ENTJs & INFJs- why is it always so uncomfortable?

jupiterswoon

jupiterswoon

Permanent Fixture
MBTI
ISFP
Enneagram
3
I don't know if it's just me- but there always seems to be uncomfortable/unpleasant tension with ENTJs. I can't summarize it to a T, but in an attempt to, here goes (if not slightly long-winded):

So, my boyfriend's sister is a stereotypical ENTJ- originally we got along fine, but suddenly, after one brief interaction during a period when I was undergoing immense stress in which she misinterpreted something that I said, she treated me like absolute shit. It was like a switch went off that wouldn't turn back on again....

Fast forward three years later- and now she is cordial but removed, and I find it very difficult to relate with her still. She is now dating another ENTJ, and I have tried to make friends with him, hoping that it might change her mind, but alas to no avail. It turns out that I have a very hard time relating ideas or finding things to talk about with him as well.

My question is: what are other people's takes on ENTJs, and are there any ENTJs on the forum who would like to enlighten me as to what the difference is between us that makes communication so god awful? Is it the Fe? Is it the Ne? What causes this inability to have a regular conversation?

For the record- the focus is more on the ability to relate, and has also happened with other ENTJs besides these two.

I find them dull, uninteresting, materialistic, conceited, know-it-alls, bland and boring conversationalists.

I think they find me too emotive, easily manipulated.... I can't think of any more examples.
 
My former therapist was ENTJ. That may not shed much light into the matter, but I realize that he seems to take expressed words very literally. Same with my ESTJ friend. I'm assuming it's a Te-dominant thing. So when a thought is expressed "incompletely", as many INFJs may often do, it can probably spell disaster.

I have an ENTJ acquaintance who can be fairly cheerful. It appears he doesn't "get along" with many people, but still a very sociable guy. We seem to notice each other on the Ni wavelength, but conversation is practically non-existent between us. I wonder if he may feel slightly ignored or "one-down" when dealing with me: Whereas he has auxiliary Ni, I do not have auxiliary Te, so his Te is virtually being "ignored" by me.

Your sense that he may find you "too emotive" is likely, but my ENTJ acquaintance gets along very well with my ISFJ, who is probably more predictable in his emotional output than I am, whereas I tend to remain smiley until I find occasion to be explosively emotive.

He's rather thorough yet concise in the way he describes things and not lacking in facial friendliness, perhaps because he's an older ENTJ. That makes him interesting. Otherwise, I don't find anything interesting to talk to him about on a one-on-one level.
 
Siriously...now.
ENTJ and ESTJ, I have people of these types in my life. All of them 3 are very important to me. I trust them, I can rely on them and I would let them to drive me in airplane with their eyes closed (ofcourse, they would not do that with closed eyes, specially ESTJ).
But few things I noticed.

1. I value more their special qualities than they do mine (ENTJ more values them, N thing).
2. They like to be bossy and, well, I get alergic reaction to people being bossy with me (unless they are my Chef at work - I love him very much, but he is one of the persons I can't type for now).
3. Hurtful and critical things they say - try to NOT take them personally, ESTJs and ENTJs love to fix the problems and that usually means: be critical and point with fonger to bad things...
 
I'm not sure how to say this in a way that won't be hurtful, but is it possible she lost respect for you?
I'm not suggesting she would have or should have.

I've met a few ENTJs, but I think I've only had the chance to get to know one. For those who understand astrology, she has a typical Libra profile which means she tends to be tactful and has great interpersonal skills. She also makes a fantastic impression on people, knows how to be socially appropriate, thrives on people contact, loves to make jokes, and has tremendous social grace. However, it all seems so superficial because it seems she may not actually understand the complexity of human emotion. It's like she's dumb as shortcake in that regard. She can think her way through a situation, she can impress in social settings and has great charisma, and she can advise well and make it seem as though she's got everything figured out but only if it doesn't involve emotional complexity.

Personally, while she's quite charming at first, I'm beginning to find the constant jokes and more cut-throat approach tiring. The fact that she is so certain of her convictions and confident in her ideas about things can also be a turn-off when she's unaware of certain aspects of human behaviour and doesn't take the effort to explore them the way NFs, particularly NFPs, may. Maybe life, to her, is somewhat of a contest or competition. I don't know if that's the case but I'm contemplating it more and more.

I'm of the mind that even if confident of one's position, it behooves us to remain aware of and committed to the possibility that we may not be right, and to be okay with that.
 
