Friend experiences with "the bitter truth"

[sriv]

Dear [insert cliche'd woman's name here],

I need some advice. I pose a question: should the truth, without exception, always be told? Here is the scenario.

During a friendly cardgame, I stated this observation to my best friend ENFP, (1), which completely matched the context.

"(1), you would rather hear what you want to hear than the truth."

(1) immediately agreed with me. We continued on playing and he seemed to look bothered. Soon afterward, he turned aggressive. He started insulting me, which he does commonly in good humor, but this time it had a serious tone. I gave no reaction, except laughing here and there at the color and creativity of his various remarks. This did nothing to help the situation. I was mildly surprised that he didn't get loud, as he usually would in a situation that turns out against him. Another friend of us, (2), was there too. He stayed out of the situation [AKA, The Wrath of (1)], but he did agree with Kevin on some things just to get (1) off his back since he was doing something else. (1) prolonged our game and instead of beating me, drew the game out for another 7 minutes although it was evident that he would win no matter what I did and he had the chance to end the game.

My analysis...
His spontaneous reply to my observation showed that he knew that what I said was the truth. Then when he actually started thinking about it, the truth of it shamed him. His natural reaction was to channel all his depression into anger. This he could vent at any target. It only makes sense that he would vent it at me. He drew out the game to dishonor me, even though he knows I do not believe in honor. It was all to make himself feel better (which ironically fits my observation). He would rather illusion himself that he is superior instead of facing the reality of the situation and dealing with it maturely. This does not bother me, what bothers me is that he targeted me to recieve his abuse and now he feels hurt. Considering it rationally, I told the truth and he learned something about himself. The consensus regards this as "good". Considering it emotionally, I indirectly inflicted harm to him and the consensus regards this as "bad". This goes back to the question of whether or not one should tell "the bitter truth".

If it was up to me three weeks ago, I would do it again and again and again. I suffer nothing but theoretical loss of friendship, his verbal abuse has absolutely no effect on me, and he would be learning something. (Note: Learning is one of my purposes of my life, I value it greatly). But now, I feel bad. I feel bad because he has been hurt and he would not be hurt if I hadn't said that. Would I rather destroy someone's ignorance or self-esteem? I feel bad because I know things he doesn't and I lie by omission everyday by not communicating things I should. Maybe I shouldn't bother him; maybe I should find someone else to be my best friend; someone less erratic, someone who understands me more.

[cliche'd woman's name], what do you think?

Right now, I feel like saying to him, "In a few days, you'll vent off all excess emotion and we'll both apologize to each other. Why hurt ourselves by keeping up the unnecessary melodrama and worry?" I have a feeling I shouldn't say that however, because that may be a little too truthful.

It is interesting that (2) did not do anything, I'll have to think that through.

Please give me your opinion with my friend problem. It would be much appreciated.

Anyone else had experience with a similar scenario?

 

[Kwistalline]

Similar experiences? Yes and no. A friend of mine, I don't mind calling her Attilla, I have nothing to say here that she doesn't already know (in our situation truth=trust), had more than once informed me that I was dishonest not to always state what was on my mind. We've had so many discussions on the meaning of honesty and truth with regards to what to say and when, that I don't think merely discussing the matter will do.

The point: she thought that I was dishonest if I thought or felt ANYTHING and never told it to someone. I, on the other hand, felt dishonest if I verbalized feelings I wasn't sure were real. In otherwords, for me, true feelings are the ones that hold after time. Temporal feelings, the ones that do not hold, are merely the appearance of true feelings and, therefore, must not be verbalized. She (still) disagrees.

I'm not sure if this is helpful, but in a healthy relationship, such a question should not cause such distress-well, not LINGERING distress. Then again, I have to point out that you are both male . . .

 

[sumone]

"You would rather hear what you want to hear than the truth."

Was it a general statement about his personality or was it about a particular situation?

