Help needed from INFJ's - an insight into INTJ - INFJ relationship

Rosaliya

Rosaliya

Newbie
MBTI
INTJ
Ok, so I'm an INTJ female and very recently fell hard for an INFJ male. It wasn't something I wanted, I didn't want a relationship at the moment and was completely shutting down my romantic/feelings radar. But we met accidentally by mutual friends and something happened instantly. I got interested, he was similar to me. I just knew I liked him from the same second we saw each other; and I have an intuitive feeling he liked me back. He literally lit up when he saw me (didn't know each other names at that time) and became interested in me. Talked only to me, even though there were other people he didn't know in the group and I wasn't the only female. We had some serious eye contact, the kind I never experienced before. I felt like I've known him my whole life while it was only a few minutes. Being rational as I am, I decided to ignore it as much as I could and just push it down. However, I wantedt o see him again, just to test this interesting situation. We connected on a deeper level very quickly, the more I found out about him, I felt like we were even more similar than my intuition was telling me. Over the past years that we didn't know each other we've liked the same films, for the same reasons, we both like to read people and are good at it, we both love same kinds of music and enjoy the same ideas, even those that I never shared with anyone. Well — from that moment, we spent every week socializing in the same group of friends but always on his or my intiative. Basically we manipulated the whole group just to have the two of us there without it being awkward.I know this and I know he knows this (we even talked about reading and manipulating people).

So where is the problem? He has a girlfriend. For three years. And he does care about her. But I feel like the stuff we felt and the intensity we felt is something that surpasses all of mine (and I hope his) relationships. I'm not trying to destroy his current position. And I'm not forcing anything, he just naturally feels drawn to me as I am to him. I wouldn't want anyone to break up because of me but I just believe that if two people should be together they will be, and vice versa. It's not anyone's fault when these things happen. I don't blame me for having genuine feelings for the first time in my life probably and I wouldn't blame him.

Since we started to hang out I noticed some markers that INFJ usually do and that shows he has interest in me, I would just love to hear your opinion on the subject:
1. He makes an effort to socialize more than he usuallly does (me too, lol)
2. He evolved his relationship with me very quickly, we know each other for a month but he's already coming over at my place, and despite being in a larger group at start, he narrowed it down to just one other friend and me. He's scared of being alone with me while he has a GF, I feel like that's it
3. He made me caramel when he first came over. Second time cookies. Third time he asked me to make cocktails together with him in the kitchen.
4. When other people made mess, he cleaned it up at my house and scolded them for being rude to me
5. Sits next to me. Always. Always makes it seem like it's accidental but we always end up sitting close or directly next to each other. That also includes subtle hand touching. He also loves to hug my plushie toys.
6. Hot and cold behaviour. Last time he was at my place, we made those cocktails, drank from the same glass, shared popcorns, touched indirectly by hands many times, it was all great and then it was like he realised what had happened and suddenly became a bit colder. Moved away. But then when he had to leave he didn't want to leave as in — he lingered — prolonged the time to get dressed, to finally say goodbye and all.
7. He opens up to me. Slowly, but more than to others. I already know some stuff about him that he didn't tell his best friend he had for 15 years.
8. Because I notice almost everything — I noticed he always freshly washes his hair when he meets me, always dresses up more than I feel he usually does. And he also complimented my outfits, perfume in a subtle matter.
9. He leaves stuff at my place accidentally and on purpose so he could come over again. We always plan the next meet when the current one ends.

Those are the positives. The negative could be the hot and cold behaviour and the fact that well — he has a girlfriend. Being loyal as INFJ usually are, I'm afraid that even if he felt something with me, he'll deny it to save what he has.
Also, he's ignoring me on social media, never likes anything I post but talks to me via messages. With web talk he is very hot and cold also.

Ok — so I'm just interested to see — is he really interested in a romantic way in me? I know he has some interested, but what kind?

Is it possible if he has a girlfriend that he just connected to me on a deeper level? How should I behave right now? I don't want to scare him away or be rude to his relationship. Do you guys (INFJ) act like this to friends you consider friends only?

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting. Although I feel it so strongly when we're together, felt it from the start. He even hugged me when he was leaving, which was awkward cause I don't do that often and neither did he with others or anyone that I saw.

And yes, we know each other for just one and a half month. It's intense and weird, but I personally enjoy this experience. All advices are welcome. And please don't judge because he has a girlfriend — I would never interfere if I didn't felt this strong connection and I guess he wouldn't come over to my place without her either if he didnt. Sorry for the extra long post.
 
If he has a girlfriend simply tell him if that ever changes you are interested. Give him a way to get in touch with you and then stay away.
If he makes an attempt to contact you while he still bas a girlfriend remind him that you are interested but that you feel it would be exceptionally awkward knowing how you feel to persue a friendship because you do not feel as if you can just shut whatever feelings you have off.
And then again, stay away.
 
