Grit - The key to success?

Lone Wolf said:
I have so much grit. So much grit that I have trouble understanding other people. They sometimes seem so cowardly to me, or dumb. I'm ruthless when I set my mind on a goal and I keep at it until I get it. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, in fact in some ways I'm plain stupid. But I know I'm a genius in other aspects. I have a strong understanding of human nature. I can feel certain things... like in the stock market I can feel the supply and demand, that's how I made 700% last year. It's like I dance with the market or something.

All of my success is attributed to grit. If you aren't being challenged then you are doing something wrong. And I always make sure I'm challenging myself. I also make sure that I always think for myself. When people say "you're supposed to do it this way" I always ask "why?". And when I'm doing something my own way I always ask "why the fuck not?".
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I can definitely see levels of testosterone, serotonin, and dopamine potentially playing a role in these things.
 
subwayrider said:
Pretty much...social skills might even be more the deciding factor than ability or confidence, which seems to be a constant source of frustration for the gifted but socially awkward types.

It actually made me a bit angry that my grades started going up after dropping in for office hours a few times. See, I don't think it was because I was doing anything drastically differently, per se, but because the TAs liked me after that and probably felt guilty marking me down since I had a face to them from that point forward, and wasn't just a Student ID No. and free-floating name.

And don't get me started on the rampant friends-procuring-friends-jobs phenomenon.

What say what and I were wondering about, though, was the factors that go into a person's resilience, to what extent "grit" is innate.
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Mmm! This is interesting! As a TA, I will admit that if I know a student, and they show interest and motivation, I do mark them a bit differently. I think social skills are a part of it- but also going out and making your face be known, building those networks, and getting those connections....I think that is so huge in success!
 
LucyJr said:
[MENTION=10252]say what[/MENTION]
It depends I think.
Someone could have grit on feeding the hungry african children...that is a succes too.

But I think I understand that the lady in the video talks about personal succes, which I don't think is bad, its just there are some many people and so many views on this. For example, some people don't want succes, they just want to make something significant in their life, something that matters to them. Others want to be always on the top, no matter the top is subjective, they jsut have to be there. Its complicated really, at least for me.
Why they don't make some videos on how to find your passion or your desire and fight for it? Because many people think there is one way only, one path of succes, and all the motivational books talk about this. It doesn't matter to them the vocation, its just to get there, to 'shine' in glory.

I see it everything as is been sell to people, a image of succes. The question is, are this people that have succes really happy?
But I don't even know what I'm talking :D. Its just that I find it hard to believe everything. I must come to my own conclusion.
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I agree with you that success is objective, and it's different for everyone...I don't think she was saying there's necessarily a definition for success, just that - especially in our education system- we rely SO heavily on IQ and GPA to rate 'intelligence' and 'potential' ...what I see is that, within the context of education, IQ/GPA might not be the best indicator of succeeding...

I do think grit translates into other areas as well! But I think it's interesting that someone is speaking up about other potentially measurable outcomes that teachers/educators can be using to assess students. If grit is a 'softer' skill, can we teach it? I see this a bit like professionalism- not everyone understands what it means to be professional and the competencies that come with it. Some people believe things like honesty and integrity - key competencies in professionalism - can't be taught. Others believe that they can! So it would be interesting to see if grit can be taught, or it's just something someone has...or perhaps you can teach certain aspects of grit!

As for videos on finding your passion and fighting for your desire- there's a lot of info out there...self-help books are crazy about this! But grit within this context isn't necessarily being proposed to be applied through a self-help rubric- but more of a "is this a competency we should be considering to be a vital part of being 'successful'" ...kind of like comprehension and logic!
 
floatingbridge said:
From my experience, while grit (perseverance) is an important factor, there is no point in continually wringing from a towel that has no water left in it. This calls for insight and reflection as well.

In the past, I have stubbornly struggled upriver for a long time. In contrast to the video’s perspective of keeping to commitments, sometimes, you need the maturity to change/ adapt your goals and direction because you’re not gonna achieve that fantastic, initial goal you put up a waterfall (though this impossible goal-setting might be more prominent with idealistic personalities...)

Some gather the 'tools' they need to use to beat themselves from yesterday, quicker than others (this is my preferred definition of success), but to answer the OP question, I’m not too sure if grit & insight is innate or learnt. It is probably a mixture of both. ~
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Very interesting points. I think you bring up a good point about knowing when to stop- or understanding your abilities and whether or not you should change a plan. But I also think that today people give up so easily- if something is hard, or not the most attractive task- they just give up. People don't really want to work hard to get to where they are. But that's just my thoughts.
 
Framed said:
I agree strongly with this. I think we also have to be realistic and know our limitations. It doesn't make sense to keep going at a goal that's not gonna work or materialize. At some point, some may need to tell themselves to let that goal go, and try something else. Doesn't make them a failure. So, yeah, insight and reflection is important to this process.
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i agree with this slightly. its perfectly OK to adjust goals in order to achieve an outcome that has become more preferable or certain. but success is not always a yes/no matter. there are many people who are ready to tell us that we cant achieve things, that we dont have the talent or ability, and sometimes theyre right, but sometimes they just say these things because it reflects their own beliefs about life. sometimes its better to try and fail than not to try at all. from a purely practical perspective it doesnt always represent a loss; there is valuable learning potential in attempting to achieve. and limitations are not always what they seem - sometimes the boundaries are more permeable than they appear. by doing things, you can break the boundaries of what was previously possible.
 
