Generation from the Divorced | Page 3 | INFJ Forum

Generation from the Divorced

I've been rereading this thread~ and I have this question~ Is this really interesting? Becaaaause~ One of the main reasons I made this thread was because I thought it would appeal to the interest of many peoples~ So I'm trying to make the thread as open ended and loose and intriguing yea~ all that stuff~ But I have no idea if it's working or not :0~

Is this thread interesting enough? Should we change the focus to make things more personal and less general?

Lol.... uuh :p I just felt curious~ probably insecurities or something, but obviously not insecure enough to not ask.
 
It's a good thread, and something worth discussing. the opinions of everyone are interesting to me.
 
My husband is an INFJ. As a child of divorced parents, he HATED divorce. Always, always said it would never be something he would do. He has no relationship with his mother as he hated her from a young age because she caused the divorce by her affair with a married man. He never saw his father much after the divorce so no relationship there. Obviously, all in all, it damaged my husband.

Fast forward 23 years of marriage (we are both 40). My INFJ husband has become the antithesis of all he was before. The man that hated divorce is in the middle of one, the man that never lied is in an abyss of deceit, the man that said he would never love again is loyal only to the stripper he has traded his family in for - (a stripper? this from the man that despised promiscuity and women you could "pick up in bars").

Effects? We have a daughter, 22, (that has told him he is scum, and he is dead to her), she is an ISFJ and has taken this very badly. Our son (10), is wetting himself involuntarily during the day, shaking, unable to go to school etc ( I think he is an INFJ), he is very withdrawn and unable to talk. SO, divorce? Horrendous.

My husband has become the opposite of all he was. He was the INFJ description to the letter, devoted, honest and loyal to his family. Now none of his family will see him ever again. And incase you say there are two sides to every story?
Normally yes, however, my husband himself says it is all him, he went from a man who only months ago said his wife was the greatest woman he had ever met and would never love again. I was his only friend etc to kicking me in the street because I said I wanted to speak to his stripper 'friend'. He accepts all responsibility because he wanted a 'new life'. For dignity and sanity I can have no contact with him whatsoever.

And yes, he typed as INFJ. many times over a long period.

So, divorce is extremely damaging to all concerned. It teaches that relationships are disposable, it is disloyal. Yes, there will always be cases where divorce is necessary however, most cases are through selfishness and lack of effort.

Over 60% of divorced couples regret it when they find that that statistically 2nd marriages are much more likely to fail. Why? Because you take all the problems you had from the first marriage and just add more i.e step children, maintenance payments, resentment etc.

Look around, society is falling apart. The building blocks of society are families. Strong families make strong societies/communities. Broken families bring forth broken societies and that is what we have in the western world. A society of 'me first' and "I want". No regard for others or for thinking ahead past momentary pleasure.
 
...I just feel that not enough of my peers value marriage as the life-long choice that it should be.

Why should it be a life-long choice? Other than this is how it has typically been defined, what makes this a should?

Many say that families are the cornerstone for society, surely this drastic change in the family composition would yield an interesting shift in society :0 right? right?

My sense is that families are considered the cornerstone because humans have a need for social safety. I do not think that sense of social safety can only be achieved within a male/female lifelong committed marriage. I do think that there are social difficulties that come as a result of believing you are in a secure social environment and find that security disrupted, or if you never have the opportunity to experience a secure social environment.

I think that society unnecessarily intertwines marriage with family with social security. I believe there are other viable routes to the same end.

In our society, because as a whole we do intertwine these things, when in other aspects a divorce is amicable and a sense of nuclear social security is maintained, I think that the societal difference for those who no longer exist within a typically expressed family may be more damaging than the separation of the parent's marriage.

That's a very good observation. True, I agree that being married is not vital to what we perceive as a healthy family. For example: An uncle and aunt I have are not married but have been "living together" for more than a decade already with two children.

But even in this situation, a metaphorical divorce is very well possible.

Yep, exactly.

But apart of that. I am sure that being raised by a single parent all your life due to... one of your parents leaving you as a child (by death or something) Is quite different from experiencing one of your parents going through a divorce.

