I need a female's perspective

M

mattles

Regular Poster
MBTI
INFJ
This just so happens to be my first post and I fear that this one may be the most relevant post I will ever contribute to these forums. Heres a little background information before my question...

I am a true INFJ male, there was no category in which it was possible that at time I could be described as anything else but INFJ. I have had the worst luck with women, for whatever reason I always seem to meet the ones who just eventually hurt me in pretty significant ways. For whatever reason it doesn't quite matter what I do because it always has ended that way. That is to say, though, that things only end that way when they, by some sort of miracle, actually start. The hardest thing is actually finding a female who has feelings for me that are more than friendship. The question I want to ask some of you females is this...

What is it about INFJ males that make them unsuitable to be with? Maybe its not a question of suitability, but how is it that females never seem to respond to INFJ males in that way?

One thing that I've noticed is that a lot of INFJ males are always the best friend, or even just the casual friend or acquaintance. Any input would be greatly appreciated and very helpful.
 
You're being sensitive (:


As I state often, you shouldn't
pay attention to MBTI type, but
focus on compatibility when engaging
in relationships.

The problem is not that you are a
male INFJ but rather that you're dating
women you aren't compatible with (:




Try finding a lady-friend that is a little
more dominant?
 
Bird said:
You're being sensitive (:


As I state often, you shouldn't
pay attention to MBTI type, but
focus on compatibility when engaging
in relationships.

The problem is not that you are a
male INFJ but rather that you're dating
women you aren't compatible with (:




Try finding a lady-friend that is a little
more dominant?
Click to expand...

I have to agree with this. It's unlikely anything to do with your type. Take the time to get to know a woman before you get emotionally invested in a relationship so that you know you are more compatible. Make sure your own needs are being met and don't just focus on the needs of the other person, I know I personally can be very bad for this one.
 
I will preface by saying, I don't know.

Here's what my immediate instinct was though: There's too much reserve and careful presentation.

I know as a female infj, I personally have a tendency to be reserved and careful about how I chose to present myself. I've seen similar behavior in others on this forum both male and female. I think with females society makes it easier because we can be reserved and careful and men will often approach and eventually draw us out. Men are more often expected to be the initiator. My sense is that most infj men can gather the energy to meet the task of being initiator, but there is still a need to protect vulnerability, so there is a sense of formality and reserve to the presentation. For some that formality may be off-putting and for others endearing. But even for those who find it endearing, eventually that formality has to slide away and a sense of real expression and vulnerability has to come out or there won't be intimacy. My sense is that the best-friend syndrome may come about because, in general, infj men may recognize they have to drop the formality a bit eventually, but they are not yet really comfortable being truly vulnerable. They instead may choose to be open in a receptive way and in an experiential way that only touches on more safe, tangential experience. So they inadvertently by that choice place themselves in a different realm of intimacy--friendship.

My sense is that for there to be true and deep intimacy, there has to be a willingness to be truly vulnerable. I think that's really hard for infj's in general.

I wouldn't recommend going around sharing sharing deep insecurities and weakness on a first date, but I think an awareness that you may be holding back and side-stepping true vulnerability in order to protect yourself from hurt as things begin to get intimate might be helpful. This awareness, and that of a possibly not desired outcome, may encourage one to take bigger risks with presentation of self. Revealing things that may not be accepted might mean rejection, but it might also mean real loving intimacy.

Add'l note: This is a general observation and may not be true for you or someone else or any infj but me for that matter. I just offer it in case you sense some truth for you in it.
 
This is my blanket advice for men in this position (and lesbians, who get friend-zoned more than any man ever could in his worst nightmares):

You have to let the ladies you're interested in know you're interested in them before they begin to see you as a friend. Seriously, it's just as annoying from the other side. I love having male friends who are just friends. So I'll get really close to a guy over a few months, or a year, or two years and then they're like "btw I want to date you." And there goes the friendship. This is probably as frustrating for me as being rejected as "just a friend" is for you. If you're interested in a girl, ask her on a date. That way your intentions are it known to her and she can either reject you straight up, or get to know you better as more than a friend. Be assertive in your desire for a relationship. Tell girls "I want to be in a relationship", not "I want a girlfriend" (which sounds whiny and objectifying) or "I want to be in a relationship with you" (which sounds a aggressive, unless you've already communicated to her, with your interactions that you like her, and she's reciprocated). Girls want to be with a guy who is not only sensitive and sweet, but who is still a man. I know it's so pre-feminist, but guys still have to make a first move. If a guy doesn't try to flirt with me (I would say doesn't ask me on a date, but that's never actually happened, and I think if a guy had the balls to ask me on a date straight up I would melt onto him on the spot, on principle alone - I don't even like guys) I assume he's not interested in me. Girls want to date guys who make them feel secure in the relationship. Girls like the guys they have one night stands with, or they flirt with/sleep with but never date (y'know the guys that friend-zoned guys call assholes) because the girl at least know the guy is interested in them in some sense, and they make them feel attractive, which makes them feel secure in the relationship; even if it is less than they want, they know it exists, unlike awkward "are we friends or are you secretly harbouring feelings for me?" friendships.

