Enneagram and the Emotionally Abused Types | INFJ Forum

Enneagram and the Emotionally Abused Types

Tulip

Community Member
Aug 22, 2009
272
38
0
MBTI
Exempted
Enneagram
Type me
I came across an article with lists of characteristics of emotionally abused people. They appear to overlap with the traits of a number of Enneagram types:

http://eqi.org/signs_of_emotionally_abused_people.htm

There have been debates over whether Enneagram types are inborn or developed during the early stages of a life.
If Enneagram types are inborn, do you think emotionally abusive experience forms other part of a person's personality outside of their primary type and will affect how they come across to others?

What if the person experiences prolonged emotional abuse at a later stage in life other than the formative years?

What is Emotional Abuse?

Abuse is any behavior that is designed to control and subjugate another human being through the use of fear, humiliation, intimidation, guilt, coercion, manipulation etc. Emotional abuse is any kind of abuse that is emotional rather than physical in nature. It can include anything from verbal abuse and constant criticism to more subtle tactics, such as repeated disapproval or even the refusal to ever be pleased.

Emotional abuse is like brain washing in that it systematically wears away at the victim's self-confidence, sense of self-worth, trust in their own perceptions, and self-concept. Whether it is done by constant berating and belittling, by intimidation, or under the guise of "guidance," "teaching", or "advice," the results are similar. Eventually, the recipient of the abuse loses all sense of self and remnants of personal value. Emotional abuse cuts to the very core of a person, creating scars that may be far deeper and more lasting that physical ones. In fact there is research to this effect. With emotional abuse, the insults, insinuations, criticism and accusations slowly eat away at the victim's self-esteem until she is incapable of judging the situation realistically. She has become so beaten down emotionally that she blames herself for the abuse. Her self-esteem is so low that she clings to the abuser.

Emotional abuse victims can become so convinced that they are worthless that they believe that no one else could want them. They stay in abusive situations because they believe they have nowhere else to go. Their ultimate fear is being all alone.

http://eqi.org/eabuse1.htm
 
Last edited:
If Enneagram types are inborn, do you think emotionally abusive experience forms other part of a person's personality outside of their primary type and will affect how they come across to others?

My sense is yes, this occurs. That said, the change is an altered expression of the base characteristic, not a wholly new characteristic, and varies based on the nature of the abuse, the child's temperment, and so on.

What if the person experiences prolonged emotional abuse at a later stage in life other than the formative years?

That depends on the nature of the abuse, the temperment, skills, and resources of the abused individual, the development of that individual, and more things than I can even think to list.

If you mean abuse after individuation, then my sense is no, I don't think it will have much affect at all on personality, at least as it concerns development. Expression thereof is an entirely different manner, but at the same time, I don't think it particularly valuable to assess the nature of personality if pathology is present.


cheers,
Ian
 
If you mean abuse after individuation, then my sense is no, I don't think it will have much affect at all on personality, at least as it concerns development. Expression thereof is an entirely different manner, but at the same time, I don't think it particularly valuable to assess the nature of personality if pathology is present.

I get the sense that emotional abuse is something more subtle than physical abuse. It is hard to say to what extent the damage is done for it to be considered as presence of pathology. To some people, they may not even be aware that they have been emotionally abused.

Some people may appear to be conflict avoidant, have low self-esteem, terrified of rejection, do not express what they want, easily intimidated by aggressive people and personal criticism, perfectionistic, live life as victims, feel different from others... How do you differentiate which are part of their personality and which are the effect of the abuse?

I have been thinking looking at a few traits alone probably very easily lead to mistyping.

You cannot say a person that is pessimistic, has low self-esteem, is uneasy around other people especially authority figures, has feelings of insecurity, who is so terrified of rejection or abandonment that they tend to stay in situations or relationships that are harmful to them, and remains loyal in situations and relationships even when evidence indicates their loyalty is undeserved...is necessarily a phobic Six.

You also cannot say a person who is perfectionistic, judge themselves and others harshly...is necessarily a One.

And you cannot say a person who feels different from others, is afraid of being abandoned, and lives life as victim...is necessarily a Four.

If genes determine the primary Enneagram type and life experiences determine wings and tritype, one can argue that a person's wings and tritypes can to a certain extent be changed...even at a later stage in life.
 
I get the sense that emotional abuse is something more subtle than physical abuse.

From the external perspective, I agree. From the internal perspective, based on my experience, it is not more subtle - if anything, it is something altogether greater and more insidious.

It is hard to say to what extent the damage is done for it to be considered as presence of pathology. To some people, they may not even be aware that they have been emotionally abused.

