, so the next day, I knew what the probable cause was biochemically. I started to take vitamin D supplements, and the dread vanished. I started to go to the gym, and I sold my PlayStation. I was still afraid of experiencing the dread. I had one other crisis a year later, when Star Wars Episode VII came out, but nothing since, as I think I've fully integrated what happened, and am no longer vulnerable to existential dread.

So, I had an incredibly vivid religious experience, 'felt God's love' and received a 'revelation', so am I a believer? No.

I know the biochemical rationale of what happened, but equally I just cannot conceive of why anything exists at all. Infinity is sometimes a satisfying answer, but if course I don't know.

This is the truth: we don't know if God exists, and I am an agnostic.

I think my body saved me from the crisis by releasing a load of DMT or something like that - it was a survival mechanism. Humans capable of thinking themselves into an existential stupor must have evolved a response to deal with it fir the survival of the species (religion).

This is why I mentioned the various, mysterious 'higher gods' in my above post. Some people view agnosticism as a kind of equivocating, unsure, 'ooh I don't know' middle road between theism and atheism.

This is not my agnosticism. I am comfortable with the mystery. You could say, 'the mystery is my religion'. I don't know, and that's great!

I feel incredibly human and integrated. I can honestly speak to anyone about their religious belief with an open heart, just as I can speak to those with no belief with the same openness.

My God is humanity. I have a warm, calm, benevolent feeling knowing that we are all bound together as part of this wonderful mystery called life. I am happy to experience it without dread, but with a childlike curiosity.

Agnosticism to me is solid, it's real, it's the choice. It isn't in between two 'proper choices', it stands alone, wise, benevolent and honest.

That's my perspective. Now, I'm not suggesting that you have to go through an existential crisis! However, you may have to reorient your experience of the divine.

For me it's oriented towards people - a full and unfettered experience of agape.

P.S. I mean 'divine' as in something like, 'a thing of cosmic importance and value'. It might have something to do with a God, but it doesn't matter.
 
April said:
@Skarekrow I'm really interested in your personal view too. Is it fair to assume you do believe in God, but you accept the possibility that God doesn't exist? I didn't finish reading the original sin thread, lol so I apologize if you've posted it elsewhere.
Click to expand...

I accept the possibility that I may have it completely incorrect.
I could very well just blink out of existence when I die - but I will never know, so why be afraid of that?
People are afraid of being tortured in Hell...I just don’t see any logical sense in that...a God creating us knowing who is going to be damned and then creating Hell (because he knows and created all things) only to see those people pre-damned (because God supposedly knows all including what is to come..i.e. see- Revelations) burn and roast for eternity.
That view right there is what I cannot logically, spiritually, or morally agree with.
And that right there is why people don’t like my views and challenge me, call me names, ask for proof they don’t look at, etc., etc.
That’s fine, they can still believe what they wish and I certainly don’t view myself as any better, smarter, more spiritual, or otherwise than anyone else.
I have to admit that reincarnation looks like it could be possible...which imho would suck...but also, unprovable.
For the most part I have formed many of my opinions about the afterlife by reading accounts of those who have died and been there.
Subjective I know...but also the best evidence we have...and there are a surprising number of correlations/similarities between them.
I find that fascinating...these were clinically dead people...no brain wave activity took place - so where were they?
IMHO it is far more likely there is something after we die based on subjective experiences that people have had across time, religions, societies, etc, for as long as our history is remembered.
The most common “ghost” sighting/experience is someone coming to say goodbye to someone they love dearly - and in most cases of this happening, that person who saw that “spirit” knew of that person’s death before anyone else or any phone calls had been made.
There are also thousands of people who had precognitive dreams of the twin tower disaster on 9-11 that night before...none knowing what it meant.
I find evidence like that (which I put in my Merkabah thread) so compelling and suggestive of a higher or collective consciousness...a knowing...an ability to transcend this normal space and effect things that shouldn’t happen according the science textbooks.
So naturally God is possible also....I just don’t think we can understand the concept even slightly without a major enlightenment taking place.
 
Last edited:
Now, I think that a lot of thinkers throughout history have experienced this kind of 'wonder at the mystery'. They refer to it as the 'highest', but ultimately unknowable God. Let's call it 'the Great Mystery' as the Sioux do.

This belief is incredibly uniting. It reflects the true orientation of the human species towards what we experience (or do not) of 'the divine'. It invites speculation, but credits nothing as true. No one is excluded, everyone is included.
 
@Deleted member 16771

Ah...”The Void”!
Brilliant.