In a sentence: the reason you keep getting friend-zoned is because you're acting like just a friend.

Then wait it out until you find someone you're compatible with. This takes an unbearably long time for everyone, not just INFJs (though INFJs seem to get a lot more stressed out about it). And don't give a woman more than you can afford to lose.

Get it?
Got it.
Good.
 
Last edited:
mattles said:
This just so happens to be my first post and I fear that this one may be the most relevant post I will ever contribute to these forums. Heres a little background information before my question...

I am a true INFJ male, there was no category in which it was possible that at time I could be described as anything else but INFJ. I have had the worst luck with women, for whatever reason I always seem to meet the ones who just eventually hurt me in pretty significant ways. For whatever reason it doesn't quite matter what I do because it always has ended that way. That is to say, though, that things only end that way when they, by some sort of miracle, actually start. The hardest thing is actually finding a female who has feelings for me that are more than friendship. The question I want to ask some of you females is this...

What is it about INFJ males that make them unsuitable to be with? Maybe its not a question of suitability, but how is it that females never seem to respond to INFJ males in that way?

One thing that I've noticed is that a lot of INFJ males are always the best friend, or even just the casual friend or acquaintance. Any input would be greatly appreciated and very helpful.
Click to expand...

I'm married to an INFJ male. So, I don't find them unsuitable at all.
You just haven't found the right girl yet. But she's out there.
 
one thing I've learned on my quest for a girlfriend - do not ask for a female perspective on why you can't get one. Because honestly they do not know and are not supposed to know. It's a binary switch: either they feel attracted or they do not.

There are some truth in everything that has been said. Sometimes it's just the wrong girl. In my experience it accounts for some 20% of rejections. The rest is pure unfiltered douchebagerry on the male side.

Stating your intentions early on helps to prevent f-z. But that also means you'll be playing poker - by entering the relationship without really knowing the other person. It's quite possible for the attraction to grow out of friendship too. This approach has yielded better results for me.
 
Here's my two cents on the topic. Most INFJ males (or INFJ's in particular) are not good at expressing their feelings. For a girl, as tovlo mentioned, it isn't as much of a problem. For a guy, however, it becomes trickier because if the girl gets mixed or confusing signals as to whether a guy likes her or not, she might just decide to not bother with the situation. If he comes on as too passive, he'll be put in the "friend" status like Neuropedia mentioned. If the INFJ guy tries to express himself, he might come off as awkward or unable to show the "vulnerability" that tovlo mentioned.

For myself, when there is someone that piques my interest, they know and I know within a couple of months whether I want to pursue the relationship as a girlfriend status, or a friend status. Once that decision is made, it's hard to change your mind years down the road. You don't have to outright tell someone that you like her, but as long as she knows there's definite interest then it makes the relationship smoother.
 
Tamagochi said:
one thing I've learned on my quest for a girlfriend - do not ask for a female perspective on why you can't get one. Because honestly they do not know and are not supposed to know. It's a binary switch: either they feel attracted or they do not.
Click to expand...

Usually I agree with this sentiment and when I read the title my head jumped to things like "just be yourself" and "be confident", however I think the females in this thread actually did give a good perspective which maybe is an INFJ thing? because to be honest that's the first time I've seen that happen online. I'm not a female but I had to post in this thread because I know exactly how you feel because I'm pretty much exactly the same way. I do however think this is a problem for all introverts, not just INFJs. Many of us don't meet as many women because we can't stand living the crazy active on all the time social lives that extroverts live, so that limits the amount of women we would naturally build relationships with over time.
 
mattles said:
This just so happens to be my first post and I fear that this one may be the most relevant post I will ever contribute to these forums. Heres a little background information before my question...

I am a true INFJ male, there was no category in which it was possible that at time I could be described as anything else but INFJ. I have had the worst luck with women, for whatever reason I always seem to meet the ones who just eventually hurt me in pretty significant ways. For whatever reason it doesn't quite matter what I do because it always has ended that way. That is to say, though, that things only end that way when they, by some sort of miracle, actually start. The hardest thing is actually finding a female who has feelings for me that are more than friendship. The question I want to ask some of you females is this...

What is it about INFJ males that make them unsuitable to be with? Maybe its not a question of suitability, but how is it that females never seem to respond to INFJ males in that way?

One thing that I've noticed is that a lot of INFJ males are always the best friend, or even just the casual friend or acquaintance. Any input would be greatly appreciated and very helpful.
Click to expand...

