He confuses me - an INFJ guy, HELP!
- Thread starter SillyGoose
- Start date
Well i noticed he changes opinions of what he feels a lot. This is the thing I dislike about him a lot. If you read avout his previous relationships - he ended confused about who he loves and who he doesnt love, and when he was telling me that story (how he quit his "rebound" relationship because it would be long distance relationship) I immediately knew he wasnt into her enough, but he claimed he was but the diatance is the "only" problem (coming from a guy who says he would be with blind person if he loves her, so distance (250 miles) definately isnt a reason to break up) and i told him he obviously didnt love her... Only for him to take 3 months to come to the same conclusion.
This is only one example how it takes a lot time for him to figure what he feels. Is this usually hard for INFJs because of low Fi?
Anyway, I will just take this "I am in love with you" as "I like you very much"
This is only one example how it takes a lot time for him to figure what he feels. Is this usually hard for INFJs because of low Fi?
Anyway, I will just take this "I am in love with you" as "I like you very much"
A very good possibility, INFJs I have known and interacted with have a hard time pegging down how they feel about things often, we know how we are "supposed" to feel, but internally there isn't a ton of feeling happening. I would say the nature of Ni (which alone is cold and detached like watching TV) followed up with Fe as a judgement function makes us spend more time thinking about everyone elses feelings, and then the Ti and Se in reserve which doesnt really lend itself to anything useful in terms of knowing ourselves. Many nights I can lay in bed with someone I love and not feel anything but that unending calm, the long straight road, familiar and bereft of surprises, but when I analyze the situation I know I love her even if I dont FEEL the love bubbling up... honestly those feelings don't occur often and when they do they are usually attached to physical intimacy of some type. I love with my actions, not my heart apparently.
You sound completely like him, Billy. The way you express yourself and even your facial expression and eyes (avatar).
That happens a lot with me too. I can write about stuff, but expressing feelings in front of a person is inefficient at best and horribly awkward at it's worst. It frustrates my girlfriend when she asks what I'm thinking (but I thinks she really means what I'm feeling) and I tend to reply with "not much" which is honestly true, but doesn't sound true. I tend to think and feel that most of my responses are just "surface" replies...like what Billy mentioned about "supposed" to feel but really not feeling it.
For myself, I do have a few emotional trigger points that do come up both in a positive and negative way. Perhaps over time, you'll come to figure out what some of those points are with him.
+1 on this.
On the original topic..
Geez. He seems to be conflicted, yes. More like, "I'm interested but should I be interested? *cue endless train of thinking*"
Frankly speaking, what does he interested in, is another thing I'm wondering. Is it actual love (as in, you), or is it the idea of love? I'm not saying he's in for sex; but he might have a slightly imbalanced preference for sex as an expression of love.
I think he jumped with "i am in with love you" , yes. Well, confusion. I think he likes me genuinely but doesnt wanna relationship just lik that so he is torned in all that but still doesnt wanna lose me. And i dont understand why you mention sex, when we were talking in the beginning in completely friendly/strangers vibe he told me he is totally feminine about sex and not interested in sex without intimacy - but still can miss both, so yeah ... Obviously prone to ilusion
What i think its the best to do in this situation is to be sane one here, go very slow and let him figure out what is real, even if he changes his story 5 times, i will not take what he says as absolute truthz.
He clearly cant be in love with me after knowing me not so well online, but that doesnt mean that after dating for long it wont become real, though his mess is intimidating.
What should I do?:/
I am prone to getting the best out of people, so I already see tons of things what he can change about himself for the better - I noticed he goes along with other peoples wishes and think those are his own wishes, like he kissed back his friend but didnt really like her in that way, like he agreed to open relationship and convinced himself that means nohing, <- not saying he is not responsible, just that he is prone to taking other peoples agenda. Its an Enneagram 9 thing.
I dont want it to happen here, this is why I will be cautious to not be too demanding so he can act out of true feelings/desire not like i want him to act.(I'd rather be turned down than be with someone who is with me for wrong reasons).
Messy, messy.
What you said here really stuck out to me because in the past I've gone into a relationship seeing a lot of room for improvement in the other person and ending up incredibly disappointed when change just didn't happen. I don't mean to say that you have that same intention (it's perfectly natural to notice things the other person could change about him or herself) but I think the problem arises when you expect that the other person will change. Again, not saying that you are doing this, but just be careful that you don't enter a relationship thinking, "I'll be the one who helps him change and be everything he can be." Because disappointment will most likely be the result of that sort of mindset.
Yes, I know. This is why I dont give him much advices, and just will leave him to see for himself. Basically, his indecisiveness and not being very aware of his feelings, passivity, is only thing I think he should change, which is a lot, but I like him from start very much, this is not that annoying. He is still the person I like the most out of all I know, I mean, his negative sides.
He is not very ambitious about improving himself, he is happy as who he is and says "well i am insecure in the beginning of relationships, but after it disappears so I dont mind it." Whish is somehow weird to me because I am obsessed with changing myself for the better.
Maybe he isnt as helpless as he seems, maybe he is confused but eventually figures what he wants. At least he said it was like this in his previous relationships, what I am saying; according to what I know about him, he doesnt seem as selfless as he is right now. He is even a bit too selfish.
He sounds unstable.
It has nothing to do with his mbti type or enneagram type.
Relationships with people who feel they have very little self-worth always turn out to be full of manipulation... Love is about enjoying other people!
