This definitely rings true for me, but also in the sense that God provides what individuals need. One of the mysteries of the faith seems to be that of 'each according to his needs'. The adversarial person is saved through spiritual warfare with the Devil; the caring through charity, and so on. God is like a Father developing each of his children according to their special talents and personalities.
How can I know if God exists?
- Thread starter Rose07
- Start date
This definitely rings true for me, but also in the sense that God provides what individuals need. One of the mysteries of the faith seems to be that of 'each according to his needs'. The adversarial person is saved through spiritual warfare with the Devil; the caring through charity, and so on. God is like a Father developing each of his children according to their special talents and personalities.
Reminds me of those born blind. They "SEE" better than most with their other senses. Those we think have problems may solve problems better than we. My loneliness was overshadowed with His presence.
I call to birds all the time. Don't much care what others think should they think I am crazy. Some may find it a gift to acknowledge their presence and call to them. Today, there were two hawks talking back and forth about 200 yards away from each other. I joined in to let them be acknowledged, and know someone appreciated them. When the one flew to the other, the one came low right over my head. That was a gift to me and my heart was thrilled and joyful. I have a new friend. Two months ago, a kite
dove at me until very close from up high, only to be run off by a mockingbird. I fell backward onto the asphalt as he flew over me and the mockingbird interfered. What a sight. Already the mockingbird comes to sing with me when I go outside sometimes.
I love most birds, though there are a couple I do not like hanging around.
When I lived in Oklahoma, the mockingbirds used to love to sit in the pear tree in the back yard.
I would put a loudspeaker in my window, and then play sounds from a modular synthesizer.
It was amazing what they could successfully mimic.
I do still call to birds. My pleasure is such that I’ve never given thought to the idea I must seem a nutter. Or perhaps I accepted that fact long ago, and no longer bother questioning the truth of it.
Cheers,
Ian
I think the biggest feature of the Gospels that make this clear is how it repeatedly makes the point that the Kingdom of God is for everyone, but especially sinners. From the righteous it asks for lifelong righteousness, but from the sinner it asks only for repentance, and we are not to rankle at this.
An amazing thing that happens when someone truly accepts this into their heart is a cascade of forgiveness that pours out into one's own life; everything is healed. Every wound is salved. To be Godly we are asked to love as God loves, and then watch what it does for our lives. Even if we can only manage it for a short time, it's revolutionary.
So I think this is a bit of a faith-based answer to the OP's question, too. How can I know if God exists? You can adopt the practice and see what happens; see how you feel and how your oldest pathologies dissolve into nothing. This is from a Christian perspective, of course, but there might be other ways to do it. I'm sorry if my answers are overly faith-based or Christian, but this is what I'm familiar with.
An amazing thing that happens when someone truly accepts this into their heart is a cascade of forgiveness that pours out into one's own life; everything is healed. Every wound is salved. To be Godly we are asked to love as God loves, and then watch what it does for our lives. Even if we can only manage it for a short time, it's revolutionary.
So I think this is a bit of a faith-based answer to the OP's question, too. How can I know if God exists? You can adopt the practice and see what happens; see how you feel and how your oldest pathologies dissolve into nothing. This is from a Christian perspective, of course, but there might be other ways to do it. I'm sorry if my answers are overly faith-based or Christian, but this is what I'm familiar with.
C.S. Lewis gave a series of talks on radio early in World War 2, the contents of which were subsequently published in a book called 'Mere Christianity'. It's well worth a read for anyone who is interested in a more logical presentation of why someone might believe in a personal God. Lewis himself was an Oxford University don and was a strong atheist who converted to Christianity and became one of it's most lucid champions in his day. His presentation in this book is inevitably of his times and can seem a little dated now, but I'm sure that's not a stumbling block for us intuitives.
The CSLewisDoodle channel on YouTube has recreated the radio broadcasts in a very entertaining way - I've listened to a couple and they are good. Here's a link to the third of these talks, which explores humans' instinctive feel for morality, and you can find the rest of the talks on the channel's page.
The CSLewisDoodle channel on YouTube has recreated the radio broadcasts in a very entertaining way - I've listened to a couple and they are good. Here's a link to the third of these talks, which explores humans' instinctive feel for morality, and you can find the rest of the talks on the channel's page.
I think it's possible that God exists, although I believe that it wouldn't require a supernatural explanation if that turns out to be the case.
Consider the idea that we are in a simulation. Who is the simulation's programmer? Can you prove this isn't a simulation?
