[PAX] Grade vs. Competence

[Gaze]

One of the biggest difficulties in education today is the focus on grade vs. competence. Since focus is making the grade, and passing the test, there is less focus or emphasis on the part of students and educators on learning for permanency of learning. I'm concerned that with business model of education dominating education today, that the value of education is being lost in the focus on how well you did which is translated into grade received, than the knowledge learned and level of competence achieved.

Another issue i think which affects learning is that instructors are dealing with greater gaps in knowledge within the classroom - greater diversity in levels of background knowledge, education, and competency, which makes it difficult to relate to students at different levels of understanding, and adequately evaluating students progress and competency using the same criteria. Many students are not prepared for classroom learning or setting, and need more individualized attention.

Teachers are being blamed for the problems when in many cases, it's the system in which they operate, which sets up unrealistic expectations for what can be learned and accomplished in a term or school year.

Of course, the issue of education is more complicated, and i don't think responsibility can be placed on any one particular source, but how can we reorient education to focus on knowledge, learning, and understanding for practical and professional purposes with a realistic vision within a realistic time frame, while keeping students at the center of the teaching/learning model.

thoughts?

I'd like the keep this discussion civil. thank you.

 

[invisible]

Oh well. I find myself partial to a little controversy.

 

[Gaze]

Oh well. I find myself partial to a little controversy.

Ok, well, let's see if there are some thoughts on this.

 

[Norton]

I can say that no one is an engineer upon graduation. He or she might be an engineer a year after engineering school if they've paid attention. The same goes for medical school--you're not a doctor at least until you've done a year of internship, if that. So, what does this say about school as opposed to practical experience/apprenticeship?

 

[middle1]

I think parents should be more involved in their childrens education instead of being lazy and leaving it all up to underpaid and overworked teachers.

 

[Gaze]

I can say that no one is an engineer upon graduation. He or she might be an engineer a year after engineering school if they've paid attention. The same goes for medical school--you're not a doctor at least until you've done a year of internship, if that. So, what does this say about school as opposed to practical experience/apprenticeship?

Quite true, education alone is not enough. Job experience through internships, etc. are also important. Maybe, they should be paired simultaneously so that there's less emphasis on classroom learning and more on professional application - maybe allow experience to have a larger role as part of the grading?

 

[Gaze]

I think parents should be more involved in their childrens education instead of being lazy and leaving it all up to underpaid and overworked teachers.

Agree that parental involvement plays a positive role in children's interest and motivation in learning. i also think that teacher and instructors need better training at the secondary and college level so that they can handle the challenges they face in the classroom, especially in areas of classroom management. They also need a more supportive school system which has fair and reasonable expectations and provides resources to help them achieve educational goals which help them to be more efficient and effective and which in the long term further the students' best interest.

 

[invisible]

Sorry I don't think I can coherently respond to all the thoughts you raised as I haven't considered it as deeply. But I have had some thoughts of my own on related issues,

I really flogged myself to engage deeply with the material and sometimes I wished that I could have been graded purely on my discussion participation as I always came to class with something meaningful to contribute. I found it very difficult to complete written work at a highly polished standard and to submit it on time. I wished that more of my grade could have been derived from my actual understandings. I do agree that this is the most important thing. I felt constantly and still feel that if my work had been measured in this way rather than through my ability to compile written information, that I would have performed extremely well academically. But also I feel that I recognise more now the value of written work to demonstrate abilities both to adapt to requirements and to functionally apply knowledge. Which I think are pretty important. I probably would have been able to achieve these things if I hadn't been struggling with other issues in my life throughout my university years of study.

 

[Grey Wolf]

well, a good example would be one of my classmates. his grades are pretty good but hes THE most incompetent person i ever met

 

[Gaze]

Sorry I don't think I can coherently respond to all the thoughts you raised as I haven't considered it as deeply. But I have had some thoughts of my own on related issues,

I really flogged myself to engage deeply with the material and sometimes I wished that I could have been graded purely on my discussion participation as I always came to class with something meaningful to contribute. I found it very difficult to complete written work at a highly polished standard and to submit it on time. I wished that more of my grade could have been derived from my actual understandings. I do agree that this is the most important thing. I felt constantly and still feel that if my work had been measured in this way rather than through my ability to compile written information, that I would have performed extremely well academically. But also I feel that I recognise more now the value of written work to demonstrate abilities both to adapt to requirements and to functionally apply knowledge. Which I think are pretty important. I probably would have been able to achieve these things if I hadn't been struggling with other issues in my life throughout my university years of study.

@invisible

Important points:

1) balance of school, work, and other obligations often makes it difficult to handle the expectations of school work, etc. Less time for study, concentration, focus on other issues, other priorities are competing with school for student's attention. The educational model in the past, at the college level, was based on complete and total committment to learning/education. Work and other responsibilities were not to interfere with the educational imperative. Of course times change, and today, we, as a society, are balancing more expectations than we were in previous decades. It's not considered realistic to expect school/education to be the main priority anymore.

2) the use of discussion and oral communication in grading student achievement. I had similar experiences in college. I did poorly on my college writing papers but contributions to class participation and discussions were more substantial. I agree that efficient and effective written communication is important but i agree with you that a student's strengths should be considered. But does this mean, each student would be graded differently on different assignments, or should more emphasis be placed on teaching to strengths vs. areas which need more improvement? Food for thought.

 

[bamf]

The education system of the United States is messed up because it treats each student the same. I firmly believe that all kids have the ability to achieve and be 'successful' in their own defined terms, but we aren't allowed to teach in that manner. Home situations are different, strengths are different, learning styles are different...yet every kid has to take the same test to get the same grade and be taught in the same way.

Special education students (the ones that actually belong there) are forced to finish standardized tests before they can get back to coursework that actually might benefit them. I mean kids who literally are incapable of taking the same test as students without disabilities are held to the same standard. ESL and bi-lingual programs are getting cut across the nation out of xenophobic fear. If we really had the kids best interests at heart, why would we force them to float or sink in a year?

Grades are terrible measures of students' achievements.

 

[slant]

well, a good example would be one of my classmates. his grades are pretty good but hes THE most incompetent person i ever met

[youtube]57riRQF-8Rc&feature=related[/youtube]

 

[Gaze]

Here's a link to an IMDB.com thread on the documentary film "Waiting for Superman". Some interesting views on this topic. It helps to register the IMDB.com site so that you can read the comments "nested" rather than having to click each response to the OP.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1566648/board/nest/172600946