 

[sumone]

I pose a question: should the truth, without exception, always be told?

If the human race could collectively come to an honest agreement regarding that question, there would be no more problems. If we had stuck to it from the beginning, we wouldn't be in this mess now. We debate until we're blue in the face but do we do it to reach conclusions? I would say no, that we are debating simply to keep the debate in progress.

 

[sriv]

Was it a general statement about his personality or was it about a particular situation?

Both. :|

 

[sumone]

What you said was the truth and he agreed with it so what got him all hot and bothered probably wasn't the message itself but the way it was delivered. Once the logical acceptance of it passed his feelings and emotions might have caused him to want to defend, protest or explain. He might have taken it as a judgement. I don't know, truth telling is a sticky business that's for sure.

 

[Kwistalline]

What you said was the truth and he agreed with it so what got him all hot and bothered probably wasn't the message itself but the way it was delivered. Once the logical acceptance of it passed his feelings and emotions might have caused him to want to defend, protest or explain. He might have taken it as a judgement. I don't know, truth telling is a sticky business that's for sure.

That, Sumone, is an excellent observation. The NT's or ST's have that gift for diplomatic speech devoid of diplomatic delivery.

 

[sriv]

What you said was the truth and he agreed with it so what got him all hot and bothered probably wasn't the message itself but the way it was delivered. Once the logical acceptance of it passed his feelings and emotions might have caused him to want to defend, protest or explain. He might have taken it as a judgement. I don't know, truth telling is a sticky business that's for sure.

Good point. Softening up gets tedious and tiring sometimes.

 

[Shai Gar]

What you said was the truth and he agreed with it so what got him all hot and bothered probably wasn't the message itself but the way it was delivered. Once the logical acceptance of it passed his feelings and emotions might have caused him to want to defend, protest or explain. He might have taken it as a judgement. I don't know, truth telling is a sticky business that's for sure.

Good point. Softening up gets tedious and tiring sometimes.

I cannot stand it when people soften me up for something. FFS I just prefer being honoured by that person assuming I can take it, or given the respect to make up my own mind without being directed.

 

[CokeNut]

When having to deliver a truth, I try to take into account who I am approaching with it and how the information might affect him/her. I guess you could say that i will always tell you the truth, but i will try to deliver it in a way that will make you more accepting of it. And of course I expect the same in return. I want to be told the truth, but I don't want it just blurted out if there is a chance that it my hurt my feelings - people too often forget that we extroverts have feelings too.

 

[sumone]

When having to deliver a truth, I try to take into account who I am approaching with it and how the information might affect him/her. I guess you could say that i will always tell you the truth, but i will try to deliver it in a way that will make you more accepting of it. And of course I expect the same in return. I want to be told the truth, but I don't want it just blurted out if there is a chance that it my hurt my feelings - people too often forget that we extroverts have feelings too.

That is very true what you say about extroverts!

 

[54192&#cmy]

I too have been a truth teller all my life. A few things I have learned about people.

1. Most people can't handle the truth.
2. If you tell the truth you become the a hole.
3.Once your the a hole everyone around you will attack you because they fear the light of truth on them.
4.You have to decide who can handle the truth and how you will deliver it.
5.People will always feel like you are attacking them if you speak up.
6.You have to realise that one mans truth is not anothers.
7. You gotta know when to shut your mouth.

You gotta be carefull when dealing with truth. It seems that everyone has a different version. Luckily the world is full of people so if ya look you might just find others who share your truth. I only have a few friends because I realised that I only wanted to be around honest people.. I hate games..

 

[HenRick]

I did have this sort of experience all the time with my mom.

She's a ESTJ so she constantly scans everything so she can tell someone to do something.
I would tell her to wait until I finish something and she would get mad and explode.
Some times she did yell or ground me irrationally. When me and my dad told her
she was wrong she would explode more argue with my dad and say that he was
always like this or me kids don't respect me. Then the next day not care about it.