If the reality we live in is a simulation, then God is just a programmer. There's no need to believe in magic or anything supernatural... perhaps our universe is a simulation run by advanced technology beyond our comprehension, and God exists outside of space and time from our perspective because he is out there, outside the simulation, maybe he built the computer running it or maintains it.
Alternatively, if you believe in Jung's concept of the collective unconscious, then God could be one of the archetypes within it, something that lives within all of us and binds us together with a common purpose somehow. Maybe the point of religion, then, would be to tap into that power, to prevent disunity, to prevent sin... something in our minds that somehow helps us sense when others are engaging in behavior that's bad for the collective and our future children.
There's no need to reduce it to simple belief in magic or the supernatural. If God exists, it could be something very different from what people assume.
Consider the idea that we are in a simulation. Who is the simulation's programmer? Can you prove this isn't a simulation?
If the reality we live in is a simulation, then God is just a programmer. There's no need to believe in magic or anything supernatural... perhaps our universe is a simulation run by advanced technology beyond our comprehension, and God exists outside of space and time from our perspective because he is out there, outside the simulation, maybe he built the computer running it or maintains it.
Alternatively, if you believe in Jung's concept of the collective unconscious, then God could be one of the archetypes within it, something that lives within all of us and binds us together with a common purpose somehow. Maybe the point of religion, then, would be to tap into that power, to prevent disunity, to prevent sin... something in our minds that somehow helps us sense when others are engaging in behavior that's bad for the collective and our future children.
There's no need to reduce it to simple belief in magic or the supernatural. If God exists, it could be something very different from what people assume.
Mere Christianity was a great read, as I read it decades ago. Think he also wrote The Narnicles
( Chronicles of Narnia).
I agree. Yes, he wrote the Narnia stories, which is where most people will have come across him. Have you read The Screwtape Letters? That’s a really very funny, yet very penetrating presentation of Christianity. Again, a book of its times but still great fun.
Reading through this thread reminded me of this chapter:
By time,
Indeed, mankind is in loss,
Except for those who have believed and done righteous deeds and advised each other to truth and advised each other to patience.
— The Quran (110:1-3)
May we all continue to seek the truth as this thread reflects
By time,
Indeed, mankind is in loss,
Except for those who have believed and done righteous deeds and advised each other to truth and advised each other to patience.
— The Quran (110:1-3)
May we all continue to seek the truth as this thread reflects
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Let me give you all this thought experiment.
Imagine Situation A : God exists.
All is good blabla... Until :
God is bored and decides to leave.
Which leads to Situation B : God does not exist.
Because God is allmighty, surely he can decide to leave us without his absence ever to be truly felt.
God in the grander squeme does not impact the very law that makes our universe existing possible.
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So why even care if God exists or not? If God's absence or presence doesn't impact the world?
Yes or No answer, it doesn't change anything we can have an impact on.
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What we can possibly have an impact on is : How we deal with being alive, and how do we feel about it? That's a more interesting question actually.
How do I feel about that and this? What does it mean about me? About humankind? About society? These are the questions. Things to ponder on.
And yes, religious belief is quasy essential in human development. Out of 100 people, 85 have religious beliefs in some way in this world. I, myself, am an apatheist, which means "I don't care wether God exists or not". But there are many more exemples of beliefs, and I'm sure you can come up with quiet a few possible other exemples of religious affiliation.
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Also...
To ponder more on this subject, I highly reccomend the reading of Eric Durkheim's works. And his idea of anomie. The need for a superior instance is indeed at the very core of our survival instinct (bad paraphrase, but anyway).
Also the book Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari.
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As to the skeptiks who consider God's existence as something utterly stupid. Sure it may seem idiotic if we try and represent it in a Biblical/Q'ran/Torahic accurate kinda form. But these are but one of many possible form a God can take.
For all we know, God could be just a programmer, and we all live in a simulation. And suddenly the hypothesis becomes less stupid.
But what does it matter anyway? Back to the main question... Why care if God exists or not?
-------------------------------------------------------
Let me give you all this thought experiment.
Imagine Situation A : God exists.
All is good blabla... Until :
God is bored and decides to leave.
Which leads to Situation B : God does not exist.
Because God is allmighty, surely he can decide to leave us without his absence ever to be truly felt.
God in the grander squeme does not impact the very law that makes our universe existing possible.
-------------------------------------------------------
So why even care if God exists or not? If God's absence or presence doesn't impact the world?
Yes or No answer, it doesn't change anything we can have an impact on.
-------------------------------------------------------
What we can possibly have an impact on is : How we deal with being alive, and how do we feel about it? That's a more interesting question actually.