Maybe it's interesting to observe the two different instances. Both are lacking in a gender role model (to an extent) but how are the results different?

Probably in as many ways as the people involved are different.

The ideal divorce (lol is that an oxymoron?)
Now if we were to take into perspective a scenario where a relatively simple and relaxed divorce took place. (one where the child still had access to his/her needs without a violent/abrupt divorce) Would the child still be affected in any way?

I think in large part, my own divorce was an ideal one. It was amicable, there was little discord or fighting prior to the divorce, and my ex-husband and I are still friends. Love is communicated to my children regularly in both spoken and non-verbal ways by both my ex-husband and me.

Yet, they were previously in a vision of their secure social environment that unexpectedly changed. I suspect especially for my oldest son, that shakes a little bit his sense of security with social environments all together. He may be willing to trust that he will be secure, but only so far. I suspect it has instilled some sense of doubt about the permanence of these social environments.

I feel sad about that, but when I think about it, aren't they to some degree inherently insecure? I mean we can pretend that valuation of marriage makes intimate social environments secure, but divorce and separation has always existed to some degree. Often a technically intact marriage is just a social facade for a deep separation of intimacy in that social environment.

Overall, I do value marriage, but only so far. I don't think it is the social panacea that it is held out to be and I think that to some degree belief in it's ability to protect people from the hardships of life can actually cause hardship.

That's the other thing about all of this. Certainly there are detrimental effects to the separation of one's supposedly secure social environment. But there are multitudes of events in anyone's life, many of which can be perceived as difficult or detrimental. Divorce is just one of those events.

One can conclude that high divorce rates were a result from new-found freedom. How will the newer generations go about changing if the source of the problem seems to be the fact that they have the ability to choose?

I think one possibility is one we are already seeing evidence of: this generation is choosing alternate forms of socially secure environments and is choosing a perspective that accepts the impermanence of these social environments. I think there is a lower degree of trust that one will be securely supported by their social network and as a result a greater sense of need for strength in independent relationship with life. It could be one source of the hyper-individualism I've seen in a thread title here recently.

Is this really the source of the problem? Or perhaps is choice/freedom merely a factor that enabled the occurrence of a different problem...? (Ooooooooh :D:D spicy~~)

It is a source of the problem, if one chooses to define the results of this societal change as a problem.

Do you think that humans are responsible enough to choose what will bring them happiness? Or will they, in their folly, inevitably make wrong decisions that they will regret (generally speaking?)

No, I don't think humans know how to choose what will bring us happiness. But that opinion stands for every societal choice we as humans would choose to make, so we might as well just make the ones that seem best for us at any given time. We will, inevitably make decisions that come with benefit and cost. No decision will be different. Just because one person values this choice over another and the benefit of this one over the cost of that one, does not make this one wise and that one folly.
 
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My parents and in laws are all divorced. They are miserable and alone (even with new partners) which makes me and my wife work harder to not make their mistakes. Divorce is to easily resorted to and makes people resort to quick emotional decisions.
 
My parents were never married and seperated before I was even born.

If they had stayed together it would have been worse for me. I lived with my mom and stepdad, but visited my dad about once a month for the weekend. It would frustrate me to not be able to see him that much, but as I grew I could definitely tell it wouldn't have worked at all if they had stayed together.
 
So, divorce is extremely damaging to all concerned. It teaches that relationships are disposable, it is disloyal. Yes, there will always be cases where divorce is necessary however, most cases are through selfishness and lack of effort.

Over 60% of divorced couples regret it when they find that that statistically 2nd marriages are much more likely to fail. Why? Because you take all the problems you had from the first marriage and just add more i.e step children, maintenance payments, resentment etc.

Look around, society is falling apart. The building blocks of society are families. Strong families make strong societies/communities. Broken families bring forth broken societies and that is what we have in the western world. A society of 'me first' and "I want". No regard for others or for thinking ahead past momentary pleasure.

That's really bleak. :( :( I'm sure not all cases can be described in the same manner, even if it could, I'm sure there's a plausible, understandable, reason for it all. Aaah! But this is such a sad story.