I see you're also INTJ. You'll probably understand me when I say this - I can stay away without staying away; I've been trying to do so because of everything you just said, but at the same time it's like he's cracking into my rationality more than anyone ever. It's much harder for me to control this situation in the ways I usually am able to.

So are you advising I should talk to him about "us"? I feel that would scare him away. And I think he's even more interested in me because he's not sure of the way I feel (I've kept it hidden as much as possible).
 
[MENTION=14280]Rosaliya[/MENTION]

Does he ever speak about his relationship to you? Have you met his gf?
 
Having a girlfriend isn't like marriage - so he isn't cheating on her.

Perhaps he should break up with one before starting with another - which is what I think the coldness is about - the threshold of what he considers bf/gf.

If his existing relationship is generally positive, there is no reason in itself for him to break up - unless a far superior relationship presents itself. Dumping girlfriends "in case" there may be an even better compatibility out there seems contrary to reason. Nor does a limited amount of flirty friendship qualify as an incentive to end the existing relationship.


IMO I think he is treading cautiously, with some principles and is testing whether your friendship has the potential to become the principal significant relationship in his life. Precipitous decisions would seem to be out of character for him.
 
[MENTION=12327]Anywhere But Here[/MENTION] - Yes I have met her. She's quite annoying, not because she's his gf, but because she's overly extroverted for my taste, boring, clingy and overall someone I would probably hunt down and kill if it was legal, lol. Jk. But yes, I have met her and he does mention her sometimes when we talk, but not too much honestly, we only ever talked about their relationship once and that was when he was interested to see why my last relationship failed. And then he said that he often questions theirs because people break up often nowadays and so on...
 
[MENTION=862]Flavus Aquila[/MENTION] - agreed, he doesn't do things without carefully thinking about them first. That's why I feel like this whole thing happening between us is different on many levels for the both of us (happens fast). Like I said, I didn't event want a relationship until I met him and finally felt some connection, however stupid it may sound.

So as an INFJ male - what do you think, how should I proceed? I know I should be careful, but perhaps some more insight would be great.
 
Rosaliya said:
@Flavus Aquila - agreed, he doesn't do things without carefully thinking about them first. That's why I feel like this whole thing happening between us is different on many levels for the both of us (happens fast). Like I said, I didn't event want a relationship until I met him and finally felt some connection, however stupid it may sound.

So as an INFJ male - what do you think, how should I proceed? I know I should be careful, but perhaps some more insight would be great.
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For most things the ends determine the means - ie. you do certain variable things to achieve a particular goal.

In this case it would seem better to focus on right process, without pre-conceived ends. Ie. don't allow compromising means enter into the current relationship.

As in INFJ male, certain principles/boundaries in relationships are important - I am probably a little more old-school than many, but whatever your friend's boundaries/principles are, perhaps you should not only respect them - but even help him observe them in moments when he might be weak in holding them.

A friend, one who helps one grow in character (and isn't the occasion for the erosion of character), is very definitely serious relationship material.

I think if your friendship is mutually edifying the discussion about its end is (where it is heading) will emerge mutually. This might seem to go against the desire for closure/decision - but impatience doesn't make for a good/definite/certain decision in this area.
 
Rosaliya said:
[MENTION=12327]Anywhere But Here[/MENTION] - Yes I have met her. She's quite annoying, not because she's his gf, but because she's overly extroverted for my taste, boring, clingy and overall someone I would probably hunt down and kill if it was legal, lol. Jk. But yes, I have met her and he does mention her sometimes when we talk, but not too much honestly, we only ever talked about their relationship once and that was when he was interested to see why my last relationship failed. And then he said that he often questions theirs because people break up often nowadays and so on...
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You're not kidding. ;)

As annoying as she sounds, there must be something special about her that he enjoys since they have been together for 3 yrs. I would suggest carrying along with the friendship but stepping back slightly (spend less time together, make yourself unavailable...) that way, it might spark him into realizing how much he really enjoys being with you over anyone else. If he's in a relationship that works for him (even though she is annoying to you) then he probably won't leave it unless he feels that it is the right thing to do. If you pull back and he realizes "damn! I really miss being around her!" Then that may make him see how into you he really is. He may feel guilty and have to do something about it.

But I wouldn't talk to him about it. He needs to figure this out on his own. And you seem to like him enough to wait for him to come to a conclusion.

And f.t.r., if he were to make a move on you while still with her, it would be cheating. To cheat is to act dishonestly. While it would appear that he was being honest with himself by going after you, he would also be acting dishonestly towards her by breaking his word. They may not be married, but when you make an agreement to do something and that agreement is broken, it is dishonest ('cheating' in this instance).
 