How do I feel about that and this? What does it mean about me? About humankind? About society? These are the questions. Things to ponder on.
And yes, religious belief is quasy essential in human development. Out of 100 people, 85 have religious beliefs in some way in this world. I, myself, am an apatheist, which means "I don't care wether God exists or not". But there are many more exemples of beliefs, and I'm sure you can come up with quiet a few possible other exemples of religious affiliation.
-------------------------------------------------------
Also...
To ponder more on this subject, I highly reccomend the reading of Eric Durkheim's works. And his idea of anomie. The need for a superior instance is indeed at the very core of our survival instinct (bad paraphrase, but anyway).
Also the book Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari.
-------------------------------------------------------
As to the skeptiks who consider God's existence as something utterly stupid. Sure it may seem idiotic if we try and represent it in a Biblical/Q'ran/Torahic accurate kinda form. But these are but one of many possible form a God can take.
For all we know, God could be just a programmer, and we all live in a simulation. And suddenly the hypothesis becomes less stupid.
But what does it matter anyway? Back to the main question... Why care if God exists or not?
-------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to the forum @Imnosuperman
On a more practical note there is the Philosopher Blaise Pascal's wager:
I suppose it depends on the possible consequences for you:
On a more practical note there is the Philosopher Blaise Pascal's wager:
By focusing on God so much you forget yourself, then you will find and know God.
"I suppose it depends on the possible consequences for you:"
Consequences may arise indeed. But what is the way to prevent them?
How to know what to believe? For all we know God could be a stoic God who punishes all who put value on believing on something without evidence. Maybe the best way to be accepted by that sort of God is through agnosticism. Maybe said God allow access to a "Heaven" based on how many people you've slept with, how good your sex life is. Maybe he/she put to hell those who have more than three children. Maybe, maybe... So many possibilities.
How to know for sure which God to follow and which not to follow? Seems like a random guess to me. So why care anyway?
-------------------------------------------------------
Also...
Blaise Pascal's wager is a nice way of reasoning. But I don't think it applies to religion (ironically).
Because, like, somehow... Hmm : the wrath you mentioned in your video was one of Zeus. Aren't you afraid Zeus is gonna be mad if you don't believe in his doctrines? And follow a deceiving God? Sure seems like something to be afraid about.
Consequences may arise indeed. But what is the way to prevent them?
How to know what to believe? For all we know God could be a stoic God who punishes all who put value on believing on something without evidence. Maybe the best way to be accepted by that sort of God is through agnosticism. Maybe said God allow access to a "Heaven" based on how many people you've slept with, how good your sex life is. Maybe he/she put to hell those who have more than three children. Maybe, maybe... So many possibilities.
How to know for sure which God to follow and which not to follow? Seems like a random guess to me. So why care anyway?
-------------------------------------------------------
Also...
Blaise Pascal's wager is a nice way of reasoning. But I don't think it applies to religion (ironically).
Because, like, somehow... Hmm : the wrath you mentioned in your video was one of Zeus. Aren't you afraid Zeus is gonna be mad if you don't believe in his doctrines? And follow a deceiving God? Sure seems like something to be afraid about.
LOL that video was tongue in cheek. I get the impression though that the Roman and Greek gods needed to be placated as much as appealed to - you ignored them at your peril within that worldview.
Pascal was a gambler as well as a philosopher, and invented much of the mathematical foundations of probability theory in his quest to beak the casinos of his day. His argument has relevance as long as you entertain the remotest possibility that you survive death - why take the risk?
It's actually incorrect to say that there is no evidence of God - every religion is based on some sort of evidence, and everyone who has had a mystical experience has encountered God personally in some form. Now you might argue that such evidence is inaccessible to you, but you cannot really say that unless you have searched it out, studied it and thought about it and looked for God in earnest yourself. You might argue that you don't accept evidence that you cannot prove, but we do that all the time with most things. Very few of us could prove that the world is round, or that global warming is real, and not just a 20 year random fluke in the world's climate - we rely on what people who are specialists in their field tell us, and this is no different from seeing what specialists in God tell us.
I'm too lazy to answer to it all. But, what I meant with Pascal's wager was :
Let there be P(A) for probability of God existing and P(B) for probability of God not existing.
So long P(A) > 0 and P(B) < 1,and so long the wagger means an ultimate reward if A = 1, then :
The wagger makes sense.
BUT...
What about P(C), P(D), P(E), etc.? There's an infinite possibilies of Gods everexisting.
I don't mean to call Pascal dumb. But he sure forgot about this tiny little detail.
He made the incorrect assumption that this was like flipping a coin. But we don't live in a binary world.
