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Gunmen in the News- Theories

say what

say what

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Jan 8, 2014
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say what said:
Within less than a week, there have been 4 stories about gunmen, 3 with fatalities.

Moncton, NB, Canada: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...2_wounded_in_moncton_gunman_on_the_loose.html
Halifax, NS, Canada: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...port_of_gunman_three_buildings_evacuated.html
Las Vegas, USA: http://www.businessinsider.com/two-...der-killed-in-las-vegas-shooting-spree-2014-6
Seattle, USA: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...g-college-student-disarms-Seattle-gunman.html

What is going on?
Click to expand...

Well…several things.
Firstly one has to ask “what in our society is creating these people?” and indeed mass killings are not just happening in America…we see suicide bombers, etc. etc. in other parts of the world…the difference here is our access to guns and the US society taking two stances - one group believes that any sort of restriction will lead to the inevitable revoking of any and all rights to own a gun, while maintaining that we are safer by allowing citizens to own them and carry them to protect themselves and others from the criminals with guns. Which is sort of self-defeating (and I’m sure I’ll get people disagreeing with me on this), whereas you allow everyone to have access to guns criminals, law-abiding citizens, and the need for owning a gun would be reduced by not allowing criminals access.
And on the other hand you have liberal groups who run the gambit from responsible background checks all the way to making guns illegal to own at all.
Of course, they are all grouped into the “making guns illegal” group by association.
Common sense would tell us that we need to have some responsible checks in place, both criminal background and mental health background.
I hate it when people say things like - “well, if he didn’t have a gun, he would just use a knife.” Yes…that is probably true, but it’s much harder to kill en mass with a knife than it is with a shotgun and semi-automatic AR-15, etc.
"Oh, but that will put all the gun owners on a list to be tracked"….so fucking what? Don’t commit any crimes with your gun then.
The American public is being manipulated by the gun lobby and they are falling for it hook, line, and sinker.
No one has introduced any bill with anything in it even close to trying to disarm America.
Be responsible.
This comic makes the point far better than I ever could….lol. -

10449942_702917809775986_3865430850043457591_n.jpg
 
Skarekrow said:
Well…several things.
Firstly one has to ask “what in our society is creating these people?” and indeed mass killings are not just happening in America…we see suicide bombers, etc. etc. in other parts of the world…the difference here is our access to guns and the US society taking two stances - one group believes that any sort of restriction will lead to the inevitable revoking of any and all rights to own a gun, while maintaining that we are safer by allowing citizens to own them and carry them to protect themselves and others from the criminals with guns. Which is sort of self-defeating (and I’m sure I’ll get people disagreeing with me on this), whereas you allow everyone to have access to guns criminals, law-abiding citizens, and the need for owning a gun would be reduced by not allowing criminals access.
And on the other hand you have liberal groups who run the gambit from responsible background checks all the way to making guns illegal to own at all.
Of course, they are all grouped into the “making guns illegal” group by association.
Common sense would tell us that we need to have some responsible checks in place, both criminal background and mental health background.
I hate it when people say things like - “well, if he didn’t have a gun, he would just use a knife.” Yes…that is probably true, but it’s much harder to kill en mass with a knife than it is with a shotgun and semi-automatic AR-15, etc.
"Oh, but that will put all the gun owners on a list to be tracked"….so fucking what? Don’t commit any crimes with your gun then.
The American public is being manipulated by the gun lobby and they are falling for it hook, line, and sinker.
No one has introduced any bill with anything in it even close to trying to disarm America.
Be responsible.
This comic makes the point far better than I ever could….lol. -

10449942_702917809775986_3865430850043457591_n.jpg
Click to expand...



I do agree that there's many mass killings around the world...which is sad.

It's interesting because there is so much in the states around gun laws - however, in Canada it's extremely strict! I have never seen or held a gun! I don't even think I would know what one sounded like! I've always felt very disconnected from these types of things, because guns just aren't a thing here. Except now that there's been two incidents in my area within a week, I'm just shocked and wondering if there's going to be more! Is it because of guns? Is it mental health? Is it resistance against the government?
 
say what said:
Within less than a week, there have been 4 stories about gunmen, 3 with fatalities.

Moncton, NB, Canada: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...2_wounded_in_moncton_gunman_on_the_loose.html
Halifax, NS, Canada: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...port_of_gunman_three_buildings_evacuated.html
Las Vegas, USA: http://www.businessinsider.com/two-...der-killed-in-las-vegas-shooting-spree-2014-6
Seattle, USA: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...g-college-student-disarms-Seattle-gunman.html

What is going on?
Click to expand...