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My father's an ENTJ, and I'm an INFJ... been that way for 35 years now. Part of the way we get along is a) find the same humor in things and b) knowing what not to say. I'm sure if we weren't related there would be some rather strange moments that would leave us not talking to one another. My mother though, is an INFJ and the two of them have managed to stay together for 40 or so years.

It seems that a lot of the effort needs to be taken on the ENTJ's part; not to have that knee-jerk reaction to things and to actually stop and listen to the people around them. Once those are in check, we get along just fine - I've also learned what subjects to not say around him and how to bring up sensitive topics. It takes a hell of a lot of prodding, hinting and easing him into a situation to not create an explosion of some type. I also don't argue ideological issues with him unless he's the one who brings them up.

ENTJ's (as far as I can tell) like having things, especially people proven to them. You need to earn their respect, prove you're trustworthy, a hard worker, etc. Words don't go very far with them and emotional pleas don't do much either.
 
Jana said:
Siriously...now.
ENTJ and ESTJ, I have people of these types in my life. All of them 3 are very important to me. I trust them, I can rely on them and I would let them to drive me in airplane with their eyes closed (ofcourse, they would not do that with closed eyes, specially ESTJ).
But few things I noticed.

1. I value more their special qualities than they do mine (ENTJ more values them, N thing).
2. They like to be bossy and, well, I get alergic reaction to people being bossy with me (unless they are my Chef at work - I love him very much, but he is one of the persons I can't type for now).
3. Hurtful and critical things they say - try to NOT take them personally, ESTJs and ENTJs love to fix the problems and that usually means: be critical and point with fonger to bad things...
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I'm not hating on them, there's also a lot of attributes I like about them too, but I think that fundamentally it comes down to simple misunderstandings.

I would agree completely with the three things that you listed.
 
Soulful said:
I'm not sure how to say this in a way that won't be hurtful, but is it possible she lost respect for you?
I'm not suggesting she would have or should have.

I've met a few ENTJs, but I think I've only had the chance to get to know one. For those who understand astrology, she has a typical Libra profile which means she tends to be tactful and has great interpersonal skills. She also makes a fantastic impression on people, knows how to be socially appropriate, thrives on people contact, loves to make jokes, and has tremendous social grace. However, it all seems so superficial because it seems she may not actually understand the complexity of human emotion. It's like she's dumb as shortcake in that regard. She can think her way through a situation, she can impress in social settings and has great charisma, and she can advise well and make it seem as though she's got everything figured out but only if it doesn't involve emotional complexity.

Personally, while she's quite charming at first, I'm beginning to find the constant jokes and more cut-throat approach tiring. The fact that she is so certain of her convictions and confident in her ideas about things can also be a turn-off when she's unaware of certain aspects of human behaviour and doesn't take the effort to explore them the way NFs, particularly NFPs, may. Maybe life, to her, is somewhat of a contest or competition. I don't know if that's the case but I'm contemplating it more and more.

I'm of the mind that even if confident of one's position, it behooves us to remain aware of and committed to the possibility that we may not be right, and to be okay with that.
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Hey Soulful, in no way does that sound hurtful, it's true what you are saying, and I can understand her side as well. I guess the only problem was that she never tried to understand my side, or bring it up and talk about it. She just completely refused to acknowledge my presence, and to also possibly resolve the issue. I did get along with her pretty well before the incident. I think NFs tend to be more resolute to solving problems with relationships, whereas ENTJs don't care as much. It was awkward because later on she did try to make nice with me, but it was just incredibly hard for me to even want to be friends with her, because I felt like I couldn't just "turn that switch back on".


Your description sounds ridiculously accurate btw.
 
jupiterswoon said:
Hey Soulful, in no way does that sound hurtful, it's true what you are saying, and I can understand her side as well. I guess the only problem was that she never tried to understand my side, or bring it up and talk about it. She just completely refused to acknowledge my presence, and to also possibly resolve the issue. I did get along with her pretty well before the incident. I think NFs tend to be more resolute to solving problems with relationships, whereas ENTJs don't care as much. It was awkward because later on she did try to make nice with me, but it was just incredibly hard for me to even want to be friends with her, because I felt like I couldn't just "turn that switch back on".

Your description sounds ridiculously accurate btw.
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Thanks. I'm glad it made sense, although not at all glad you can relate to it in the context in which you find yourself.
Company can be such a tricky thing.

I think I can understand the switch. People are fine to me until they are not. Once something's been done, the way I feel about them changes. It is like a switch. And unfortunately I can't undo the loss of respect or the loss of esteem I feel for them.

I wonder if compassion might be a helpful mindset to adopt in this instance, and if it would make it easier for you to feel positive toward her and/or to move yourself into a difference space from the one which the "switch" shifted you into.