You mean to say, you're getting friend zoned... your problem is self caused. Make a move. I am an INFJ male, and truth be told, girls love me, the only time i ever had trouble like you are having, was when i was too passive, and too afraid to make a move. This is the best advice you are going to get here, trust me... you dont need a female perspective, on this you just need to realize that you arent making a bold enough move, women often wait for guys to make moves.
 
Bird said:
You're being sensitive (:


As I state often, you shouldn't
pay attention to MBTI type, but
focus on compatibility when engaging
in relationships.

The problem is not that you are a
male INFJ but rather that you're dating
women you aren't compatible with (:




Try finding a lady-friend that is a little
more dominant?
Click to expand...

I doubt it is even that, he is more then likely playing the "nice guy" and forgetting to make a move on the girl of his desire. INFJ males are undesirable? since when lol... IME being an INFJ male has made me more desirable, women are often drawn to my sensitivities and desire to connect.
 
Bird said:
You're being sensitive (:


As I state often, you shouldn't
pay attention to MBTI type, but
focus on compatibility when engaging
in relationships.

The problem is not that you are a
male INFJ but rather that you're dating
women you aren't compatible with (:




Try finding a lady-friend that is a little
more dominant?
Click to expand...
MBTI can help a little in relationships, but the real trueth of things happen in real life. Pick people who fit you or that you go well with. I like to go out a lot and have a good time...so I like people who do the same. End of story
 
Bird said:
You're being sensitive (:


As I state often, you shouldn't
pay attention to MBTI type, but
focus on compatibility when engaging
in relationships.

The problem is not that you are a
male INFJ but rather that you're dating
women you aren't compatible with (:




Try finding a lady-friend that is a little
more dominant?
Click to expand...


I agree with this also. I don't think it's your MBTI type at all, I think it's more that you haven't found the right girl as of yet. :)
Find someone who fits you well. A girl that has a mind similar to you, someone you can have great conversations with. :)
She will find you, and you will find her. Just have patience :)
 
I'm 19 and i have the same problem. Billy is right and this is something that I have been realizing lately: i am way to passive and subtle. Women like men who take charge and have opinions. You suffer from nice guy syndrome like myself. You don't have to be a dick to get women, you just need to be more confident. For the record, this is one of those times where i know what to do about my situation but just don't do it So, everything I said above may be entirely false.
 
now, heres the thing. i have gotten quite good advice from you lot so far, but herein lies the problem. I dont have a problem letting my intentions known, nor do i really have any problems with confidence. there are time when i have been put into the friend zone because i realized the female would be better off as a friend than a girlfriend. Yes, i am sensitive, but thats not to say im playing the nice guy. I consider myself a gentleman in the truest sense, as do almost all others that i know. Im a man and i dont have a problem making the first move either, but it seems that every girl i have met so far where i have pursued something, have changed after some time and for one reason or another havent felt like i was good enough for them.

Ive actually been told that quite a few times, if im being completely honest. I also have to say that ive pursued a veritable array of females and the only conclusion i have been able to come to is that there must be something about me.

Not to say that in the "im such a horrible person and no one will care about me" kind of way, but that theres something unappealing to females. Im not the most attractive guy, but i make do, so what ive gathered is that maybe its something with my personality.

If i could re-state my question i guess it would go more so like this...

Is there anything about INFJ males that you find unappealing?

Part of me wonders that because im not that guy who runs around looking to just get laid and being a douche and saying whatever i need to get into a girls pants im type casted as safe.

Any new input?
 
i think that im the same way, maybe not abusive, but for some reason even the ladies i honestly feel like is a decent person and who goes to some lengths to "prove" that they are, they always end up changing for the worst. my last "relationship" was with a girl who always told me how lucky she was to have me, how much she loved being with me, and how much better i made her life. Then she left me for some guy she knew for a month because he said she was his soulmate and proposed to her. Having apparently had that big of an impact on her life wasnt even enough to keep her around, so is it something i did? Thats the biggest question i ask myself.
 
no idea, but i was the reason she had a job, had a place to live, and was in her words "the only person who tried every day to prove they cared". she never went without anything really, she never had any complaints even when things ended, but she could never tell me why this happened. i hate to say it like this but i make a really great boyfriend, not quite sure what it is about me though that makes people so easy to leave. i dont know if it even is about me or if i just have the worst luck on the face of this planet.

Kierseys site with the descriptions of Jungs typology hit the nail on the head with me, not much was said negatively in that description. Im not quite sure what the hell happens, but i make a move or dont make a move, always seems to go the same way.
 
maybe she realized that she needed conflict? perfect relationships can be boring to some people

I broke up with someone in a few months ago because he wouldn't fight. Though, that being said, he wasn't much of a conversationalist, either.
 
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