Yea, pathology is the domain of someone trained, and is determined through consult and assessment.

Some people may appear to be conflict avoidant, have low self-esteem, terrified of rejection, do not express what they want, easily intimidated by aggressive people and personal criticism, perfectionistic, live life as victims, feel different from others... How do you differentiate which are part of their personality and which are the effect of the abuse?

Through evaluation of their self-report, their history, other presenting behaviors, cortisol testing, other biological testing to rule out neurological and hormonal system disruption, and so on.

I have been thinking looking at a few traits alone probably very easily lead to mistyping.

Agreed. That is why determination of personality type for the Enneagram (and other systems) is not a casual affair. The requisite degree of analysis necessitates consideration of traits, perspectives, values, and so on from within multiple contexts.

You cannot say a person that is pessimistic, has low self-esteem, is uneasy around other people especially authority figures, has feelings of insecurity, who is so terrified of rejection or abandonment that they tend to stay in situations or relationships that are harmful to them, and remains loyal in situations and relationships even when evidence indicates their loyalty is undeserved...is necessarily a phobic Six.

You also cannot say a person who is perfectionistic, judge themselves and others harshly...is necessarily a One.

And you cannot say a person who feels different from others, is afraid of being abandoned, and lives life as victim...is necessarily a Four.

Well, you could - it's just that you'd likely be in error.

If genes determine the primary Enneagram type and life experiences determine wings and tritype, one can argue that a person's wings and tritypes can to a certain extent be changed...even at a later stage in life.

Sure. That said, I don't know what determines primary Enneagram type, genes or otherwise, and I don't particularly value or ascribe to the idea of wing theory, so I won't even venture to comment on it.


cheers,
Ian
 
From the external perspective, I agree. From the internal perspective, based on my experience, it is not more subtle - if anything, it is something altogether greater and more insidious.

What I meant by subtle is something not so much of a clear cut whether it is an emotional abuse. It could just be an one-off incident. Even if it has become a recurring pattern, the person himself may not be aware that he is being abused. Say if the person has his feelings constantly being invalidated (e.g. http://eqi.org/invalid.htm) - either being denied, ignored, minimized or diminished, and that other people's feelings have been put above his. He may experience feeling of inferiority, decrease in the sense of self-worth, being brainwashed to adopt the values and perceptions of the abuser...but he may not be aware that he is actually being abused.

Sure. That said, I don't know what determines primary Enneagram type, genes or otherwise, and I don't particularly value or ascribe to the idea of wing theory, so I won't even venture to comment on it.

Why do you not ascribe to the idea of wing theory? Is it in your experience that it does not apply to you?
 
Last edited:
If you mean abuse after individuation, then my sense is no, I don't think it will have much affect at all on personality, at least as it concerns development. Expression thereof is an entirely different manner, but at the same time, I don't think it particularly valuable to assess the nature of personality if pathology is present.


cheers,
Ian

Emotional abuse I frequently ponder. Hm.

I think the contrary is the case. After individuation a proficient abuser can destroys an already established reality framework, leaving behind little more than a dysfunctional wreck. Before there are raw materials much easier to access which can be used transform all experiences into a cohesive and workable framework of perception and cognition. The experience becomes part of the core personality then, and that doesn't have to be a bad thing. Most people growing up like Ted Bundy do not become Ted Bundy. The abused, most often, does not become an abuser. I see it almost like an immunization. An awareness where others without prior experience have none. Defenses where others have none. The materials of experience and growth are there. It depends on the individual what they make of it as they grow into maturity.

At some point, and I think this would be much easier after rather than before individuation, growth can stop, and can be stopped, in others. Then you can point at what drives it. What motivations, what needs, what memories, associations. Undermine, question, make them the enemy or cut them away entirely. Crush under foot. And without growth, without drive, there is no healing. Just being broken, stationary. Kind of makes me appreciate puberty a lot more. Natures forced biological growth spurt, in more than in one sense.

Heh, natures really annoying healing spell.

You also have to consider that most people don't have the ability to easily observe and fiddle around with their inner workings, that most people are cut off from the pieces that actually make them tick. They'll pay attention to the hand doing the magic trick unaware of the other hand that digs its fingers into their brain.

Infjs, I would wager, are A LOT more aware about how they are affected by something internally than most other types.
 
The abused, most often, does not become an abuser. I see it almost like an immunization. An awareness where others without prior experience have none. Defenses where others have none. The materials of experience and growth are there. It depends on the individual what they make of it as they grow into maturity.