Sure, he could argue back and say that the reasoning still has some ground because, whatever the number of possibilities, the reasoning still is true. (Too lazy to explain why). But : so is any kind of wagger for that matter.
Any kind of behavior can be rewarded in some way or another depending on the God. Hence the absurdity of the said wagger.
But anyway... Thank you for listening.
P.S. : Whoever responds, please don't feel pressured to. Think first (please).
Let there be P(A) for probability of God existing and P(B) for probability of God not existing.
So long P(A) > 0 and P(B) < 1,and so long the wagger means an ultimate reward if A = 1, then :
The wagger makes sense.
BUT...
What about P(C), P(D), P(E), etc.? There's an infinite possibilies of Gods everexisting.
I don't mean to call Pascal dumb. But he sure forgot about this tiny little detail.
He made the incorrect assumption that this was like flipping a coin. But we don't live in a binary world.
Sure, he could argue back and say that the reasoning still has some ground because, whatever the number of possibilities, the reasoning still is true. (Too lazy to explain why). But : so is any kind of wagger for that matter.
Any kind of behavior can be rewarded in some way or another depending on the God. Hence the absurdity of the said wagger.
But anyway... Thank you for listening.
P.S. : Whoever responds, please don't feel pressured to. Think first (please).
I think. Therefore, I AM.
It is no longer I, but Christ that dwelleth inside me.
This is a statement [or two ], not an answer.
It is no longer I, but Christ that dwelleth inside me.
This is a statement [or two ], not an answer.
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The only thing I want to say is true science is not reductionistic it is expansive; the current paradigm of science that is characterized in the popular modern thought of science will come to an end sooner rather than later; there is a spirit to the scientific enterprise as modern science arose from alchemy, paganism, and Grecian natural philosophy disciplined under the Christain will to truth. We shouldn't ask does God exist we should ask are human being better off without believing in God and identifying with and relying upon intuition, creativity, and the Imago Dei that exists in all people by way of the evolutionary, cultural, and historical pressures towards being a religious animal and to me the answer is absolutely not!
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“How can I know if God exists?”
Follow your intuition
Cheers
Follow your intuition
Cheers
Charles Darwin wrote, "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous successive slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."
The study of the flagellum? How can one prove the flagellum has evolved? It cannot work without all its parts. From what I read, it is impossible to have been formed by numerous successive slight modifications. Is it not a delivery system of DNA to the egg?
I do not wish to prove God exists, but rather creation happened. As big as our universe is, our position is precise for life. Life happened in a moment. Most all our theories have yet to be proven. Has the speed of light ever been recorded or measured, or do we ingest what we have been told. Does light travel the same speed going the direction of earth's spin, and going against it? We measure its reflection and add it to its direction in a vacuum. Does light travel the same in a reflection?
When I confronted Science in the eighth grade, I walked away from it. I saw pictures disrupting my knowledge. I was young. I should have grabbed it by the horns and confronted it. When in English eleventh grade, our teacher used a poem to see what we would surmise. She said it was about God. I walked away. I should have made a statement and debated her views and the poem's words very closely.
"Fool On A Hill" may be about how someone that knows very little about God thinks, but their knowledge of the matter was all wrong. One of the greatest challenges in life is to know. We simply do not know by walking away, and we simply do not know without getting deeper into things This have I learned through experience. Walking away may give reason to doubt, but there is no doubt when we find our answers.
The study of the flagellum? How can one prove the flagellum has evolved? It cannot work without all its parts. From what I read, it is impossible to have been formed by numerous successive slight modifications. Is it not a delivery system of DNA to the egg?
I do not wish to prove God exists, but rather creation happened. As big as our universe is, our position is precise for life. Life happened in a moment. Most all our theories have yet to be proven. Has the speed of light ever been recorded or measured, or do we ingest what we have been told. Does light travel the same speed going the direction of earth's spin, and going against it? We measure its reflection and add it to its direction in a vacuum. Does light travel the same in a reflection?
When I confronted Science in the eighth grade, I walked away from it. I saw pictures disrupting my knowledge. I was young. I should have grabbed it by the horns and confronted it. When in English eleventh grade, our teacher used a poem to see what we would surmise. She said it was about God. I walked away. I should have made a statement and debated her views and the poem's words very closely.
"Fool On A Hill" may be about how someone that knows very little about God thinks, but their knowledge of the matter was all wrong. One of the greatest challenges in life is to know. We simply do not know by walking away, and we simply do not know without getting deeper into things This have I learned through experience. Walking away may give reason to doubt, but there is no doubt when we find our answers.
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