Fe and Chivalry | INFJ Forum

Fe and Chivalry

Discussion in 'The INFJ Typology' started by VH, Apr 24, 2010.

Share This Page

Watchers:
This thread is being watched by 2 users.
More threads by VH
  1. VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Threads:
    252
    Messages:
    4,830
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    849
    Trophy Points:
    657
    MBTI:
    NFJedi
    Enneagram:
    268 sx/so
    I've always felt that men should treat women chivalrously. I'm not just talking about opening doors. I'm talking about an attitude of respect, kindness, and service, treating women honorably and like the treasures that they are - whether or not they deserve it.

    I'm convinced that this sensibility was strongly rooted in my Fe.

    However, over the years, women have walked all over me because of it. Worst of all, I've let them because I've felt that I should. I've felt that no matter what happened, how they treated me, or any other factors, that this was the way people should behave. I believed this so strongly that this was one of my biggest anger triggers. I've been in more than a few fights with men who were treating women badly. Most importantly, this left me with an inability to stand up to women when they challenged me on important issues, things that would wound me terribly if I allowed it. My beliefs in how things should be were so strong that I was willing to sacrifice my emotional self in order to maintain them.

    I have no doubt this was my Fe in action.

    Recently, I was able to realize this part of myself as a distinct component, rather than an intrinsic part of my being. Now that I am aware of this facet of myself, I realize that I need to modify it, in order to keep myself healthy.

    The reason I am posting this is to point out an interesting facet of Fe, and how to deal with it. Fe is paradigm based. It is focused in a world view that is based on 'shoulds'. In order for us to change how we feel things should be, we have to first find a way to break off that facet of our paradigm. It cannot be altered while in use. Only when we can compartmentalize a part of our paradigm and isolate it, can we modify it.

    This is crucially important information for anyone who is an Fe user. We can so easily remain locked into paradigms that are unhealthy for us in the long run. We need to understand how to do this for our own well being. I hope this helps some of you as much as realizing it has helped me.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    rawr and Blind Bandit like this.
  2. Gaze

    Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Threads:
    2,380
    Messages:
    28,269
    Featured Threads:
    93
    Likes Received:
    22,755
    Trophy Points:
    1,906
    MBTI:
    INFPishy
    I think part of this separation involves learning to establish boundaries. I think Fe often assumes the world sees the things the way we do. It expects the world to respond to our motives openly, with an understanding of why we do the things we do, assuming the benefit of our actions (our Fe-ness) are clearly understood, accepted, and appreciated by those we give our respect and attention. In other words, we don't take into account what the other person is feeling or thinking about our actions. We are perceiving people and situations from our own perspective, assuming it it best because it is the ideal. This approach doesn't acknowledge that, whatever someone's intention, we are still a part of a dialectic. By doing so much and giving so much of ourselves to the ideal, we unintentionally allow the other person, to feel less responsible and sometimes more entitled to the respect they've automatically been given, because they see that we are so willing to be responsible and accountable for everything. (Although i'm using "we", i'm not necessarily describing myself alone when describing Fe).
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #2 Gaze, Apr 24, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2010
  3. OP
    VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Threads:
    252
    Messages:
    4,830
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    849
    Trophy Points:
    657
    MBTI:
    NFJedi
    Enneagram:
    268 sx/so
    Indeed! That's a very good way to further refine what I was trying to explain. Thanks for that!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Gaze likes this.
  4. IndigoSensor

    IndigoSensor Product Obtained
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Threads:
    762
    Messages:
    14,154
    Likes Received:
    1,285
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Enneagram:
    1w2 sx/so/sp
    Restraint explained it well so pretty much what she said.

    I do wanna say this though, showing woman chivalry is kinda unfair to me. The reason? Why just women? I don't understand why we shouldn't show men the same kind of respect. Of course it shouldn't be exactly the same. Look back at older times though, it seemed like women were given this sort of respect at the sake of men (I do understand that women were treated worse in other respects, so they did deserve it).

    Everyone should be treated with chivarly.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Gaze likes this.
  5. OP
    VH

    VH Variable Hybrid

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Threads:
    252
    Messages:
    4,830
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    849
    Trophy Points:
    657
    MBTI:
    NFJedi
    Enneagram:
    268 sx/so
    Agreed.

    I've always treated men chivalrously, but for men I've had a slightly different set of rules - that implied a certain degree of personal accountability on their parts. This was the problem I had with treating women chivalrously, was that I didn't feel that they needed to afford any personal accountability to deserve my behavior. I can now distance myself from the individual person enough to decide whether or not they need, deserve, or even want my chivalrous treatment.

    What I've realized is that I cannot allow the way I feel to push me into positions where I can be hurt. That's what I was doing with the way I approached the subject. Fe can easily put us in a position where we can be self sacrificing to an unhealthy degree, and worst of all, Fe will fully justify it if we are not careful.

    I still feel very strongly that women (and men, everyone for that matter) should be treated chivalrously. The difference is, I no longer feel personally responsible that the entire world does. That's a big step for me, and one that is not just healthy in this situation, but one that leads to a much larger understanding of how to keep myself emotionally healthy in the future with other Fe issues.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #5 VH, Apr 24, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2010
  6. 88chaz88

    88chaz88 Back for a limited time only
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Threads:
    141
    Messages:
    4,872
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,221
    Trophy Points:
    766
    MBTI:
    ????
    Enneagram:
    9w1
    I agree that guys should be chivalrous. It's hard for a woman to defend herself when she's stuck in the kitchen.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  7. Blind Bandit

    Blind Bandit Blind Man Being Lead to Nowhere
    Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Threads:
    132
    Messages:
    3,886
    Featured Threads:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1,105
    Trophy Points:
    792
    Gender:
    Male
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Amazing posts as always. And yes I know the feeling of both being stepped on and trying to be chivalrous.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. On my own path

    On my own path Community Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Threads:
    8
    Messages:
    219
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    ProbablyINFJ
    Generally speaking, I treat everyone with almost everyone with kindness and courtesy but I do not have different "rules" for males and females; I do however treat little children and senior people with perhaps more kindness. Why? i believe because I owe it to the senior people- their contributions have helped construct the society that we live in today whether it be by their taxes or service. And for children because they a truly weak and defenseless.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. TaylorS

    TaylorS Community Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Threads:
    4
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    INFJ
    Many people have labeled me as "Chivalrous" and comment that "one doesn't find politeness and kindness like that among you young people these days". My thinking is filled with "shoulds", and I get angry at people who violate my expectations of how people "should" behave.

    Dammit, I don't care is some may interpret it in some sexist way, i hold doors open for women
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. Quinlan

    Quinlan Right the First Time!

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2008
    Threads:
    160
    Messages:
    4,066
    Featured Threads:
    1
    Likes Received:
    316
    Trophy Points:
    0
    MBTI:
    ISFP
    I treat people like crap because I am Fi the anti-Fe, yeehaaww!!!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  11. acd

    acd Well-known member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Threads:
    142
    Messages:
    15,080
    Featured Threads:
    11
    Likes Received:
    33,055
    Trophy Points:
    1,377
    MBTI:
    infp
    Enneagram:
    9w8 sp/sx
    I attribute the fact that I compulsively toss dirty kleenexes into passing babystrollers to my Fi.
     

Share This Page