This site perhaps has the best resources on that particular subject
https://www.near-death.com/science/research/void.html

Some I posted.
https://www.infjs.com/threads/merkabah.27025/page-354#post-1070814

https://www.infjs.com/threads/merkabah.27025/page-328#post-1018406

https://www.infjs.com/threads/merkabah.27025/page-241#post-911895

I have/had more, but when the forum switched formats it messed them up.

Remember - to escape the void, ask for help. ;)
 
Skarekrow said:
@Deleted member 16771

Ah...”The Void”!
Brilliant.

This site perhaps has the best resources on that particular subject
https://www.near-death.com/science/research/void.html

Some I posted.
https://www.infjs.com/threads/merkabah.27025/page-354#post-1070814

https://www.infjs.com/threads/merkabah.27025/page-328#post-1018406

https://www.infjs.com/threads/merkabah.27025/page-241#post-911895

I have/had more, but when the forum switched formats it messed them up.

Remember - to escape the void, ask for help. ;)
Click to expand...

Hey thanks for those - it sounds uncannily like my experience. Practically all of the metaphors ring true.

In my case, I didn't ask for help, and the whole experience ended up being a huge personal growth experience, all the more so for the fact that I faced it alone. In any case, there was no one around who could understand.

However, I have never had suicidal thoughts, so maybe 'facing it alone' is not so good as general advice. Despite everything I've been through, I never hesitate from referring to the existential crisis as the most terrifying experience of my life - I can easily see how it could be a super dangerous experience for some.

If anyone is going through it right now, I'd like to say to them 'this too shall pass'. There will be resolution. Carry on.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
Hey thanks for those - it sounds uncannily like my experience. Practically all of the metaphors ring true.

In my case, I didn't ask for help, and the whole experience ended up being a huge personal growth experience, all the more so for the fact that I faced it alone. In any case, there was no one around who could understand.

However, I have never had suicidal thoughts, so maybe 'facing it alone' is not so good as general advice. Despite everything I've been through, I never hesitate from referring to the existential crisis as the most terrifying experience of my life - I can easily see how it could be a super dangerous experience for some.

If anyone is going through it right now, I'd like to say to them 'this too shall pass'. There will be resolution. Carry on.
Click to expand...

The dark night of the soul, yes...

No, actually if you read some of those accounts, many found themselves in the void without a near death experience but through meditation and otherwise.
And you will not necessary see those who are there with you supposedly, at least according to some accounts.

I can see how it can be completely terrifying to the point where it would might cause a sort of PTSD as many also say that time is not relative there and for some it seemed like they were there for lifetimes.
I would say that is scary.

Anyhow, I hope you find what you are searching for.
 
Skarekrow said:
Oh I more than get you, there is no need to explain.
I was basically in a similar boat.

The reason I included that scripture was because it is considered from the Gnostic gospels like @Deleted member 16771 spoke of.
The thought behind why this book was removed because of that very verse - which suggests that no person can show you where God is but you...and that is the realization that God is all...and when you come to that, the rest falls away.
Well, it’s difficult to keep a church going if the book says you don’t need a priest or bishop or pope to show you the way, that you can find God within yourself - hence it was disavowed though it was only rediscovered in 1945.
You would think people would love to hear such an early account of Jesus...about 300 years...which is right with the earliest books of the Bible.

Anyhow.
I understand what you mean about faith...I didn’t mean to imply that you would come to the conclusion that there is no God...just dry humor lost over the internet.
;)
To me...faith is very real...as in tangible...there are quite a few studies showing that group prayer and large groups of meditators both show a physical effect on this very reality we live in.
So I view my faith as how much my will effects reality.
I do have a view of God...but it’s more of a - God is a concept that is unknowable to our normal human thought process.
It is usually through some kind of altered consciousness that one communes and/or sees visions of God or deities...even if the altering is only slight, as it can be while in deep prayer or meditation.
BTW - I think meditating on God and the questions you have is a really good way to find the answers/peace/relationship you wish to have with God.
Prayer is a form of meditation, but I find it helpful with questions requiring deeper thought to have a more open space for your mind to really become heavily involved.
It can be difficult to close your eyes and focus solely on a set of things or one thing and quiet your mind at first, but once you get the hang of it...at least for me, it’s been a lifesaver.
And sometimes when we quiet the mind, we can hear the words we wish to hear.

Good luck...let me know if I can help you in any way, I’m happy to.
Take care and much love.

(You’ll find it)
Click to expand...
I am of a similar view of God. That's actually extremely close to what I feel that He is, if He is there. I want to believe so badly. But the doubts, ugh. I'm doubting Thomas... It's funny that Gnostic gosprl was named that. :p

I feel that we have to work to get to a place to understand the concept of Him and even when we do, it's not even close to what He really is.

But me trying to pray and meditate most of the time is so hard. My mind does not stay focused, just like you warned about.

Thanks so much!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top