What is going on is 4 people out of 6 billion lost their minds perhaps never having had one in the first place. I know what I am about to say seems heartless but, 6 BILLION people and if 20 people die of those 6 BILLION what is the meaning? The estimate is that 150,000 people die everyday in the world.

The news loves sensationalism and one of the things that drives it is fear. Nothing scarier than that of a single person being able to affect multiple peoples lives.
 
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If he didn't have a gun, he would use a car. [MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION]

The point being, a sick person will use whatever means he has to inflict pain and damage. Perhaps instead of a gun the person chooses to poison people.

Ill leave you with this.

If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns. Guns dont kill people, people kill people.
 
Eventhorizon said:
What is going on is 4 people out of 6 billion lost their minds perhaps never having had one in the first place. I know what I am about to say seems heartless but, 6 BILLION people and if 20 people die of those 6 BILLION what is the meaning? The estimate is that 150,000 people die everyday in the world.

The news loves sensationalism and one of the things that drives it is fear. Nothing scarier than that of a single person being able to affects multiple peoples lives.
Click to expand...

True. Perhaps I've always been sheltered from it...it just seems like there's so much random acts of violence- but perhaps it's always been there.
 
say what said:
True. Perhaps I've always been sheltered from it...it just seems like there's so much random acts of violence- but perhaps it's always been there.
Click to expand...
More people in the world, less space. I dont think humans have ever been in a situation where so many live so close together. I question if the human mind is changing to accommodate this or if its struggling to cope.
 
say what said:
I do agree that there's many mass killings around the world...which is sad.

It's interesting because there is so much in the states around gun laws - however, in Canada it's extremely strict! I have never seen or held a gun! I don't even think I would know what one sounded like! I've always felt very disconnected from these types of things, because guns just aren't a thing here. Except now that there's been two incidents in my area within a week, I'm just shocked and wondering if there's going to be more! Is it because of guns? Is it mental health? Is it resistance against the government?
Click to expand...
Well, I do think that a HUGE part of it is access to mental health services…which is severely lacking here in the US…I cannot speak for Canada. Up until recently when the ACA passed it was not even a generally covered medical insurance service! Of course now that it is mandated that does not mean that we have access still…like my little autistic, ADHD, OCD, ODD nephew…he has insurance…and mental health is covered for him….but in the last 3 years of my brother trying to get help for him…he has been on two waiting lists each for a year….and people rant and rave the Obamacare will make these types waiting lists worse…maybe it will in some respects…but in others, like mental health…I believe now that these things are mandated to be covered, and because it was severely lacking earlier…that it will actually grow and improve because demand will rise. *fingers crossed anyhow*
There is still a huge stigma attached to mental health here too…that is the other part of the problem…people do not seek out help because society looks down upon them for needing help…which is so incredibly sad IMO.
Hopefully, given that this field should grow…that will improve as well.
Thirdly…it would be very nice to see our government, spend a bit (or a lot) less on war and the military, and bullshit like the NSA spying on us and our allies…and take that chunk of money and put it toward something worthwhile like mental health services and research. We have soldiers who come home from being at war…who are changed men…PTSD…a HUGE problem for us…and there is a HUGE suicide problem among the sufferers too…even these men get treated like shit…i.e. the recent news concerning the VA Hospitals…THAT is how our society views and deals with mental health…it’s stigmatized and swept under the rug.
Help to change that…and these mass shootings will vanish.
 
I like that story about the pepper spray student taking care of that shotgun guy, in the UK shotgun guy would have injured or killed far more people because pepper spray is illegal.
 
Eventhorizon said:
If he didn't have a gun, he would use a car. @Skarekrow

The point being, a sick person will use whatever means he has to inflict pain and damage. Perhaps instead of a gun the person chooses to poison people.

Ill leave you with this.

If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns. Guns dont kill people, people kill people.
Click to expand...
I said I am NOT against owning guns…but why the fuck shouldn’t we have background checks and balances? It will not keep guns out of the hands of crazies and criminals…but it WILL make it harder for them to get them…and why wouldn’t common sense dictate that?
So you have to wait a couple of days to get your gun….oh well…maybe that is enough time to "cool down” from when you were ready to kill your wife?
People will continue to be violent…I am not saying that isn’t true.
But why shouldn’t we check people? Hopefully, at least a few crazies and thugs will be caught and prevented from purchasing the means to needless deaths.
 
Lark said:
I like that story about the pepper spray student taking care of that shotgun guy, in the UK shotgun guy would have injured or killed far more people because pepper spray is illegal.
Click to expand...

It's illegal here, too!

It does make me think about what I would do in a situation like that - [MENTION=8603]Eventhorizon[/MENTION] was nice enough to get me to think about how I would handle it.
 
