Grit - The key to success?

[say what]

I went to a talk yesterday on content-free learning, and they talked about this idea of "grit".

I thought it was really interesting, and from my own experience- very true.

[video=youtube;H14bBuluwB8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H14bBuluwB8[/video]

I'd be interested in knowing what you guys think about grit!


As a grad student, we often have 'imposter' syndrome, where we think we're not smart enough to be where we are (see my blog!)....but grit suggests that there is something beyond intelligence that makes someone successful. What do you guys think? Do you think this is something innate? Or can it be fostered in individuals? Should grit be something we begin to incorporate into curriculum and education?

 

[Gaze]

Yeah, attitude matters.

 

[say what]

Interesting. I took it a bit differently- but I see your point.

I saw it as - just because you're smart, doesn't mean you'll succeed. As well as, just because you're not the smartest- doesn't mean you won't succeed. Also, there are many individual cases where, given the odds of being disadvantaged, lack of resources, accessibility issues, etc. - people have succeeded because of their will to succeed. I see grit as an overarching definition for things like 'motivation', 'resiliency', and 'perseverance'. I don't see grit and success as being a causal relationship- more correlational....as your grit increases, your opportunity to succeed does as well...but this is just a simple statement, and disregards a variety of external factors that contribute to ones success.

Interesting that you bring up that it starts at home...there's cases where children have succeeded despite their home environment...it's almost like grit is an innate skill, but perhaps it's also someone can learn.

I think the culture around education has often been that you can't fail- failing is bad...but the reality is, often in life you do fail- but it's the people that accept it, pick themselves back up, and continue forward that succeed.

 

[Gaze]

Perhaps, my response was a bit harsh.

 

[say what]

Perhaps, my response was a bit harsh.

Hehehe! I think it's an interesting concept! I do agree with you as well (with some of the points you made!)

I do think she makes it a bit more 'simple' than it really is...I mean, can you objectively measure such a complex and subjective construct? How do you actually define 'grit'? And where is that definition originating from? Who defined it?

I'm on the fence with it- and go back and forth! But I think there's value in it! She reminds me of Ken Robinson a bit (love.of.my.life.) .... he makes many claims on creativity...but it's hard to imagine them in practice.

 

[DonTaushMe]

Interesting. I took it a bit differently- but I see your point.

I saw it as - just because you're smart, doesn't mean you'll succeed. As well as, just because you're not the smartest- doesn't mean you won't succeed. Also, there are many individual cases where, given the odds of being disadvantaged, lack of resources, accessibility issues, etc. - people have succeeded because of their will to succeed. I see grit as an overarching definition for things like 'motivation', 'resiliency', and 'perseverance'. I don't see grit and success as being a causal relationship- more correlational....as your grit increases, your opportunity to succeed does as well...but this is just a simple statement, and disregards a variety of external factors that contribute to ones success.

Interesting that you bring up that it starts at home...there's cases where children have succeeded despite their home environment...it's almost like grit is an innate skill, but perhaps it's also someone can learn.

I think the culture around education has often been that you can't fail- failing is bad...but the reality is, often in life you do fail- but it's the people that accept it, pick themselves back up, and continue forward that succeed.

That'd be something I'd like to look at further. There's a book called Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell about what makes people successful and looks at the people around them, the home life or community in general. From my own thinking while reading that book it made a hell of a lot more sense that someone who was given confidence by the people around them, who were around them constantly (family, friends, etc.), was more plausible to be successful in life. The idea that a person doesn't need the same amount of love and acceptance to preserver is intriguing; I'd want to hear more about that.

 

[subwayrider]

Interesting. I took it a bit differently- but I see your point.

I saw it as - just because you're smart, doesn't mean you'll succeed. As well as, just because you're not the smartest- doesn't mean you won't succeed. Also, there are many individual cases where, given the odds of being disadvantaged, lack of resources, accessibility issues, etc. - people have succeeded because of their will to succeed. I see grit as an overarching definition for things like 'motivation', 'resiliency', and 'perseverance'. I don't see grit and success as being a causal relationship- more correlational....as your grit increases, your opportunity to succeed does as well...but this is just a simple statement, and disregards a variety of external factors that contribute to ones success.