If you're in a rut when trying to have a conversation, is she someone who enjoys talking about herself and her day? Perhaps offering an ear and asking her about her day, her job, her ideas about something... and then guiding the conversation through occasional questions that will have her talking? I've heard most people love to talk about themselves and appreciate being heard in this way. Perhaps in time, she'll appreciate your inquiries, and perhaps knowing her better may make it easier for you to feel more comfortable toward her.

I hope this makes sense and is at least a bit helpful. It's late and I feel I'm doing nothing more than rambling at this point. I hope not, but I do apologize if that's the case!
 
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Soulful said:
Thanks. I'm glad it made sense, although not at all glad you can relate to it in the context in which you find yourself.
Company can be such a tricky thing.

I think I can understand the switch. People are fine to me until they are not. Once something's been done, the way I feel about them changes. It is like a switch. And unfortunately I can't undo the loss of respect or the loss of esteem I feel for them.

I wonder if compassion might be a helpful mindset to adopt in this instance, and if it would make it easier for you to feel positive toward her and/or to move yourself into a difference space from the one which the "switch" shifted you into.

If you're in a rut when trying to have a conversation, is she someone who enjoys talking about herself and her day? Perhaps offering an ear and asking her about her day, her job, her ideas about something... and then guiding the conversation through occasional questions that will have her talking? I've heard most people love to talk about themselves and appreciate being heard in this way. Perhaps in time, she'll appreciate your inquiries, and perhaps knowing her better may make it easier for you to feel more comfortable toward her.

I hope this makes sense and is at least a bit helpful. It's late and I feel I'm doing nothing more than rambling at this point. I hope not, but I do apologize if that's the case!
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I guess that this whole thread has just made me realize that in my personal life I am so used to dealing/interacting with people who are one such a similar wave-length to me, that I got kind of spoiled. Or, perhaps I am just more comfortable resolving issues as opposed to letting things lie.

I should just do something similar to what I would do at any normal social gathering with a bunch of strangers, and just talk that way. I think that your advice to just strike up conversations in that way would be the best advice to give. That way a conversation can be started based on new things.
 
jupiterswoon said:
I guess that this whole thread has just made me realize that in my personal life I am so used to dealing/interacting with people who are one such a similar wave-length to me, that I got kind of spoiled.
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Wow, that could be right. I know exactly what you mean. There are people in my life to whom I can talk, well, the way I do here at forum, similar topics and style of communication. Trying that with some other people usually gets me "???" look from them.
Examples...
my ESTJ friend - I even have posts on that somewhere; in past I tried to talk about personal things in emotional way and I would get answer like that: Yesterday, I went to sale in mall and found great thing for your present...As if she did not heard all that thing about me feeling bad or down...In time I took her topics and guess what I get - some rather emotional comments. I think we trained each other, haha.
my ESTJ brother - he is great, he helped me even when I don't ask him anything. Example of perfect big brother. But, if I tell him something like that, he somehow convert conversation into joke (joke is usually about me, :D
 
I highly value and treasure one of my close female friends who is ENTJ E8, though their enthusiasm in idea planning and solution-oriented approach can be tiring sometimes.
 
I am an ENTJ and I know that when I turn the switch it's because something that was said to me violated one of my ground rules. Once the switch turns it cannot be undone. So don't bother trying. Sorry for the honesty but I wanted to give you actionable feedback.
 
I was about to type what gionnetto did, but perhaps I try to give more feedback. I assume that she is truly ENTJ and therefore this post will be useful then.

ENTJ are very very strong analytical person. And they are FACT-based and efficient person. The short answer to the question is that you appear unworthy to her. However, I give you shortcut: find out more about her, find out what she is not good (but interested), try to be a master of it, and show it to her. Then you'll see a little difference. Try to not to show your feeling too much. Because the more you show your Fe, the more she will feel responsible to adjust it logically (Te).

I guess if I was her then the best thing I could do is to do nothing. Because I know that what I do will only aggravate situation. I am so sorry if these sentences are hurtful.
 
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In highschool I had a close Entj friend. She even opened up to me and talked about crushes she had on guys, about romancy kinda future dreams etc. All the things you would suspect dont exist in an Entj! :m2:

I think there are 2 reasons why it stopped working:

1. Even though she had that hidden softer side, I opened up too and I suspect it was too much for her to take.

2. She was so insensitive sometimes! She could say very mean things to me. Im not sure if she did that on purpose or not. Guess not really, but the damage was done.
 
jupiterswoon said:
My question is: what are other people's takes on ENTJs, and are there any ENTJs on the forum who would like to enlighten me as to what the difference is between us that makes communication so god awful? Is it the Fe? Is it the Ne? What causes this inability to have a regular conversation?