Abusing is not a healthy behaviour. Abusive people most likely learn to be abusive from emotionally abusive environments as a way to cope with their own feelings and problems. They may or may not be aware that they are being abusive.

The abused and the abuser are actually two sides of the same coin. People who have been abused are more prone to become an abuser. It is hard to imagine a person who have been nutured in a loving, healthy and functional family would grow up to be an abuser.
 
Last edited:
Emotional abuse I frequently ponder. Hm.

I think the contrary is the case. After individuation a proficient abuser can destroys an already established reality framework, leaving behind little more than a dysfunctional wreck. Before there are raw materials much easier to access which can be used transform all experiences into a cohesive and workable framework of perception and cognition. The experience becomes part of the core personality then, and that doesn't have to be a bad thing. Most people growing up like Ted Bundy do not become Ted Bundy. The abused, most often, does not become an abuser. I see it almost like an immunization. An awareness where others without prior experience have none. Defenses where others have none. The materials of experience and growth are there. It depends on the individual what they make of it as they grow into maturity.

At some point, and I think this would be much easier after rather than before individuation, growth can stop, and can be stopped, in others. Then you can point at what drives it. What motivations, what needs, what memories, associations. Undermine, question, make them the enemy or cut them away entirely. Crush under foot. And without growth, without drive, there is no healing. Just being broken, stationary. Kind of makes me appreciate puberty a lot more. Natures forced biological growth spurt, in more than in one sense.

Heh, natures really annoying healing spell.

You also have to consider that most people don't have the ability to easily observe and fiddle around with their inner workings, that most people are cut off from the pieces that actually make them tick. They'll pay attention to the hand doing the magic trick unaware of the other hand that digs its fingers into their brain.

Infjs, I would wager, are A LOT more aware about how they are affected by something internally than most other types.

Did you experience emotional abuse as a child, or are you simply exploring the topic theoretically? I will say, as someone who experienced chronic emotional abuse as a child, I think you minimize the consequences and idealize the strengths of emotional abuse prior to individuation.

I do not think that emotional abuse after individuation is any less destructive, but I do believe it could be a very different experience--which I sense you agree with. My sense is that perhaps you have more personal familiarity with the traumatic effects of emotional abuse in someone after individuation and so your preference is toward the destructiveness of it at this point. Yet I think you grossly misjudge the reactive abilities of an abused child prior to individuation and have little to no concept of how misshapen and non-functional a psychological framework built out of childhood abuse actually can be. All experiences would have differences, yet the sort of psychological heroism you describe, allowing the child to identify abuse and re-frame it healthily, would not be typical, based on my own experience, the experience as shared with me by others, and on my understanding of research on the topic. I don't disagree that abuse prior to individuation is often the source of creation of some sort of protective ego armor carried in adulthood, but again, I think you grossly misunderstand this defensive mechanism's future health and functionality. It's like a cancer has invaded a normal immune function and made it overactive. It can develop to see threat in everything. As this defensive mechanism attacks everything external and within, it leaves nothing untouched with which to stably function in the world. There is no solid sense of self absent the gaping holes of doubt created by constant ongoing internalized attack. Everything becomes tainted with doubt and insecurity. Everything is threatening. Even yourself. Especially yourself.

I understand the original question because I seem a type 6. Perhaps I even am. Yet, would I have been?

I seem an infj and use an Fe style of decision making. Yet is that because my childhood abuse prevented me from forming a stable sense of self that I could rely on for decision-making and so I only feel safe in a decision when I receive external sources of confirmation? Chicken and egg perhaps. Maybe I am an infj, and so the particular manifestation of my misshapen sense of self is that my natural Fe decision making style became warped and overactive. On the other hand, maybe I identify with infj MBTI type because my abused sense of self believes it can't be trusted and so turned to a decision making style that has similarities with a healthy Fe style, but absent the abuse I would have developed very differently. Who knows? I accept that this is my reality. What more can I do, really?

Also, as mentioned, while not every abused child becomes an abuser, it is a common factor among abusive parents. Given this, the long-term effects of emotional abuse prior to individuation cannot be dismissed simply because many abused children do not become abusive as adults. I suspect most children who were abused have that abuse as a factor in their social and familial interaction style to some degree or another, whether it is a re-enactment of those abusive engagement styles, a phobic avoidance of those engagement styles, or some mingling of the two. Either way, I suspect it is likely a significant factor in the adult presentation of most abused children.

In general, I think you lack understanding of what the experience of having been emotionally abused as a child involves, both in the childhood experience, and in the lingering effects on the adult self. If you were abused as a child, and you were describing your own childhood experience, then I will simply say, our experience was very different.
 
