Envy of Physical Attractiveness

[slant]

This isn't a backhanded attempt to fish for complements. I do not care for that.

It's a thread about recognizing what constitutes as "good looks" generally, not meeting those standards and consequently, feeling envious of those who do.

I've been turned down based solely on my looks. I've been judged for physical deformities and such, and blatantly given the "pity look" when I tell them my acne doesn't go away, despite my best attempts and their best advice. This leads me to believe that physical attractiveness is not, in fact, entirely subjective and possibly has an objective component to it. After all, aren't some people deemed attractive by a larger number of people and some people deemed attractive by a few selected individuals?

For example, how many people who consider this person attractive?

Compared to this:

(both randomly googled)

One would generally be seen as more sexually attractive than the other.

I wonder why this happens; why certain people are more attractive than others, or why certain physical features are deemed more attractive than others. I'm also curious to see how many people can relate to this sentiment of envy and why isn't this considered natural e.g. usually the response to admitting to not being attractive is almost hostile in asserting that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Well, that's fine, so then explain why one person is more widely seen as attractive than another person, and how this isn't evidence of an objective criteria?

Thoughts and opinions.

PS. Not an emotional advice thread.

I would have to say that for the most part, physical attraction is subjective because I can't really tell who is and who isn't physical attractive naturally- by studying magazines and whatnot I think I have cultivated an opinion of who could be in magazines and therefore who *might* be attractive but in general I have no real clue.

One thing I DO know is that, when a person looks quite different from the norm they are 'unattractive' and in some sense 'scary'. I don't hold this view, personally, but it's hard to adjust oneself to being around someone who is a burn survivor and has a completely different facial structure than the majority, or someone with a cleft lip. After I get used to it I'm find but I would imagine that if I, someone who isn't affected by sexual attraction to others, is intimidated by people whom look different than I would say it likely plays a part in a sexual attraction for others.

 

[iamabird]

That is an extreme version of "fit and healthy." Health often has little to do with body type. You can be extremely healthy in mind/body and have a belly. Or have "extra" weight on you.

Health = ability. Can you move and be active and do the things you want to do? Do you feel capable and are your organs able to work properly the way they're supposed to? When I see people like this in the media with captions talking about "health" it makes me want to vomit and then have a good cry for our humanity. I wonder how happy he is in his life, having to look "attractive" all the time. And to me, he doesn't feel healthy physically or mentally. So I don't think he is attractive, no.

Jonah Hill is someone I'm incredibly attracted to. Mostly because of his energy. Energy and biology = attraction. We want to mate with someone who is able to produce children. We were not made to be these incredibly complicated and harsh creatures.

 

[slant]

I must admit that I don't really understand the need for validation. I find it strange to worry about having what other's have. I'm not saying this as a value judgement either. I honestly, just don't get it. I tease with certain people about stuff (like Cleavage [MENTION=2873]Serenity[/MENTION]; ) but it doesn't mean that I feel badly about myself.

I mean, to me, I will feel something more strongly if someone I love says it about me. If you aren't if that realm, then I'm not terribly affected by your views about me. I don't care if you like me, so I don't really care if you think I am attractive either.

It is this kind of stuff that makes me remember that I am an INTJ (and again, I don't mean that in a mean way) rather than an INFJ.

I think that appearances DO matter and the approval of people matter way more than most people will let on. I'm quoting you just to sort of give way of why I am expressing this opinion. I think there are different degrees of unattractiveness and also the sort of responses a person will get. It does not change the fact that people who are unattractive are looked at as 'lesser people' by the general population, there is a certain bias. I think the most common type of unattractiveness is being overweight, acne, or having facial features that are not pleasing to other people- wearing glasses, being crossed eyed, etc. These people are seen as unattractive and there is often an attitude, especially for people who have acne/facial blemishes/are overweight that they should 'change themselves' and then they would be seen as equals in people's eyes. I am not saying this is wrong or right. That's just one degree of it.

As we get to about the second degree of it, I think that puts in people who have deformities which are common enough but are still looked upon as unattractive. People with disabilities like autism and being in a wheelchair and perhaps personality disorders, chemical imbalances, people who have diseases which prevent them from maintaining a healthy weight which could be either being underweight or overweight- these people are seen as unattractive and looked down upon. That really weighs heavy on one's self esteem and these are things that for the most part you can't do anything about and you might have been born that way.

When you are seen as lesser by a large mass of the population it only gives way to depression, low-self-esteem and the inability to relate healthy to other people. I see individuals who have things like down syndrome all of the time get people 'feeling sorry for them' because the reality is that people know they are biased against these people and they know they discriminate against them, in some cases we can even be afraid of these people, like people with burns on their skin who look deformed, those with mental impairments who 'look funny'. I've heard people state that they know people like that will never get dates, and if they do, it's limited to a range of people who are 'like them'. So....really, approval DOES matter, people do need a healthy amount of approval, think about racism and sexism- don't you think that has affected people?

I meet kids still today who cry and get really mad when they are given dolls who share the same skin color as them because they view the doll as 'ugly' and the reason for that is because kids at school have told them these things. Healthy self-esteem is partially on the inside but you can't have 100% solid self esteem if your peers continuously reject you. People who have gone through discrimination and hate-crimes may feel peachy about themselves on the inside but they can't prevent the outside hate from seeping in and making them feel bad- it's important to care about what others think, because we can't NOT be affected by the approval/disapproval of others unless we have antisocial personality disorder. Human beings are social creatures and they crave acceptances on some degree no matter how small.