Framed said:
I agree strongly with this. I think we also have to be realistic and know our limitations. It doesn't make sense to keep going at a goal that's not gonna work or materialize. At some point, some may need to tell themselves to let that goal go, and try something else. Doesn't make them a failure. So, yeah, insight and reflection is important to this process.
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Two things you need to be careful about. 1) people love to comment on shit that they don't understand. The average person doesn't see something until it's right in their face. So EVERYTIME you set a goal worth accomplishing, people are going to comment on what you are doing. Some people are actually ballsy enough to comment on what you "should" do. You have to have a strong enough sense of self to get passed these people. 2) sometimes when you are working towards a goal it can feel like you a years away when really you are closer than you've ever been. The perception isn't always the reality and you need to be able to see past that which at times feels impossible and can wear down on your heart and energy.
 
say what said:
going out and making your face be known, building those networks, and getting those connections....I think that is so huge in success!
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That is an arbitrary conception of success, no? We as an extraverted nation choose to define success in those terms because we value extraversion.
 
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People seem to have a problem with limits. The world is full of boundaries and limits. That's life. Nothing is wrong with realizing this and accepting it. You can't always have everything you want. That's ok. Sometimes, you just have to realize the difference between what's possible and what's probable. If I want to be successful, I'd rather go with the probable. You can't keep telling someone to fight at something that just isn't going to work no matter how hard they push and fight to keep going. After a while, they'll feel ridiculous and frustrated. Having achievable goals is better than chasing after fantastical dreams that will never come true. If I'm going to apply grit, it may as well be in something that will likely pan out than putting effort into something that won't be realized.
 
Framed said:
People seem to have a problem with limits. The world is full of boundaries and limits. That's life. Nothing is wrong with realizing this and accepting it. You can't always have everything you want. That's ok. Sometimes, you just have to realize the difference between what's possible and what's probable. If I want to be successful, I'd rather go with the probable. You can't keep telling someone to fight at something that just isn't going to work no matter how hard they push and fight to keep going. After a while, they'll feel ridiculous and frustrated. Having achievable goals is better than chasing after fantastical dreams that will never come true. If I'm going to apply grit, it may as well be in something that will likely pan out than putting effort into something that won't be realized.
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yes i think that approach to success is one way to do things. it is pragmatic to keep your feet on the ground. you dont want to end up homeless and broken from trying to do something that you truly have no ability for. but...

limits arent realities, theyre conceptions of realities, so it doesnt hurt to question them and discover where they came from, what their origin is, and what their exact connection to reality is. sometimes they are genuine, sometimes they are imposed by false authorities, such as history, tradition, culture, even parents, teachers, friends.

ive heard that the best learners approach tasks in which there is a very significant probability of failure. they arent afraid of failure, and theyre effective learners because they are able to extract a form of success from any outcome in the form of learning. either way, because the challenge is great, the payoff in terms of learning is great. when we learn something, that increases our chances of success in something else. things that were previously impossible become less impossible. there isnt always a way of predicting what will be learned or what will become possible. and so failure is in some ways a thrilling adventure.

all things that are possible now are things that were once limitations, and things that someone once said "you cant do that!". people are always telling other people that they are incapable of one thing or another and i think that most peoples problem with limitations is not that they refuse to accept them, but that they are too ready to accept them. im not telling anyone to fight at anything; but im sure that too many people are telling too many other people NOT to fight at things.

maybe they will feel ridiculous and frustrated, or maybe they wont. it depends completely on their temperament and attitude. think of a christian religious. the religious knows that they are a sinner, and they believe that they can never be free of their sinning nature, so in a sense they are doomed to failure - but they try anyway, they work towards inner moral purity, even though its unobtainable. they doubt the existence of god, and find they cannot believe naturally, but the nature of faith is to choose to believe, and so they keep choosing to believe - they are doomed to unbelief, can never be successful in their belief, but at least they are faithful. the tasks are futile, but to those people, not without merit. i think that a lot of people feel this way about their careers. they are doomed to mediocrity, they will never experience "success", but it doesnt mean that they arent achieving anything, that they arent contributing to the field in some way. thats enough for them; success isnt the goal; its doing something that they believe in, and thats rewarding. maybe someone could use parts of what they achieved in order to contribute to a final goal that was what they were working towards? maybe their work indicates future directions? or inspires others? all is not lost.

i would say that grit is not in doing something that you know you can succeed at. that doesnt require application of grit, because you already know youre going to succeed! grit is accepting the strong possibility of failure and doing it anyway!
 
I think... we're all dead anyway so it's kind of silly to attach yourself to pointless goals. Sorry. I've been around a lot of dead/dying people lately (occupational hazard) and when I see people die with a 20+ year spread between their ages, it makes these silly little goals we set for ourselves all seem rather pointless in the end.