Interesting that you bring up that it starts at home...there's cases where children have succeeded despite their home environment...it's almost like grit is an innate skill, but perhaps it's also someone can learn.

I think the culture around education has often been that you can't fail- failing is bad...but the reality is, often in life you do fail- but it's the people that accept it, pick themselves back up, and continue forward that succeed.

What interests me is the extent to which grit is intrinsic in any given person.

This came to mind...some of the theologians of old reasoned that God could be ultimately to blame for the Fall of Adam and Eve, because while the couple did make the choice to eat of the Tree, God could have created them such that they were less susceptible to sin than the way He/It/God actually did make them.

I find it intriguing.

EDIT: Darn. I need to start reading posts all the way. You'd already mentioned my point.

I'm quite sure the question will go unresolved, however, for some time.

 

[say what]

What interests me is the extent to which grit is intrinsic in any given person.

This came to mind...some of the theologians of old reasoned that God could be ultimately to blame for the Fall of Adam and Eve, because while the couple did make the choice to eat of the Tree, God could have created them such that they were less susceptible to sin than the way He/It/God actually did make them.

I find it intriguing.

I agree...this would be an interesting path to pursue.

From the research I've heard being done on grit (just locally), it's very basic. I asked about correlations to MBTI/personality traits, and they said they didn't know if that's been looked at. To me, this would be fundamental!

 

[subwayrider]

I agree...this would be an interesting path to pursue.

From the research I've heard being done on grit (just locally), it's very basic. I asked about correlations to MBTI/personality traits, and they said they didn't know if that's been looked at. To me, this would be fundamental!

Yeah...I'm pretty sure there are strong correlations. INFJs are supposed to be one of the most likely groups to stay in school, for instance. Many INFPs are prone to quitting.

I would think practical types like the SJs would be the most consistent and hardworking. It's sort of their thing.

 

[LucyJr]

I think form that narrow perspective this lady is right.
To me its about confidence and a lack of it. Confident people, even if a bit stupid, usually get to the top, while the ones who feel inferior, always remain low.

But than I'm a Christian. I think confidence is a illusion. The sentiment of trust in oneself is a false equation, while the sentiment of inferiority is again a false equation. True attidude to oneself is to 'die to self', to be humble and in 'low spirit'. Any manifestation of self, wether confidence or a lack of it, is pride, and therefore sin.

 

[subwayrider]

I think form that narrow perspective this lady is right.
To me its about confidence and a lack of it. Confident people, even if a bit stupid, usually get to the top, while the ones who feel inferior, always remain low.

Pretty much...social skills might even be more the deciding factor than ability or confidence, which seems to be a constant source of frustration for the gifted but socially awkward types.

It actually made me a bit angry that my grades started going up after dropping in for office hours a few times. See, I don't think it was because I was doing anything drastically differently, per se, but because the TAs liked me after that and probably felt guilty marking me down since I had a face to them from that point forward, and wasn't just a Student ID No. and free-floating name.

And don't get me started on the rampant friends-procuring-friends-jobs phenomenon.

What say what and I were wondering about, though, was the factors that go into a person's resilience, to what extent "grit" is innate.

 

[say what]

I think form that narrow perspective this lady is right.
To me its about confidence and a lack of it. Confident people, even if a bit stupid, usually get to the top, while the ones who feel inferior, always remain low.

But than I'm a Christian. I think confidence is a illusion. The sentiment of trust in oneself is a false equation, while the sentiment of inferiority is again a false equation. True attidude to oneself is to 'die to self', to be humble and in 'low spirit'. Any manifestation of self, wether confidence or a lack of it, is pride, and therefore sin.

So, from your perspective, having grit would be sinful?

 

[LucyJr]

[MENTION=10252]say what[/MENTION]
It depends I think.
Someone could have grit on feeding the hungry african children...that is a succes too.

But I think I understand that the lady in the video talks about personal succes, which I don't think is bad, its just there are some many people and so many views on this. For example, some people don't want succes, they just want to make something significant in their life, something that matters to them. Others want to be always on the top, no matter the top is subjective, they jsut have to be there. Its complicated really, at least for me.
Why they don't make some videos on how to find your passion or your desire and fight for it? Because many people think there is one way only, one path of succes, and all the motivational books talk about this. It doesn't matter to them the vocation, its just to get there, to 'shine' in glory.