 

[Nixie]

I agree that much of what you said seems true in a shallow kind of way. The point I would make is that I firmly believe that you have to lay yourself down in order for someone to step on you. My best friend is in a wheelchair and I can guarantee that she doesn't feel "unattractive" or see herself as "inferior". If you want the world to love you, I think you set yourself up for disappointment. On the counterside, what if you are hated just because you seeminly possess these "attractive" traits? Life isn't fair. If it was we would all be clones.

 

[ndn cat]

As they say, beauty is only skin deep. But the media is responsible for getting into our mind and making both men and women beautiful by their looks/body shape and that is only one part of a person. Magazines, posters and commercials. They don't use a heavy person to show off clothing, now do they? They even teach our children to try to be beautiful looking. But the belief should be in the beholder. I say screw you and your little dog too. Accept me for what I am.

 

[slant]

I agree that much of what you said seems true in a shallow kind of way. The point I would make is that I firmly believe that you have to lay yourself down in order for someone to step on you. My best friend is in a wheelchair and I can guarantee that she doesn't feel "unattractive" or see herself as "inferior". If you want the world to love you, I think you set yourself up for disappointment. On the counterside, what if you are hated just because you seeminly possess these "attractive" traits? Life isn't fair. If it was we would all be clones.

I'm not saying that what the outside says reflects in the inner. But I'm saying, if you ask your friend, can she honestly tell you she doesn't think other people see her as inferior because of her disability? Can she honestly say that everyone sees her as the same and doesn't ask about her being a wheelchair and see it as uncommon/unattractive, etc.?

There is a seriously negative attitude towards people in wheelchairs. While one person can keep a positive inner attitude it doesn't stop the outer image from being a constant burden. I'm pretty sure if you ask her if she's ever been discriminated against, her response will not be 'no'.

 

[Nixie]

Yea, my friend kicks ass. She doesn't let anything stop her and is seriously independant. I find it hard to keep up with her. She doesn't live her life expecting any help and she doesn't see herself as inferior because she had to adapt herself to the world. I have heard her talk of having to make sure her plans include whether stuff is accessable but she takes that burden upon herself to make sure that she can get where she needs to go and do what she needs to do.

 

[slant]

Yea, my friend kicks ass. She doesn't let anything stop her and is seriously independant. I find it hard to keep up with her. She doesn't live her life expecting any help and she doesn't see herself as inferior because she had to adapt herself to the world. I have heard her talk of having to make sure her plans include whether stuff is accessable but she takes that burden upon herself to make sure that she can get where she needs to go and do what she needs to do.

That doesn't address my question. Which is fine, if you don't want to answer it, but I'm just confused at why you answered it like that if you -were- even answering it. We might be thinking two different things here.

 

[Nixie]

I guess because I interpreted the thrust of your stance as being--She thinks she is "less than" because she is different. My friend understands she is different, she just doesn't see that as a negative. She makes accomodations and accepts responsibility for getting where she needs to get without fanfare.

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

There are incredibly good-looking people who are actually nice and have great personalities. No unattractive person would stand a chance against someone like that, no matter what a good person they were.

True dat True dat

 

[Detective Conan]

It doesn't necessarily have to be about attention. It can be about love. Everyone needs love at least to some extent, but the knowledge that humans are inherently flawed and shallow, and will instinctively love someone more if they happen to be beautiful, is hard to swallow. Of course looks only go so far. But personality isn't completely self-determined either, and what if you don't have the most likeable personality either? Things like charisma, charm, and the ability to make others laugh aren't attainable for everyone.

It took me a couple of reads to realize you were quoting me on that point. Even by your definition, I'd say it is about attention, because that's usually how love is portrayed. I'll even go further and say it's all about positive attention, because everyone manages to get negative attention, regardless of their physical appearance. If there was no reward for being more attractive than anyone else, then no one would care about it.

I'd also say that one's personality, while not completely self-determined, is self-determined enough for most anyone to attain an attractive personality. Charisma, charm, and humor are within reasonable reach that anyone can attain them. It just takes a non-shallow person to look past physical appearances to see that. However, before closing my post, I'll also say that charisma and charm tend to lean more heavily on a person's physical appearance than their personality. Even humor can, depending on the kind of humor you're referring to.

 

[Detective Conan]

How so? I never really thought about it before, but I would think goofy-looking people would have the advantage in that department. xD

As I said, it depends on the type of humor. If you're going for expressive-based humor, then I think you need to have the appropriate physique to properly execute it, such as an expressive face. However, humor that doesn't lean on the source's expression can certainly be mastered by anyone, regardless of what they look like.

 

[acd]

A better shot of 404 error guy

Not because he's mostly naked but because it's clear to see that he is physically fit and healthy. That is attractive.

This is not sexy to me.
It makes me want to laugh in the way that male strippers are more hilarious than hot.

 

[Jill Hives]

This is not sexy to me.
It makes me want to laugh in the way that male strippers are more hilarious than hot.

LOL Yes. Underwear model pose + Zoolander face.

 

[acd]

That's totally it. The 'Zoolander' face... and the creepy completely shaved crotch.
Dare I say, he's too 'girly'?

 

[Nixie]

I would agree that the mostly nude photo is unattractive as well. I would also add that for some reason I see that tatoo on his hip/waist as "cut here" for some reason...LOL (yea, I know it is a bird)

 

[Fergie]

I didn't find any of them attractive, but I wouldn't mind talking to the first guy. He seems quirky. I like that. I get bored easily. So, a guy has to have some brains to keep me interested. My husband ISTJ is more intelligent than I am. He is witty and keeps me laughing We agree on any topic 75% of the time. The remaining 25% keeps things lively. An average body with great brains can be a winning combination. Fergie