Skarekrow said:
I said I am NOT against owning guns…but why the fuck shouldn’t we have background checks and balances? It will not keep guns out of the hands of crazies and criminals…but it WILL make it harder for them to get them…and why wouldn’t common sense dictate that?
So you have to wait a couple of days to get your gun….oh well…maybe that is enough time to "cool down” from when you were ready to kill your wife?
People will continue to be violent…I am not saying that isn’t true.
But why shouldn’t we check people? Hopefully, at least a few crazies and thugs will be caught and prevented from purchasing the means to needless deaths.
Click to expand...

I do agree that there needs to be more regulation in place- especially in the states. It shocks me to think that you can buy that stuff in Walmart in some places! :O
At the same time, i do agree that if it's not guns, it might be something else.

I guess the question is why are people resorting to such meaningless violence? Or have we always been like that?
 
say what said:
It's illegal here, too!

It does make me think about what I would do in a situation like that - @Eventhorizon was nice enough to get me to think about how I would handle it.
Click to expand...

I dont know what I would do but I would hope that I'd take every opportunity to defend myself and others.

Unprovoked aggression should mean that its open season.
 
Skarekrow said:
I said I am NOT against owning guns…but why the fuck shouldn’t we have background checks and balances? It will not keep guns out of the hands of crazies and criminals…but it WILL make it harder for them to get them…and why wouldn’t common sense dictate that?
So you have to wait a couple of days to get your gun….oh well…maybe that is enough time to "cool down” from when you were ready to kill your wife?
People will continue to be violent…I am not saying that isn’t true.
But why shouldn’t we check people? Hopefully, at least a few crazies and thugs will be caught and prevented from purchasing the means to needless deaths.
Click to expand...

Where do I say we shouldn't here?

Being an advocate for freedom and the right of a person to own firearms here in the US. I see why the NRA fights against all forums of gun control. If you allow an inch, they take a mile. Also what level of mental health justifies not allowing someone the ability to own a weapon? Since patients records are confidential, would it help anyway?

I see both sides of this. In the end though I think it simply comes down to society and the fact that in a world full of this many people, some go bad and theres little we can actually do about it.
 
Lark said:
I dont know what I would do but I would hope that I'd take every opportunity to defend myself and others.

Unprovoked aggression should mean that its open season.
Click to expand...

I agree but imagine. A movie theater, a gunman and everyone has a gun with them. When the police show up they dont know who the initial gun man was... Bullets are flying everywhere, no one knows who started it first.
 
Eventhorizon said:
Where do I say we shouldn't here?

Being an advocate for freedom and the right of a person to own firearms here in the US. I see why the NRA fights against all forums of gun control. If you allow an inch, they take a mile. Also what level of mental health justifies not allowing someone the ability to own a weapon? Since patients records are confidential, would it help anyway?

I see both sides of this. In the end though I think it simply comes down to society and the fact that in a world full of this many people, some go bad and theres little we can actually do about it.
Click to expand...

I think the US is strange.

A place in which they want to outlaw religion, especially in schools and consider it brain washing but want the mentally ill or unstable to possess firearms?

I was skeptical about what libertarians and other radical capitalists said about public schools in the US until I started to encounter opinions like this.
 
Eventhorizon said:
I agree but imagine. A movie theater, a gunman and everyone has a gun with them. When the police show up they dont know who the initial gun man was... Bullets are flying everywhere, no one knows who started it first.
Click to expand...

Yeah people always imagine the worst case scenario.
 
Lark said:
I think the US is strange.

A place in which they want to outlaw religion, especially in schools and consider it brain washing but want the mentally ill or unstable to possess firearms?

I was skeptical about what libertarians and other radical capitalists said about public schools in the US until I started to encounter opinions like this.
Click to expand...

I think mass religion as a whole especially in regard to what is being taught to children is highly damaging. As a minimum it teaches intolerance for other religions and subsequently people themselves.

The gun argument hardly seems related. Apples and Oranges really.
 
Eventhorizon said:
If he didn't have a gun, he would use a car. @Skarekrow

The point being, a sick person will use whatever means he has to inflict pain and damage. Perhaps instead of a gun the person chooses to poison people.

Ill leave you with this.

If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns. Guns dont kill people, people kill people.
Click to expand...

Not to disagree, but... well, actually... yes... to disagree. Guns make it too easy to kill people. It's like seeing two identical cars parked on a city street - one with doors locked and keys on the owner, and the other unlocked with keys in the ignition. Which do you think will be stolen first? Unstable, sociopathic, psychotic people will find the easiest means at their disposal to act on their desires. Why on Earth would you want to make it easy on them to play their delusions out with a gun?!
 
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