  • Like
Reactions: acd
Abusing is not a healthy behaviour. Abusive people most likely learn to be abusive from emotionally abusive environments as a way to cope with their own feelings and problems. They may or may not be aware that they are being abusive.

The abused and the abuser are actually two sides of the same coin. People who have been abused are more prone to become an abuser. It is hard to imagine a person who have been nutured in a loving, healthy and functional family will grow up to be an abuser.

You're presented with the building blocks of the experience. What you do with that is either healthy or not.

And I don't find that hard to imagine at all. As one may or may not be aware of it even the best of intentions can be destructive. All it takes is a position where someone can be destructive, and being ignorant of having that position, or unaware of consequences of certain behaviors, not understanding of differences in perspective.

I've seen fundamentally good people enter and maintain relationships that were abusive and destructive only because of how different their perceptions, priorities, values and thought processes were. Healthy, loving, functional people creating a dysfunctional family with destructive dynamics just by being not compatible.

And that's just within a context of normality. If you enter the realm of the abnormal you'll find some seriously twisted people and experts in the field saying that there is no easy pattern of what made them what they became. Upbringing, brain dysfunction, endocrine dysfunction, no workable pattern, because in the end it's something that varies from individual to individual, how one responds to the world and the experiences within it.
 
In general, I think you lack understanding of what the experience of having been emotionally abused as a child involves, both in the childhood experience, and in the lingering effects on the adult self. If you were abused as a child, and you were describing your own childhood experience, then I will simply say, our experience was very different.

Then they were different.

Not only do I have experience with it growing up, I have experience with it now, as adult. Emotional abuse is a constant in mind because of the nature of my power exchange relationships. Complete awareness of the damage I could do, the consequences that my action can have and questioning the self and vigilance is something I see as an absolute requirement... and I can see clearly the damage I could do, now.
 
Then they were different.

Not only do I have experience with it growing up, I have experience with it now, as adult. Emotional abuse is a constant in mind because of the nature of my power exchange relationships. Complete awareness of the damage I could do, the consequences that my action can have and questioning the self and vigilance is something I see as an absolute requirement... and I can see clearly the damage I could do, now.

Fine. Then I would ask you to refrain from generalizing your experience to a wider population.

edit: I re-read your post and realized that it's more likely I am the one generalizing experience, and I now see your post in a framework of stating what is possible. I reacted poorly to the post but that is because at first read it seemed to be stating that was general experience of emotional abuse prior to individuation and mine was/is very different.
 
Last edited:
Fine. Then I would ask you to refrain from generalizing your experience to a wider population.

Saying that it's up to the individual is hardly something I would categorize as generalizing.

Edit: Merry Christmas
 
Saying that it's up to the individual is hardly something I would categorize as generalizing.

Edit: Merry Christmas

Merry Christmas to you too. :)

I do want to clarify again, that in re-reading I now see your words differently. I, at first, saw you stating that the experience was something-generally, but now I see you as stating an available potential and it is up to the individual to access that potential.

I don't disagree in principle.

I do feel caution in engaging in that perspective, however, because it seems to come very close to blaming those who were the receivers of abuse for their situation. I think we have a role to play in how we re-shape that pre-individuation experience and I advocate taking ownership of that sense of empowerment, but I caution against looking comparatively at end results and assigning a sort of hierarchy of effort and skill at reorganizing the childhood material of abuse. We all do the best we can with what we have available to us.
 
well the enneagram practice i follow suggests these personality types are in fact in born and regardless of what emotional abuse actually manifests before or after individuation, i would argue this reinforces the repression, or number of integration, found in any enneagram type. this is bc the personality works around what is perceived to happen as opposed to the objective truth of any given situation.

for example; a phobic six is most likely to perceive the cause of the abuse to stem from laziness, as opposed to a 5 who would argue the abuse stemmed from aggression, and an 8 from allowing themselves to be weak and vulnerable.

even if the exposure to emotional abuse was exactly the same, each type will find the explanation to be different bc two different personality types can and often do perceive the same situation differently. and bc we are predisposed to developing the personality in a certain way, i would argue that the direction the personality takes after abuse (if not the degree of significance) would be the same.

i would like to add that coming from an emotionally abusive situation in my own childhood, i have seen the differences in the reasoning of each of my siblings personalities who were also exposed. although i'm not suggesting it was the exact same scenario for each of us, the differences in opinion on the matter follow directly what this theory would suggest.