I've learned to live with her but, I don't really like being around here sometimes.

 

[Shai Gar]

I did have this sort of experience all the time with my mom.

She's a ESTJ so she constantly scans everything so she can tell someone to do something.
I would tell her to wait until I finish something and she would get mad and explode.
Some times she did yell or ground me irrationally. When me and my dad told her
she was wrong she would explode more argue with my dad and say that he was
always like this or me kids don't respect me. Then the next day not care about it.

I've learned to live with her but, I don't really like being around here sometimes.

My mother is either an ESTP or an ESTJ (probably latter), I cannot stand her either for almost the same reasons. Sometimes she's great, othertimes she has no respect for other peoples dignity or self power. I'm constantly having to put her in her place.

 

[CokeNut]

My mother is either an ESTP or an ESTJ (probably latter), I cannot stand her either for almost the same reasons. Sometimes she's great, othertimes she has no respect for other peoples dignity or self power. I'm constantly having to put her in her place.

Shai ... please don't take this personally, its more of a take on my possible reaction as an ESTP than a judgement of your behaviour towards your mom.

Your mom is probably not ESTP ... If my kid were to 'put me in my place' he had better be sure to NEVER eat so much as a cookie in my house again (it would more than likely contain vicious amounts of exlax). Of course that's in addition to smacking him across the face at the time of the incident.

 

[Shai Gar]

My mother is either an ESTP or an ESTJ (probably latter), I cannot stand her either for almost the same reasons. Sometimes she's great, othertimes she has no respect for other peoples dignity or self power. I'm constantly having to put her in her place.

Shai ... please don't take this personally, its more of a take on my possible reaction as an ESTP than a judgement of your behaviour towards your mom.

Your mom is probably not ESTP ... If my kid were to 'put me in my place' he had better be sure to NEVER eat so much as a cookie in my house again (it would more than likely contain vicious amounts of exlax). Of course that's in addition to smacking him across the face at the time of the incident.

Yeah, mum's learnt that I'm very very good at blocking, also when I put someone in their place I do it in as shaming a way as possible, but privately. Also, it's my dad and I that cook in our house.

 

[CokeNut]

Yeah, mum's learnt that I'm very very good at blocking, also when I put someone in their place I do it in as shaming a way as possible, but privately. Also, it's my dad and I that cook in our house.

So she swings? Cool, I like her!

If done privately I too will hang my head in shame (and even cry) when given a good talking to The key is that whatever I have to be ashamed of is kept private. Even if I am wrong if someone tries to correct me in public I go ballistic.

 

[Shai Gar]

Yeah, mum's learnt that I'm very very good at blocking, also when I put someone in their place I do it in as shaming a way as possible, but privately. Also, it's my dad and I that cook in our house.

So she swings? Cool, I like her!

If done privately I too will hang my head in shame (and even cry) when given a good talking to The key is that whatever I have to be ashamed of is kept private. Even if I am wrong if someone tries to correct me in public I go ballistic.

She doesn't swing anymore. she might be a body builder and have a blackbelt in juijitsu, but I'm more vicious in a fight and she knows that enough to leave me alone.

also OF COURSE i'd do it in private, not matter how much she pisses me off she's still my mother and i won't strip her dignity.

 

[CokeNut]

not matter how much she pisses me off she's still my mother and i won't strip her dignity.

Now that is the sweetest thing you've said on this board so far :shock:

 

[Shai Gar]

not matter how much she pisses me off she's still my mother and i won't strip her dignity.

Now that is the sweetest thing you've said on this board so far :shock:

Bullshit!

Blind Female Technician: "If there's anything I hate more than pity, it's fake pity from a walking hard-on like Ralph"
Francis Dolorhyde: "I have no pity"
Blind Female Technician: *Smiles*

I like this one because finally in his life he meets a woman who cannot see his ugliness, and she meets a man who will not pity her blindness. The moment is touching.