Rosaliya said:
I see you're also INTJ. You'll probably understand me when I say this - I can stay away without staying away; I've been trying to do so because of everything you just said, but at the same time it's like he's cracking into my rationality more than anyone ever. It's much harder for me to control this situation in the ways I usually am able to.

So are you advising I should talk to him about "us"? I feel that would scare him away. And I think he's even more interested in me because he's not sure of the way I feel (I've kept it hidden as much as possible).
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Yep. Been there done that. I once met a woman who I asked out She told me she had a boyfriend and I said oh ok well if that ever changes let me know. And then she decided to tell me sexual jokes, read me poems she wrote about me...

So its not like my suggestion is a closed ended loop.

You could potentially convince him he would rather be with you than her but... is that the type of guy you really want to end up with? Whats to say that down the road he doesnt drop you for someone else with that same mindset?
 
[MENTION=862]Flavus Aquila[/MENTION] your advice makes sense. I think for someone who is looking for serious connection (such as he is, as I managed to find out by now), it's better to think long-term strategically than to rush anything now. So, just a friend for now.

However, it's hard to be patient when these things happen rare in life. I'm also afraid that he will somehow see through my intentions and sabotage our whole relationship, but I'm trying to remain neutral as much as possible right now by hanging out with all of his friends, but by also being there for him if he wants it.

So, apart from that, how do you think I should get closer to him (connect on a deeper emotional level without crossing the line)? How would someone get close to you and earn your trust?
 
[MENTION=12327]Anywhere But Here[/MENTION] I don't think he will start missing me if I disappear...maybe a little, but it will pass soon as he only knows me for a short period of time. I haven't had the chance to get under his skin yet,not as much as I would like for him to become emotionally "dependent" on me. Perhaps he already is, I don't know, but I believe I should be available, but with a slight distance, at least for now. We can play the hot and cold game once he's fully into me.

And yes I was not kidding :)

I don't want him to cheat at all, I wouldn't find him interesting (at least long term wise) if he did that. This whole thing is much too special for me to let it go ruined, so in some twisted way, I'm even glad he has a girlfriend, at least I get to know him better without rushing into anything...
 
[MENTION=8603]Eventhorizon[/MENTION] I wouldn't mind that - if he dropped me for someone else he liked better. I ended my previous relationship when I realized that my boyfriend likes another girl, even before he realized he liked her that much and they've been together for a year now. I'm not interested in those who are not interested in me, so that's not a problem really. And I also believe that we all have the right to find that "certain someone" and also make mistakes while doing that along the way. Even though I believe we're more similar than his girlfriend and him are at the moment, at any point in life, he can find someone who is even a better fit, same as me. It's really not that complicated, people just tend to make it complex by holding onto something for the sake of being in their comfort zone (I guess).
 
The fact that your friend has dropped a comment about him questioning his relationship seems significant. When I was in a relationship, I would never have mentioned questioning it if I was talking to any of my other friends who were girls. It sounds like a subtle hint that he's not fully committed to staying in his current relationship, even if he hasn't left it yet.

INFJs place a lot of value on the "connection" in a relationship. It's entirely possible that he doesn't experience that with his current girlfriend, and he's probably torn over whether he should be loyal to her (loyalty is very important to us), or go for a relationship that promises to have a better "connection". What choice he makes will depend on how much he is committed to his current relationship, and how much value he sees in a potential relationship with you.

I am not judging you for having feelings for someone who's already in a relationship. I will suggest, though, respect his relationship (which it sounds like you are already doing). Don't push the boundaries too fast, or he might take that as a sign of forwardness and bail out. Consistency is important and speaks volumes to an INFJ. If he's already questioning his current relationship, and you show yourself to be a trustworthy friend who respects his boundaries but is always there for him, there's a good chance he will be interested in you. (This was almost exactly my experience a few years ago. The relationship ended two years later, but it was for other reasons.)
 
Rosaliya said:
[MENTION=8603]Eventhorizon[/MENTION] I wouldn't mind that - if he dropped me for someone else he liked better. I ended my previous relationship when I realized that my boyfriend likes another girl, even before he realized he liked her that much and they've been together for a year now. I'm not interested in those who are not interested in me, so that's not a problem really. And I also believe that we all have the right to find that "certain someone" and also make mistakes while doing that along the way. Even though I believe we're more similar than his girlfriend and him are at the moment, at any point in life, he can find someone who is even a better fit, same as me. It's really not that complicated, people just tend to make it complex by holding onto something for the sake of being in their comfort zone (I guess).
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I think I understand your way of thinking as an intj. So few people come into your life that spark your interest as "relationship" material that when one does you have to ask a few questions if yourself and the cosmos. What if you never meet another person that sparks your interest. Shouldn't you pursue the person on the idea that you may never meet another like that. Dossnt everyone have a right not to be lonely and if he leaves her for you, doesnt that show he wasn't the right person for her anyway. If there was only one fact here, the possibility that you dont have to be lonely if even for a short amount of time makes everything else secondary.

