How do you change another person's opinion?

[Joonas]

How do you get people to listen to you? I know that religions have been wildly successful at making people change their minds, but why is it that I'm not able to change one single thing in another person's perspective?

Here's one of my recent attempts at trying to prove my point (unsuccessfully). The Adfilter deleted my thread once for posting an URL so I had to screenshot it.

 

[Curiosilla]

How do you get people to listen to you? I know that religions have been wildly successful at making people change their minds, but why is it that I'm not able to change one single thing in another person's perspective?

Here's one of my recent attempts at trying to prove my point (unsuccessfully).

The Adfilter deleted my thread once for posting an URL so I had to screenshot it.

I cant see that--it stays the same size after I click it...but eitherway, why are you trying to change their perspective? On what type of things?

 

[~jet]

Religion has a way of working on you from a very young age when your brain is most inclined to LEARN; unlearning it later is far harder. Still, if you really want people to change, you can't make them do it.. they have to want to. One good method is called 'stone soup.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_soup

 

[Phoenix Down]

why is it that I'm not able to change one single thing in another person's perspective?

That's an easy one. You're not this guy.

You can't force anyone to see things the way you do.
The only thoughts and perceptions you have control over are those of your own.

Perhaps I misunderstand the question.

What is your goal?

 

[Joonas]

Now that you can see the picture, it should make more sense what it is that I'm talking about. I'm trying to make people understand a situation better, or from another perspective, and so far I've always failed at it.

 

[Curiosilla]

AH Okay...I was thinking more along the lines of their beliefs (religion and such and such)

on current social issues well... it's hard to try to get people to fit into someone else's shoes if they are "certain" they don't wear the same size. There is envy, disbelief, and just plain "well it's not MY problem." attitudes that tend to be quite fixed so they joke about it badly. Where was this posted? Is this always your audience?

 

[Poetic Justice]

Maybe you were just wrong

Try being right

 

[Oranguh]

Use Ne.

 

[Arsal]

Religions rely on emotional manipulation, mainly, to convert people and gain their confidence by promising to rid them of their fears and insecurities. It's very tactful, but it is essentially a form of brain-washing.

Do you really want to brain-wash others to comply with your ethics?
Does that not seem highly unethical to yourself?

Let people have ignorant opinions, if they must. Make your statements and move on. If they choose to be ignorant, there's nothing you can do to change that; if they don't, then they'll listen to what you have to say, and put it against their own moral/logical viewpoint to see its validity. Ultimately, it is their choice in how they live their life, and there's very little you can do to control their actions from behind a monitor screen.

I understand this is frustrating, but you need to let go of the assumption that your opinion is paramount, and be open to alternate views towards life. There's no objective right or wrong, only whims and certain orientations towards certain behavior.

Cheers and best of luck.

 

[Joonas]

AH Okay...I was thinking more along the lines of their beliefs (religion and such and such)

on current social issues well... it's hard to try to get people to fit into someone else's shoes if they are "certain" they don't wear the same size. There is envy, disbelief, and just plain "well it's not MY problem." attitudes that tend to be quite fixed so they joke about it badly. Where was this posted? Is this always your audience?

It's on fudzilla, and yes, pretty much. I rarely post stuff and I only post when nobody has said my view on the subject.

 

[This]

Arguments are usually futile, even if you win both parties walk away feeling resentment towards the other party. It's something I'm trying to work on, myself.

 

[Curiosilla]

It's on fudzilla, and yes, pretty much. I rarely post stuff and I only post when nobody has said my view on the subject.

then if your always going to this crowd you will keep getting similar responses...don't want to sound too obvious... but it's my initial thought.

I think it's good to express your view but not with an expectation to change someones point of view. Sometimes people can sense that and it's better if you just express yourself and leave it open. You should also try to understand their points of views too. Dont come off as too eager to make a change. Remember they have their own points of views too.

 

[invisible]

this is small fry and these people are losers. you are wasting even more time getting frustrated over these people who will probably stay jerks whether you change their opinions on this particular issue or not. save your energy for changing the opinions that really matter to you and work out lifetime strategies how you can make a big difference to changing them. if they're not worth giving significant time and energy to, rather than an argument on an internet forum, then you should let them go, and get on with things that really matter to you.

it's not wrong to want to change someone's opinion. some opinions are more coherent and make more sense than others. or when many opinions can be equally right, sometimes it helps to enlarge general opinions and perspectives by adding your own opinion to the mix. there's really nothing wrong with that. if it's important to you then go for it. just be clear about what's really important.

imho

 

[Joonas]

Maybe you were just wrong

Try being right

Not very helpful . I don't see how my reasoning could be wrong, but it's very possible that I've failed to take something vital into account. I've yet to be pointed in the right direction though.

Religions rely on emotional manipulation, mainly, to convert people and gain their confidence by promising to rid them of their fears and insecurities. It's very tactful, but it is essentially a form of brain-washing.

Do you really want to brain-wash others to comply with your ethics?
Does that not seem highly unethical to yourself?

Let people have ignorant opinions, if they must. Make your statements and move on. If they choose to be ignorant, there's nothing you can do to change that; if they don't, then they'll listen to what you have to say, and put it against their own moral/logical viewpoint to see its validity. Ultimately, it is their choice in how they live their life, and there's very little you can do to control their actions from behind a monitor screen.

