How much do criminals contribute? | INFJ Forum

How much do criminals contribute?

Discussion in 'Relationships and Sociology' started by the, Aug 11, 2010.

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  1. the

    the Si master race.
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    Does anyone know of any good studies concerning what criminals as individuals contribute to society over their lifetime? Thanks for the help.
     
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    #1 the, Aug 11, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2010
  2. TinyBubbles

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    by contribute, do you mean monetarily?
     
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  3. OP
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    Not necessarily monetarily but it would probably easiest to do it that way.
     
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  4. TinyBubbles

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    well i don't know of any studies (but they're probably out there), but my personal opinion is that social deviants, such as criminals, contribute a lot to the progression of society. they highlight cracks in the legal system, which others are too willing to ignore - even if it's only by exploiting those cracks.
     
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  5. Bird

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    This is very interesting and something I never considered before. I would definitely have to agree with your thinking on this subject.



    Criminals also help monetarily. Especially for states/counties. With probation fees and weekly meetings for things such as alcohol awareness classes and anger management classes it's hard to deny that they create a source of revenue. However it's also hard to determine whether these costs outweigh the amount of money it takes to run an institution such as a prison.
     
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    #5 Bird, Aug 11, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2010
  6. OP
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    Can u give an example? My mind is stuck on the notion that it doesnt matter if we highlight the cracks because the criminals shouldnt be taking advantage of people or the systems in which people operate in the first place. We can make rule upon rule upon rule but at least in my school, we never had a class that taught dont do XYZ because it is against the law. You are just supposed to 'know' not to do it. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, or something to that effect.
     
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  7. TinyBubbles

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    i would, but not right now, my mind's a little fuzzy at the moment :/ i'll say it's more for the benefit of future societies than it is for present societies though, and that nobody just 'knows' things, it's always picked up from and through others and the environment, if only subconsciously.
     
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  8. OP
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    What do you mean 'just knows things'?
     
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  9. Faye

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    That sounds ridiculously difficult to quantify, so I doubt you'll ever find any data on it. You need a working definition of "contribute" to start off.
     
  10. Odyne

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    Can we consider Community Service as part of that contribution?

    If so, you can narrow the research and find out what kind of community services are given to criminals, and see how those services contribute or affect society.
     
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  11. OP
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    I dont see why. We could start with an easy way of just seeing how much money people who have been to prison make in their lifetime. From there we could see how much they make before and after prison. So on.
     
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  12. DoveAlexa

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  13. sassafras

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    I'm assuming you mean the income they make from their jobs, not from any sort of government support service.

    Former inmates in general have a difficult time easing back into the workforce. Understandably, they face a lot of stigma from potential employers and most jobs that they can get tend to be low-income or minimum wage. Not mention, it's tough for them to educate or re-train. Courses or programs that help prepare students for better-paid occupations are not subsidized by the government and fees are out-of-pocket... something that holds many low-income workers (not just former inmates) at a disadvantage. It doesn't surprise me that many of these former inmates are statistically more likely to re-offend.

    I really like the suggestions put forth in this article.

    As for your request, next time I'm at work, I'll log into stats-can and see if I can dig any relevant statistics up.
     
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    #13 sassafras, Aug 12, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2010
  14. Faye

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    Well, a lot of the people are imprisoned for doing damage to other people or financial crimes, which would have to be counted as a negative contribution if you want to look at it financially. Yes, you could look at how much money they make, but then that would just produce a bunch of skewed yet widely touted figures, largely because of the influence of class on the numbers. Poor people don't contribute much to society monetarily relative to rich people, but they often do jobs that are essential to the economy. Then you have people like Bernie Madoff (well, he is a special case).

    The big thing though is that I don't see how knowing how much people make as a group would provide meaningful data for any government or private institution. The only way I can see the data being used is to exacerbate the problems already in place in our corrupt justice system and society's attitude toward the system.
     
  15. OP
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    Well maybe my attitude on the subject is just too positive :(
     
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  16. OP
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    Thanks for the info I appreciate any further help you can give me.
     
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  17. NeverAmI

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    Okay, so I just repeated TDHT without statistical evidence, hehe.

    To me, it has always seemed like our society makes it nearly impossible to contribute as an ordinary citizen after one major fault. More through employers being able to screen them, and nearly always doing so.

    Screw up once, you get the shit jobs. Not a very good motivator to contribute to society.
     
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  18. DoveAlexa

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    Especially when there is a multitude of ways to get sent to jail. Seems to be tinier and tinier offences get you a criminal record. Though, you can get pardoned, I don't really hear about people getting one.
     
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  19. OP
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    Yes I agree abotu the screw up once thing.

    I found some article that was saying that a ex prisoners only make 1-5% less in their lifetime. Seems unrealistic but I didnt have access to the whole book it was in.
     
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  20. Razare

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    Ehh, you can't look at financial crimes and say they're a negative necessarily. Bernie Madoff didn't destroy money, he just lied about how much interest was being produced.

    Blowing up a building destroys wealth, pyramid schemes just invest the money poorly from an economic standpoint. From an economic standpoint it doesn't matter if X lost 50k and Y got 50k, because the 50k is still there.

    Looking at this financially is absurd.

    Here's the only way you could even begin to look at this somewhat objectively, and that would be by becoming highly subjective. You focus on 1 prison. You focus on a randomized group of a few hundred inmates, get a background history on them. Then follow them as they leave that prison and live their lives.

    Gather a collection of life-stories, and other data on them such as income, job, health, and so on.

    Follow them until they all die off, then compile the various case studies and look at it all.

    Did some of them successfully raise kids as responsible parents?

    Did they hold jobs after prison and stay out of crime?

    Did they go back into prison?

    And this study would be meaningless because it's so subjective and specific, but it's the only way you'd be able to enter into the necessary depth that is required. Trying to formulate people's lives into some quantifiable number isn't likely to work in this instance.
     
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