To this I cant say anything. I certainly have nothing to judge. I will say only that I have been in this position more than I would like. The women that spark my interest have almost always been in a relationship already. Strange things have happened to me regarding those of them I have pursued. Generally I avoid this these days primarily because fewer and fewer women spark my interest regarding a possible long term relationship. But also because I had found that I was never able to forgive myself for taking her away from who she has been with when things fell apart. I trie to tell myself she was as to blame. It wasnt my fault because she could not have been serious about the guy if she left him so easily for me etc... The chance that she might have lived a happier life never having known me well... I just have not done anything like that for decades.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck.

The other side of it is that she may actually not be the right person for him. Sometimes people get into relationships just because they dont see anything better in the future. Stepping past potential love and settling to just not be completely lonely. Id just say dont push it but let him come to you. Maybe thats best.
 
Rosaliya said:
@Flavus Aquila your advice makes sense. I think for someone who is looking for serious connection (such as he is, as I managed to find out by now), it's better to think long-term strategically than to rush anything now. So, just a friend for now.

However, it's hard to be patient when these things happen rare in life. I'm also afraid that he will somehow see through my intentions and sabotage our whole relationship, but I'm trying to remain neutral as much as possible right now by hanging out with all of his friends, but by also being there for him if he wants it.

So, apart from that, how do you think I should get closer to him (connect on a deeper emotional level without crossing the line)? How would someone get close to you and earn your trust?
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I think honesty is the best policy. INFJs are generally very good at detecting deception in the subjective cues given off by others - like a somewhat subconscious lie-detector (breathing patterns, eye dilation, etc. ). Even if the deception is for good intentions, what is detected is deception, which does not dispose well for trust.

I think you could explicitly discuss the dilemma of feeling affection for him; AND not wanting to disrespect the fact that he already has affectionate ties with someone else. Avoid any implicit sense that the situation has reached some sort of ultimatum, where platonic friendship is no longer an option for you - just that you're having these feelings and that you and he may have to be careful, so that you don't end up in an emotionally difficult situation. That's my thoughts on the matter. Someone who is mature enough to be honest, and mature enough to manage her expectations/needs, so as to avoid putting others in dilemma, or compromise, is someone you can trust and confide in. (Which are the foundations for a real relationship).
 
Flavus Aquila said:
I think you could explicitly discuss the dilemma of feeling affection for him; AND not wanting to disrespect the fact that he already has affectionate ties with someone else. Avoid any implicit sense that the situation has reached some sort of ultimatum, where platonic friendship is no longer an option for you - just that you're having these feelings and that you and he may have to be careful, so that you don't end up in an emotionally difficult situation.
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In theory, I second this wholeheartedly. There have been various situations in my life (I'm in one right now, in fact) where I've wished that I could have a similarly open discussion with the person about where we stood. In practice, I've never actually done it this way, because my fear is that if I admitted to them that I was even slightly attracted to them (which is a big deal to me, I'm very secretive about who I like), would I be able to move past that, even if we agreed that it was best for it not to go anywhere? Perhaps if the other party initiated it I would be more comfortable with it.
 
[MENTION=14220]courteouskitten[/MENTION] thank you for this insight. You're saying you had a similar experience a few years ago? Care to elaborate more on that, how did the process go? The two of you getting closer together? You can pm me if you don't wish for everyone to read it.

As far as the connection goes, I know we have it, it's just hard to express it in full without being too obvious or scaring the person away.
 
[MENTION=8603]Eventhorizon[/MENTION] I wouldn't like to think of myself as the person who manages to "steal" someone away from their true happiness...surely if he is happy, he will remain where he is, if he's as smart as I imagine..if he isn't, then well I doubt I will have any interest for him furthermore. However this unravels, I'm sure he's an adult in the same way that I am and hopefully he can see what each choice brings him. :) Eventhorizon, you didn't take the girl you're talking about "away". She chose to walk with you, as much as you did with her. Otherwise it's just babysitting all the time, isn't it? ;)
 
[MENTION=862]Flavus Aquila[/MENTION] but it still gives us the benefit of the doubt, doesn't it? If I just talked to him about it, the cards would all be on the table and he would have the pressure of there being a friend who is not just a friend. Perhaps he would feel like he needs to reciprocate, but knowing he can't at the moment, it would feel burdening and make him run. I think he would definitely stay away in such case and that would ruin any chances of us connecting on a deeper level.

But if I notice that the time is right, I will try to talk to him about in in some form or the other, perhaps even through other possible scenarios, to see where his head is at. I know you have that "lie detector" thing going on so I'm hoping he won't take my current position as deception; but rather fear of bad timing.

Thank you for your advice. :)
 
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