I've seen a former coal miner die at 90 and a Psychologist die in their mid 30's within a couple weeks of each other. I've seen brainless nitwits ride around on their 4 wheelers, happy as can be and while college graduates scrape the bottom of the occupational ladder to get by. Guess what happens in the end - they both die.

To me, the successful person was the one most content with their life, not the one making it the farthest. What we call success and the grit that makes it is all an illusion.
 
I believe that the most successful people are not the smartest or the most talented but the ones that had the most 'drive'. I have no doubt that there are many very talented actors, comedians, artists, writers who are left unknown simply because they didn't have the drive to be 'successful'. Not that I think there's anything wrong with that, because those people who don't have this 'drive' probably aren't meant to have that type of success and probably don't really want it. Success and a happy life means many different to people and for some it may include not having to 'kill' themselves trying to reach a goal but finding 'inner peace'.

Where I think 'grit' is important is learning not to give up too easily or get discouraged because things aren't happening as fast or the exact way we would have liked them to (which I think is common) and to learn that it is ok to fail and that getting up, brushing yourself off and moving forward is the best reaction to failure.

I think 'drive' is innate but I think 'grit' can be taught. If you have drive then you will have grit but if you don't have a natural drive you can still be taught to not give up on accomplishing your goals. That doesn't mean keep trying something that obviously doesn't work, but more adapting and figuring what will work to get you where you want to be.

I get overwhelmed by tasks and feel like they will never get accomplished, in the past I probably would have given up, now I look at things in small chunks and small victories and they all add up to get me in the direction that I want to go to reach my goals. The end goal may not look exactly like the original goal but I'm not giving up until the result is satisfactory.

On another note, I dislike when people speak like kids in school are commodities that need to meet a general idea of success and that we all need to find the key to having them 'produce' and come out at the end as these perfect little beings that match our expectations. They're people not little robots that we need to 'train' to be as productive and successful as possible.
 
subwayrider said:
That is an arbitrary conception of success, no? We as an extraverted nation choose to define success in those terms because we value extraversion.
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Yes and no.

Success is both an individual and societal definition. The idea of an individual's success in life varies between people and their goals, values, interests, etc. However, there are measurable levels of success at a population level. Success is measured both in subjective and objective terms.

Within an objective lens - success often equates to meeting your end goal...whatever that it.

Often, this will require outside assistance - education, job, professional development, social support, financial assistance, knowledge....the list goes on. Building a network that connects you to potential pools of support, regardless of being an introvert or extrovert, will help you.
 
Lerxst said:
To me, the successful person was the one most content with their life, not the one making it the farthest. What we call success and the grit that makes it is all an illusion.
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I agree that it shouldn't be about achieving particular things by a certain age because things are not always likely to pan out the way we imagine. This doesn't mean we shouldn't have goals. If it makes someone happy to keep trying, to push themselves to see how far they can go, and they feel they are getting something out of it, then that's good. The problem is the "I'm going to work myself to death achieving it" kind of thinking that is destructive or "the world is going to end if I don't get this done" that is unhealthy.

La Sagna said:
On another note, I dislike when people speak like kids in school are commodities that need to meet a general idea of success and that we all need to find the key to having them 'produce' and come out at the end as these perfect little beings that match our expectations. They're people not little robots that we need to 'train' to be as productive and successful as possible.
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This was one of my main issues with the argument is the idea that we should teach kids to strive hard for things that may never result in anything or be satisfying. I think it's more important to strive for things which are achievable and personally satisfying and fulfilling than to simply strive to meet a theoretical standard to please everyone.

I also agree that it's not always about having big goals but looking at smaller goals, and taking things step by step to achieve them. It's tough to have grit when you feel as if success is a long way off. If you strive for small goals and incorporate short term success which allow you to see results in a short time, it will probably help someone feel more confident that if they stick it out, they will be able to achieve bigger goals later on. But especially in our world where most people don't have luxury of waiting for long periods to see results because immediate results are expected, it's not sensible to expect patience for long periods if the person waiting is not being patient for the results. We don't live in a vacuum. What comes to mind is that person who works for a company for 20+ years giving their all to the job, hoping to one day get a promotion - true grit, but only to see someone who's worked two or even 5 years be promoted over them. Many companies are not rewarding grit. They are not appreciating grit. Instead, they're going for what costs them less to hire someone. So, it maybe disadvantaging someone to say "stick it out" when maybe they should move on. In our world today, it's the person who sticks it out who's getting the shaft. I have seen this too often. Of course, I think we should work hard to achieve good things for our lives. But I don't think it's realistic message to tell someone if they just hang in there, one day. Because all too often, it's the person who's only be around a short period of time who's getting opportunities that many would say should be given to someone who's shown commitment over time.
 
i think she was mainly saying that she thinks its possible for most kids to succeed at education and be enabled o proceed with their inspirations in life, that its not necessarily a matter of inherent ability. i heard that most university professors have iqs around 120, this is high but by no means stratospheric, if these people can obtain such high degrees of intellectual accomplishment it seems reasonable that kids can not fail at school. i dont think shes talking about making kids perfect, just helping them to meet educational objectives.
 
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