Don't date a guy who tells you you're too good for him. If a person can't respect themselves, they can't truly respect other people. Someone who feels that low about themselves is going to expect their partner to fulfill their list of demands to keep them happy. You'll never make him happy because he doesn't even know what will make him happy and he's not capable of making himself happy.
That is where the manipulation comes in. And as far as I can tell, he's already got you manipulated. Look at how concerned you are trying to figure out his feelings and his wants. What's he giving you--except the run around? He says you expect too much, and then he disappears then he reappears and tells you he loves you and you're too good for him. That is so messed up!
The begining of a relationship/budding romance is supposed to be fun, not messed up and confusing.
You should move on.
Meet someone who knows who they are and what they want and who has their shit together.
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acd, I'd usually agree with you - but you say "he is incapable of making himself happy" and already here you are wrong and are jumping on conclusions - he IS happy person, I assure you, I dont even know someone as happy as he is. His previous relationship was also very happy until shitty ending.
I dont like either what he said that I am out of his league, but I dont think being insecure in the beginning is that uncommon. He thinks I am much more pretty and intelligent than he is, there are some objective reasons to think so, but it is still stupid way to think, but I cant say I dont understand his insecurity. He only said them out loud, most of us keep them for urselves.
I agree he didnt give me much, and I will not tolerate it of course, but since he sent me that "i love you email" he opened completely towards me and is very good to me.
About finding someone else - I have specific taste in men; shy, introverted, a bit feminine, very good looking, intelligent, happy, emotional, good with people etc - I really dont fall for many men. And more important, I still like this one.
I will give him a chance, I think he is unstable about some things but this thread made him look like unhappy person but he is exactly opposite - one of the most happy people I know. I think the reason for his insecurity is because he said few times "women are attracted usually to alpha males which i am not" - isnt he right on this one? Women truly like dominant and T men.
And very important thing ive learned about Introverted men is that
Self-worth and self-esteem is VERY DIFFERENT thing. He has very high self worth, but low self esteem about approaching women etc.
Before he admitted about being in love I clearly said to him that I will not tolerate anymore not getting anything from him etc
I dont like either what he said that I am out of his league, but I dont think being insecure in the beginning is that uncommon. He thinks I am much more pretty and intelligent than he is, there are some objective reasons to think so, but it is still stupid way to think, but I cant say I dont understand his insecurity. He only said them out loud, most of us keep them for urselves.
I agree he didnt give me much, and I will not tolerate it of course, but since he sent me that "i love you email" he opened completely towards me and is very good to me.
About finding someone else - I have specific taste in men; shy, introverted, a bit feminine, very good looking, intelligent, happy, emotional, good with people etc - I really dont fall for many men. And more important, I still like this one.
I will give him a chance, I think he is unstable about some things but this thread made him look like unhappy person but he is exactly opposite - one of the most happy people I know. I think the reason for his insecurity is because he said few times "women are attracted usually to alpha males which i am not" - isnt he right on this one? Women truly like dominant and T men.
And very important thing ive learned about Introverted men is that
Self-worth and self-esteem is VERY DIFFERENT thing. He has very high self worth, but low self esteem about approaching women etc.
Before he admitted about being in love I clearly said to him that I will not tolerate anymore not getting anything from him etc
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If this was true, I'd be single again. ^^
I don't think a guy has to be dominant to be attractive to women. I'd agree with acd's comment about someone "who has their shit together" instead. I think as long as the guy is confident (but not necessarily boastful), it can definitely add to the appeal in a woman. At one point in my life, I had a number of girls in the club I was in like me, even though I wouldn't consider myself as dominant or an alpha-male by any means. I just did what needed to be done for the most part.
Just wanted to make that distinction. I sometimes lean towards "self-acceptance" myself. ^^
Most women are attracted to alpha males - thats what he said. I think thats true. I dont think he really means I am too good for him, maybe occassionally he thought that, so did I (that he is too good for me. But only as passing thought and as motivation to be better, so dont think its bad).
He told me his friend told him a few days ago "you are the only gayish man I know that has women.. Very good women" - so not like he doesnt. As I said, I agree with general advices, but in a way I also like how modest he is. Self-confidence is overrated sometimes. Meaning, why would it be unnatural for a guy to be afraid to approach woman? I think it is normal if in limits. Only fools are completely confident in love and sex - I read it somewhere and I agree.
He told me his friend told him a few days ago "you are the only gayish man I know that has women.. Very good women" - so not like he doesnt. As I said, I agree with general advices, but in a way I also like how modest he is. Self-confidence is overrated sometimes. Meaning, why would it be unnatural for a guy to be afraid to approach woman? I think it is normal if in limits. Only fools are completely confident in love and sex - I read it somewhere and I agree.
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I will add to this in a bit of personal experience. It has taken me months to actually realize I like a person even though I give them all the signs. I'm the last person to know when I have a crush on someone.
A happy person doesn't feel so inferior about themselves.
There's a difference between jitters and feeling undeserving. He should be proud to be interacting with you if he thinks you are beautiful and intelligent etc...Personally, I'd rather have someone celebrate my better qualities than lament them because they feel lowly. But that's me.
Look.
You asked for people's advice.. and as far as I can tell, you've set this thread up to defend him....
Just date him then and find out for yourself.
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He said in the same mail where he said he is insecure that I will not like him "i will be proud to have you for my gf" too.
You are right about me defending him.
You are right about me defending him.