But society does not fall apart, it is merely perceived so. Society changes, people adapt.



My sense is that families are considered the cornerstone because humans have a need for social safety. I do not think that sense of social safety can only be achieved within a male/female lifelong committed marriage. I do think that there are social difficulties that come as a result of believing you are in a secure social environment and find that security disrupted, or if you never have the opportunity to experience a secure social environment.
You get +2 for that, ty ty ty~! :D :D To be honest I have been waiting for this perspective, yea... waiting....creepy huh? Because this perspective is quite controversial, it goes against what we see, it's more than that, deeper. But still.... controversial.

Armed with this new insight we can further delve ourselves into what might be the defining factors of what makes a society! We can directly cater to societies needs better through better understanding of what these institutions stood for, what purpose they served. yay for social sciences.

I think that society unnecessarily intertwines marriage with family with social security. I believe there are other viable routes to the same end.

This deserves it's own quote box :3.


In our society, because as a whole we do intertwine these things, when in other aspects a divorce is amicable and a sense of nuclear social security is maintained, I think that the societal difference for those who no longer exist within a typically expressed family may be more damaging than the separation of the parent's marriage.

This too. We might be onto something here you know :eek:

He may be willing to trust that he will be secure, but only so far. I suspect it has instilled some sense of doubt about the permanence of these social environments.

I feel sad about that, but when I think about it, aren't they to some degree inherently insecure? I mean we can pretend that valuation of marriage makes intimate social environments secure, but divorce and separation has always existed to some degree.

That's the other thing about all of this. Certainly there are detrimental effects to the separation of one's supposedly secure social environment. But there are multitudes of events in anyone's life, many of which can be perceived as difficult or detrimental. Divorce is just one of those events.

I love this response, it's so realistic, harsh, like reality itself. I love it. Soooo agreed, better to arm yourself with realistic insights on insecurity than to be fooled by yourself and consequently, hurt beyond repair.
I believe that this false belief in itself is more destructive than divorces in all forms. As Tovlo has mentioned, divorce and unexpected, unfortunate, events have always been present. Pretending they don't exist, although humbling, is dangerous.


Overall, I do value marriage, but only so far. I don't think it is the social panacea that it is held out to be and I think that to some degree belief in it's ability to protect people from the hardships of life can actually cause hardship.

sooo agreeed, like totally.


I think one possibility is one we are already seeing evidence of: this generation is choosing alternate forms of socially secure environments and is choosing a perspective that accepts the impermanence of these social environments. I think there is a lower degree of trust that one will be securely supported by their social network and as a result a greater sense of need for strength in independent relationship with life. It could be one source of the hyper-individualism I've seen in a thread title here recently.

Oooh~ everything is becoming intertwined :3

No, I don't think humans know how to choose what will bring us happiness. But that opinion stands for every societal choice we as humans would choose to make, so we might as well just make the ones that seem best for us at any given time. We will, inevitably make decisions that come with benefit and cost. No decision will be different. Just because one person values this choice over another and the benefit of this one over the cost of that one, does not make this one wise and that one folly.

That's true, but I do think that retrospection to how and why things happened and introspection to why one made that specific choice is fundamental to being super smart when faced with future problems. That being said, maybe that's why I started this thread in the first place? Let's get introspective on that right, about, now.

But I think everyone already knew this.....On top of that I don't feel I really added much with this post. I am feeling redundant and useless. :D

:m183::m183: Hm, extra monkey makes up for it.
 
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I think the well-being and attitudes of children have less to do with whether one is divorced or not, and more to do with the character, integrity, and capability of the parents. That is more consistent with what I have seen anyway.
 
I think the well-being and attitudes of children have less to do with whether one is divorced or not, and more to do with the character, integrity, and capability of the parents. That is more consistent with what I have seen anyway.

I would definitely agree with this, except I don't think it's possible for even the best of parents to go through a divorce (when the child is sentient) and have it not effect the child, usually in some negative way. I just think it's impossible to have that big of a change in your life, and not have it effect you. Hell, it even effects adults when their parents divorce. I don't know how a child could not be.