I see it everything as is been sell to people, a image of succes. The question is, are this people that have succes really happy?
But I don't even know what I'm talking . Its just that I find it hard to believe everything. I must come to my own conclusion.

 

[floatingbridge]

From my experience, while grit (perseverance) is an important factor, there is no point in continually wringing from a towel that has no water left in it. This calls for insight and reflection as well.

In the past, I have stubbornly struggled upriver for a long time. In contrast to the video’s perspective of keeping to commitments, sometimes, you need the maturity to change/ adapt your goals and direction because you’re not gonna achieve that fantastic, initial goal you put up a waterfall (though this impossible goal-setting might be more prominent with idealistic personalities...)

Some gather the 'tools' they need to use to beat themselves from yesterday, quicker than others (this is my preferred definition of success), but to answer the OP question, I’m not too sure if grit & insight is innate or learnt. It is probably a mixture of both. ~

 

[LucyJr]

Pretty much...social skills might even be more the deciding factor than ability or confidence, which seems to be a constant source of frustration for the gifted but socially awkward types.

It actually made me a bit angry that my grades started going up after dropping in for office hours a few times. See, I don't think it was because I was doing anything drastically differently, per se, but because the TAs liked me after that and probably felt guilty marking me down since I had a face to them from that point forward, and wasn't just a Student ID No. and free-floating name.

And don't get me started on the rampant friends-procuring-friends-jobs phenomenon.

What say what and I were wondering about, though, was the factors that go into a person's resilience, to what extent "grit" is innate.

On th social skills, there are some people who study all their lives, and than...BUM, they writte a book or something and they are famous. And to me that is really something productive, the guy works hard and he gets the prize which he deserves. I mean, he makes something for society also, not just for himself.

What say what and I were wondering about, though, was the factors that go into a person's resilience, to what extent "grit" is innate.

I don't think its innate. Some develop it from anger and pride -I can't lose. With what this guy is better than me? - while others just have to develop it, life teaches them this skill, or it might be the nature of their profession.
But I think in this context grit comes down and its fueled by personal ambition. And that is a dangerous teritory. People get hurt there.

 

[ThomasJ79]

Being able to delay gratification is also key to obtaining one's goals.

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

I have so much grit. So much grit that I have trouble understanding other people. They sometimes seem so cowardly to me, or dumb. I'm ruthless when I set my mind on a goal and I keep at it until I get it. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, in fact in some ways I'm plain stupid. But I know I'm a genius in other aspects. I have a strong understanding of human nature. I can feel certain things... like in the stock market I can feel the supply and demand, that's how I made 700% last year. It's like I dance with the market or something.

All of my success is attributed to grit. If you aren't being challenged then you are doing something wrong. And I always make sure I'm challenging myself. I also make sure that I always think for myself. When people say "you're supposed to do it this way" I always ask "why?". And when I'm doing something my own way I always ask "why the fuck not?".

 

[invisible]

its true - talent is not accomplishment.

 

[Gaze]

From my experience, while grit (perseverance) is an important factor, there is no point in continually wringing from a towel that has no water left in it. This calls for insight and reflection as well.

In the past, I have stubbornly struggled upriver for a long time. In contrast to the video’s perspective of keeping to commitments, sometimes, you need the maturity to change/ adapt your goals and direction because you’re not gonna achieve that fantastic, initial goal you put up a waterfall (though this impossible goal-setting might be more prominent with idealistic personalities...)

Some gather the 'tools' they need to use to beat themselves from yesterday, quicker than others (this is my preferred definition of success), but to answer the OP question, I’m not too sure if grit & insight is innate or learnt. It is probably a mixture of both. ~

I agree strongly with this. I think we also have to be realistic and know our limitations. It doesn't make sense to keep going at a goal that's not gonna work or materialize. At some point, some may need to tell themselves to let that goal go, and try something else. Doesn't make them a failure. So, yeah, insight and reflection is important to this process.

 

[barbad0s]

Due to the mind-body connection, eating more insoluble fibre and having to feel like Stonehenge is being arranged in your rectum will increase your mental grit too.