I understand this is frustrating, but you need to let go of the assumption that your opinion is paramount, and be open to alternate views towards life. There's no objective right or wrong, only whims and certain orientations towards certain behavior.

Cheers and best of luck.

I don't want to brain-wash anyone, I'm trying to understand why people won't listen to me so that I could explain myself better and get better results for both of us (he will understand me and show me why I'm wrong or vice versa). Giving people false assumptions or hiding various details from them just to prove my point is something I'm very opposed of.

 

[Arsal]

I don't want to brain-wash anyone, I'm trying to understand why people won't listen to me so that I could explain myself better and get better results for both of us (he will understand me and show me why I'm wrong or vice versa). Giving people false assumptions or hiding various details from them just to prove my point is something I'm very opposed of.

(I should have said, forcing them to comply with your reasoning, rather than brain-washing. The latter contains far too many negative connotations to properly convey the meaning I intended.)

"I'm trying to understand why people won't listen to me"

Here's my opinion of this: sometimes, what makes sense to you is not necessarily going to make sense to someone else. This is because their minds have been conditioned to certain modes of thinking (just as you have) and have certain ways of perception that they feel most comfortable with. When a third-party comes in to question their preexisting worldview with a foreign reasoning, they become defensive, and sometimes even offensive, as it means for them to go back and reconsider something they thought they knew for sure.

Think of these perceptions as trees; one point-of-view branches off with several different points-of-view, which in turn, branch off to many others. Letting go of one (root), means letting go of the branches that follow it. This, I must imagine must be tiring for many.

From an typological point of view, as an INFJ (I'm assuming?) this is second nature to you, as Ni is your dominant function, and you are constantly perceiving/considering alternate view-points to select the best course of action. But many people are not as comfortable with their Ni/Ne, and tend to avoid engaging in it.

Or perhaps, these people are just trolls. You never know.
This is the internet after all.

"...so that I could explain myself better and get better results for both of us"

Maybe you should tighten up your arguments with a strong logical basis and eliminate any ethical bias, as many people consider ethics to be highly subjective. (Not that it would make much of a difference if you target audience is made up of trolls, or people who are too conditioned to a certain mode of thinking.)

 

[Phoenix Down]

Now that you can see the picture, it should make more sense what it is that I'm talking about. I'm trying to make people understand a situation better, or from another perspective, and so far I've always failed at it.

Okay first of all. This is the internet.

I couldn't see said picture so I'm going to make an assumption here.

You can't MAKE people listen to you. And you can't make them see you're perspective. Perhaps they ARE taking different possible perspectives into account... none of which are yours. And perhaps they DO fully understand the situation. Just because they don't agree with you doesn't mean they don't see your point.

Say for example you're trying to get me to take pity on a girl that sleeps around and got knocked up by some scumbag (you're probably also trying to get me to hate on him). Yeah I can see how that can suck, but quite frankly, I'm going to think she kinda had it coming. You can tell me the guy lied to her about something, or that she really thought blah blah, or other situational drama. I still think she's a slut whore.

I'm not denying reasons for actions... there's a reason for everything. Just because a 6 year old has "poor" bladder control. Doesn't mean I think its okay for the parent to keep to just take a piss wherever he/she/it pleases.

If you want people to agree with you, you have to make a compelling argument that appeals to your audience. And more importantly, you need to establish your own credibility.

 

[Poetic Justice]

Belief in religion isn't based on logic so no logical argument will sway someone who truly believes. There is a part of the brain that deals specifically with religious beliefs and experiences and it doesn't care about logic. I'm not 100% sure about this but I think it's not even connected to the parts of the brain that deal with rationalism and logic.

Why do you want to change religious beliefs? who says it's better to not believe? Their beliefs could be providing a useful service to the person and changing that belief could do untold psychological damage. for example what if someones parent or child dies and the only thing which keeps the person from having a nervous breakdown from grief is the belief that they have gone to heaven and they will see them again? What is the purpose of challenging this belief?

How do you know you are right? what makes you think that anyones quality of life would be improved by conforming to your beliefs?

simple answer is, you can't know that.

 

[DevilDoll]

Why are you so set on changing someone's opinion?

 

[Kgal]

Joonas - you have good intentions here - that's plain to see. I also happen to agree with your perspective with regard to the hacker thread.
imo - the other person has to trust you before they'll open up and consider your words. Until then - all you say is moot. Invisible makes a good case there when he said you need to choose your arguments where you think you might have a chance.
Another thought I had when I read through this is that old statement: When the student is ready - the teacher will appear. Your objective of posting your thoughts when no one else has expressed them is a good idea in that someone lurking may actually respond to your post with curiosity. Then - you'll know you might have a chance of engaging minds - yours and theirs - and both come away learning something of value.

You have to learn to be able to recognize those people who are willing to think - and those who follow the common prevailing mindset. In other words - they don't think. Those guys in that thread don't really think. They just know it didn't affect them one way or the other. They are completely wrong of course - but there is no way you can get a person to see past the nose on their face with stories such as the hacker thread.

I'd say keep throwing out your point of view with the idea that maybe some will get it - and maybe some won't. Please don't be frustrated by it all and quit.

 

[Joonas]

I probably should have posted this tomorrow rather than today because I have to study for a math exam now. There are some comments here that made my mood skyrocket, but more on that tomorrow