I suspect most children who were abused have that abuse as a factor in their social and familial interaction style to some degree or another, whether it is a re-enactment of those abusive engagement styles, a phobic avoidance of those engagement styles, or some mingling of the two

also i would agree with this. as crazy as it sounds more often than not the personality looks to recreate the chaos of its childhood whether it be through the victim or abuser role.
 
I don't think enneagram types are inborn... I see them as the expression of a personality type in different life phases.

as crazy as it sounds more often than not the personality looks to recreate the chaos of its childhood whether it be through the victim or abuser role.
This is not crazy sounding at all. In fact, it is what happens when abused children grow up without understanding that their childhood was dysfunctional. When you grow up in an abusive situation thinking it's normal-- it's all you know and so it is perpetuated.
 
Last edited:
In fact, it is what happens when abused children grow up without understanding that their childhood was dysfunctional

well i think those who repeat these unfavorable situations are in fact suffering from problems that fall beneath the conscious level, not so much a lack of awareness of the cycle itself. for example in my own situation merely recognizing the fact i was repeating a circle of abusive relationships did not stop the attraction to them. without help from some outside sources that helped me delve deeper into these issues and eventually integrate/resolve them, i believe i'd still be drawn to them.

i think that people who suffer from these issues more often than not are in fact aware there is a deeper meaning attached to this unhealthy behavior, but are afraid or unsure of what to do about them. this can keep many locked in these circles until they reach a critical point or can get therapy/some sort of guidance.
 
And I don't find that hard to imagine at all. As one may or may not be aware of it even the best of intentions can be destructive. All it takes is a position where someone can be destructive, and being ignorant of having that position, or unaware of consequences of certain behaviors, not understanding of differences in perspective.

I've seen fundamentally good people enter and maintain relationships that were abusive and destructive only because of how different their perceptions, priorities, values and thought processes were. Healthy, loving, functional people creating a dysfunctional family with destructive dynamics just by being not compatible.
Interaction between people happens dynamically. Healthy people should be able to adjust their behavior appropriately based on the responses and reactions from the recipents. For damage to occur, emotional abuse needs to continue with a recurring pattern where the same behavior repeats and the damage deepens.

I can't see how healthy, functional people can create a dysfunctional family and become an abuser without them first becoming dysfunctional and unhealthy. Wouldn't it be normal that healthy and functional people should be able to resolve their incompatibility in healthy and functional ways, (sometimes that would mean separation), other than creating an abusive environment as a by-product?
 
a phobic six is most likely to perceive the cause of the abuse to stem from laziness, as opposed to a 5 who would argue the abuse stemmed from aggression, and an 8 from allowing themselves to be weak and vulnerable.

:confused: I don't think I can follow your logic here. laziness for a Six? aggression for a Five?

i would like to add that coming from an emotionally abusive situation in my own childhood, i have seen the differences in the reasoning of each of my siblings personalities who were also exposed. although i'm not suggesting it was the exact same scenario for each of us, the differences in opinion on the matter follow directly what this theory would suggest.

Even being brought up and exposed in the same abusive environment, each child plays a different role in the family and hence would have received different treatment from the parents. Even if every single one of them have been abused in some way, the method and degree of abuse would still be different...
 
In fact, it is what happens when abused children grow up without understanding that their childhood was dysfunctional. When you grow up in an abusive situation thinking it's normal-- it's all you know and so it is perpetuated.

A dysfunctional environment is far more damaging to a developing child's mind than outsiders can imagine. Their minds have been brainwashed with the perceptions and norms of their family before them being capable of having their own judgement.

It is like living at the bottom of a well. All you know is how it is like in the well. You can look to the top, but all you can see seem far far away and not relate to you in any way...
 
I understand the original question because I seem a type 6. Perhaps I even am. Yet, would I have been?
What Enneagram type would you type yourself as?

Also, as mentioned, while not every abused child becomes an abuser, it is a common factor among abusive parents. Given this, the long-term effects of emotional abuse prior to individuation cannot be dismissed simply because many abused children do not become abusive as adults. I suspect most children who were abused have that abuse as a factor in their social and familial interaction style to some degree or another, whether it is a re-enactment of those abusive engagement styles, a phobic avoidance of those engagement styles, or some mingling of the two. Either way, I suspect it is likely a significant factor in the adult presentation of most abused children.

It is also my observation that most abusive people are unhealthy and mostly have prior experience of being abused in some way, either as a child or as an adult. I don't think an abused person can develop immunity of not being an abuser. It is the matter of whether there exists the trigger of the right environment with the right person and the right chemistry.