For the record- the focus is more on the ability to relate, and has also happened with other ENTJs besides these two.

I find them dull, uninteresting, materialistic, conceited, know-it-alls, bland and boring conversationalists.

I think they find me too emotive, easily manipulated.... I can't think of any more examples.
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You might want to look into socionics intertype relations. They predict relations of Supervision between Te-Ni type and Ni-Fe type (in socionics these are called ENTj/LIE and INFp/IEI, because socionics doesn't use j/p same way as MBTI over there INFJ becomes INFp). The Supervisor in these relations is the ENTJ and the Supervisee is the INFJ. The Supervisor, not knowing it, exerts constant pressure on the Supervisee with their leading function, which happens to be the most vulnerable function in the Supervisee. There is a more detailed description of it here - relations of Supervision

The relationship is attractive for both parties, especially the type in Supervisee role. It's alright for friendship but usually not recommended for very close relations. The Supervisee feels stifled by the Supervisor and needs a break periodically, otherwise conflict is inevitable.

I've also heard that it helps to avoid talking about topics that touch on ethics and instead talk more about conceptual, intellectual topics. This is because INFJs and ENTJs share Ni and Se, but their ethical functions are completely different - Fe which is creative function of INFJ is a frustrating, even painful function for ENTJs. Brush your ENTJ too many times with some Fe by reprimanding him/her over some social faux pas or insisting on talking about moral/ethical topics, and they are likely to get offended and stop talking to you or simply get bored.
 
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Hello all, first time ENTJ here :) . I would request that you all refrained from killing me with fire if you can for a bit. I realize that what I am about to say is going to be interpreted by many of you as being cold and harsh, but there is no way to avoid this so let me just start by apologizing.
1) I'm assuming you were under a lot of stress so you did that "unreasonable emotional breakdown/explosion" thing that runs in the INFJ family. If this is the case then she has blacklisted you. Try to understand, to her mind you represent an emotional problem. ENTJs ONLY understand analysis. We don't understand feelings (I mean I read some of the things on this page and it blew my mind.) An emotional problem is no different from any other to us, we try to solve it through cold, hard calculation. Eventually an ENTJ will reach a point in their life where they will either accept that they are VERY bad with emotions (vast majority) and will stay as far away as possible from emotional problems. The very small percentage of us left try to indulge in this whole "emotional complexity" world (where I'm at now.) To her you are an emotional problem that she would rather not waste her time trying to deal with because she doesn't know how from past experience. If reason didn't work with you before then it won't work next time around.
2) I would strongly urge you to not pursue this further because (me being an ENTJ) sees a lot of effort and a fairly slim chance of success with a "real" future relationship. But if you insist I will provide you with as accurate and comprehensive a solution as I know how.
3) Earn back your respect. Yes I know, respect should be awarded to all people of all ages because that's the way it works in your head. Not in ours. Respect is a measure or worth to us. We respect things based on our evaluation of what they are worth to us personally, or what they are worth to the rest of humanity. For example if we rewind a few hundred years, an ENTJ would respect a slave that did his job well FAR more than he would respect a prince who didn't contribute to society. You have lost your respect and you have to earn it back by proving that (a) you are a contributor to society. (b) you can benefit the ENTJ using your position or your intellect. (c) you can hold your own in an argument. Option (c) I would recommend to almost anyone EXCEPT for an INFJ. You guys make great points, but take things WAY too personal for the discussion to really go anywhere. However option c is definitely the easiest out of the options so here's a few pointers.
the goal of the argument is not to hurt anyone or prove anything, it's to develop a theory and help the ENTJ grow intellectually and hone their people-skills (although you guys might disagree that we even have people skills).
-because the aim is purely analytical, nothing... I mean NOTHING is to be taken personally in a debate. Taking things personally clouds judgment and leads to a weaker case and it shows.
- you have to be good. Don't talk about something unless you are convinced of it and you have a solid groundwork upon which to build a case. Weak base means weak structure and guess what? Yup, it shows.
How to maintain the relationship after respect is obtained:
Most of the work must be done on the ENTJs side, but they have to be convinced that it is worthwhile work. Basically the way a successful relationship works is the ENTJ respects an invisible (to them) emotional boundary with the INFJ. If the ENTJ ever slips and crosses this emotional line (which is inevitable and realistically, often) it then falls upon the INFJ to NOT TAKE IT PERSONAL. The ENTJ is not saying things to hurt you. They don't know what will hurt you and what won't. They have a rough idea but not a finite line. If they cross it you must understand they are not intentionally trying to hurt you, rather they are plundering blindly through the murky waters of the emotional world (which don't forget they're doing for you in the first place.)
5) how do you convince the ENTJ to respect an emotional boundary? Show them that it is worth their while. Show them what a relationship with you has to offer, and then point them towards studying their own personality type. ENTJ is a great personality type to have. We are extremely successful at management and education and our emotional world entails about 5 separate emotions and life is simple and grand. However any ENTJ that does a bit of research as well as some self-reflecting will realize their major weakness. Emotional health. If we doing attend to our emotional well-being it'll potentially cause us major problems down the line. The only option we have is to have some emotionally charged individuals surround us (ones that we can actually stand) and learn from them. Point them towards this and prove that you are that tolerable emotionally-charged individual and then explain that in order for the relationship to work there must be a boundary.

That is as good advice as I know how to give. I hope it helps in aiding your escape, recovery, or indulgence.
---Dommy
Oh I completely forgot to address your last question, why is conversation awful. From the INFJs perspective I imagine it's awful. From the ENTJs perspective awful doesn't even come remotely close to it. It's because you're pitting 2 (steriotypically) extremely smart people who have complete opposite outlooks on life. INFJs value people, ENTJs value anything that gets the job done efficiently. We are analysts and you are poets. We want to mount leadership and raise humanity to new heights and you would like to do that but aren't really going to do it because you're unwilling to make the cold, calculations that it takes to reach there. The way I see it, ENTJs become leaders faster than you can blink, and we make pretty good leaders. INFJs don't get into leadership positions because they can't get there. If they were leaders they wouldn't be very good ones. But one thing they definitely do good in, is keeping the ENTJ leader from becoming a power-hungry dictator or a government that tries to control the internet. It's almost like INFJ's fight the good fight, while ENTJs just fight. We're better at fighting, but much worse at gearing it. The worst for us is when we know we are talking to an INFJ. We seem to have a tendency of making you guys break down emotionally, so having a discussion of substance with you is extremely difficult because we have to walk on eggshells and we don't delve too far into uncharted waters. We don't really know what will set you off so we would rather just not talk.
 
I love this topic! My brother is an ENTJ, and he and I butt heads quite often. My boss is also an ENTJ and he and I do quite well together. ENTJ's are described as Entrepreneurs, born CEO's, etc. I think that when this personality type has the role of boss in your life, it's an easier road / better dynamics. I accept my boss' authority and position - he's also brilliant at what he does and I have very little interest or knowledge in his field. I'm an Executive Assistant, so I think our roles complement one another and there's mutual respect.

One of the most helpful things I ever read about ENTJ's was that when they know something, they know it cold. They converse with and take an interest in others oftentimes to glean information and when the other person is not seemingly confident about what they know then the ENTJ will question or doubt them. I thrive best when I'm encouraged to talk and drawn out with kindly interest. So, at times I find this doubtful approach patronizing and incredibly irritating. A recent example: Being told that my OPINION about a city that I'd traveled to was wrong even though my brother had never been there himself. Profile also said something about how ENJT's would be wise to realize that just because someone doesn't shout their knowledge from the mountaintops it doesn't mean that they do not have any accurate knowledge to share. That being said, there was another more positive aspect to the ENTJ that I've found to be very true and interesting. It said that they generally are not sentimental or overly tender, but they have that sort of soft underbelly and will feel very sentimental towards a chosen few. So, if you're privileged enough to be very loved by an ENTJ, they will feel and act towards you in a very different and at times tender way. The profile mentioned that the ENTJ is not entirely comfortable feeling this way, so they may be awkward and uncomfortable about it at times.

Just a small snippet from online description that I found interesting below. My conclusion from this - enjoy ENTJ's for what they are, realizing they are not going to be a good EMOTIONAL resource for sensitive, gentle INFJ's, but there can still be love & mutual respect (agreeing to disagree is KEY! or just nodding and smiling sometimes).

"Naturally, ENTJ friends may find it quite difficult to support other people on an emotional level. Dealing with feelings is certainly not their strongest suit and they are likely to try to avoid emotionally charged situations. ENTJs enjoy challenging their friends and questioning their conclusions, which is usually the opposite of being sensitive — and not many personality types can cope with this. Feeling (F) types are especially vulnerable to criticism and tend to take it very personally."

Here's link with great info about ENTJ strengths & weaknesses:
http://www.16personalities.com/entj-strengths-and-weaknesses
 
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