Dogmatism Discussion (A) | INFJ Forum

Dogmatism Discussion (A)

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by logan235711, Jan 17, 2013.

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  1. logan235711

    logan235711 Community Member

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    Dogmatism, or being dogmatic, is a position in which a person has beliefs and would accept claims on the basis of a confidence he could never explain (even to himself). (Knowledge Puzzles, Hetherington 1996)

    Is dogmatism ever an intellectual virtue? Can you think of circumstances in which it would help you to gain knowledge?
     
  2. Stu

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    well it beats the shit out of Catmatism. (nuff said)
     
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  3. Rcs6r

    Rcs6r Must be the feeling~
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    [video=youtube_share;Q_1old1orj0]http://youtu.be/Q_1old1orj0[/video]

    Sorry, could not resist.

    The definition of dogmatism that I know of is: n. the tendency to lay down principles as incontrovertibly true, without consideration of evidence or the opinions of others.

    According to that definition, dogmatism doesn't allow for the gain of knowledge since it's like "my truth, based on my personal experiences, is the only truth!" (Actually, that definition doesn't even mention basing the "truth" on personal experiences; you could make up a lie and call it truth.)

    Sounds like intuition. Something stated as true based on intuition, or a hunch? If you believe something is true, would you not question it? And if you don't question things, you never really gain new perspectives or understanding. Probably not an intellectual virtue.
     
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  4. SealHammer

    SealHammer Flying Quesadilla

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    You just described faith. Dogmatic is what Horatio described.

    Neither are intellectual virtues. That said, there are situations I can think of where a little faith is necessary for a desirable outcome. But putting forth a dogmatic point, as in an argument, can be equated to committing a logical fallacy.
    Come to think of it, I can't even recall a case in which I've heard "dogmatic" used in a sense which wasn't pejorative.
     
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  5. Flavus Aquila

    Flavus Aquila Finding My Place in the Sun
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    Dogmatism seems to serve the function of protecting an individual's, or a group's, beliefs from being arbitrarily attacked, dismissed, modified, etc. against their will.

    It seems almost impossible that a belief could become dogmatically held, unless it was first opposed without sufficient reason/evidence to the contrary (ie. arbitrary opposition).
     
  6. Matt3737

    Matt3737 Similes are like songs in love.

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    I disagree with the definition. Dogma is a group ideology. People may be dogmatic in that they are the constituents of such a group, but people can and do change their beliefs over time (they can change membership) whereas an established group changes in membership (group composition), but not in dogma.
     
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  7. Kgal

    Kgal Magic Star Dust
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    I attended a 2.5 day workshop on healing using shaman practices. After a day of it - the teacher addressed the issue that a few people there had not had a non ordinary reality experience yet. She related a story about a person who wished to develop the shamanic healing ability and for over a year never was able to have one either. Throughout the year the teacher kept advising that person to do the drumming meditations and to let go arguing with her left brain "thinking mind".

    LOL The teacher told us she used to argue with her "thinking mind" until one day her helping spirit told her to stop arguing and just agree with it and go on.

    Anyway....it seemed to me it was a sort of "fake it till you make it" advice.

    The Teacher went on to tell us their student finally had a break through and was able to make contact with her helping spirit and have a non ordinary reality experience. From then on the student continued on with her expansion of consciousness and is now able to take journeys both for herself and others for healing.

    From my own experience last year I would say I did something similar. A video randomly came to me produced by Lee Harris called "You Are Love". It is all about using one's heartfelt imagination to love one's self by listening to him and looking at the words/pics on the video as a meditation. As I had grown up with the idea I was not worth loving - I was on a quest to process that baggage up and out of me once and for all. When I tried this video - it resonated with me. I didn't know for a fact that it would work - and I was very skeptical. Yet....when I thought about the effects of the rational mind on me - and my world - I reasoned a change in a different direction made sense. So I sat each night and went through the motions. After doing it for about a month or so - I had an emotional experience that I guess I'd call a breaking of old walls. An opening? Whatever.....it was spectacular! It's hard to describe in words - but I'd say it's as if when the crack happened I saw light streaming through and became excited about that. As I continued doing the video all sorts of new experiences happened with one leading to another which seemed to build and add to my love for myself. As Lee says it: "...it really is incredible how lovable I am.."

    Turns out - he was right. My world has rocked and shows me every day the truth of this.

    Some days I still have trouble accepting the method(s) of how I am receiving my teachings. The analytical side of me brings up skepticism on a regular basis. I try to remember what my Shamanic Healing teacher urged us to do which is to agree with it and "do the journey/meditation anyway". I don't know why...but I can tell you it works.

    Is this a case of dogmatic thinking? In a way it is. For if you ask my analytical mind what the hell is going on it cannot explain it in rational terms. If you ask my mystical mind - it will tell you that I believe in the healing power of Love Energy - for I have direct experience with it on a regular basis and can see the results. Is this scientific? No...because I have no measurements or quantifiable data or metrics. It's what I feel in my body. It's what I "see" in my minds eye.

    All I can tell people is: I used to want to die like all the time - and now I don't. Now I'm not afraid to die and that somehow encourages living to the max. I am very excited to be here! :bounce:
     
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  8. Trifoilum

    Trifoilum find wisdom, build hope.

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    Now, what you're saying and what Horatio's saying are very much different.

    Using your words, a healthy dose of curiosity helps people go far.

    It is not an intellectual virtue in terms of 'wings'; it won't take you anywhere. And for a frightening lot of people, that dogmatism is the beginning and the ending; they made homes, they built churches, they created organizations and run countries.
    But it is an intellectual virtue in terms of 'land'; it's a good start for you to start flying, to start wandering. And to come back when you're tired; and to come down onto and protect yourself during a storm.

    Who knows, you may find a new home later. But it -was- your home.

    Now Horatio described a more.....selfish, or at least self-oriented belief. It can be bad or good, but it's ultimately, your own belief. What your eyes are seeing, what your skin is feeling, and what your mind is creating.
    It does not always mean one is hardheaded, arrogant, putting down on others' belief, conservative, orthodox, a bigot; no.
    But what Horatio mentioned; it mostly flows in a different current to rationalism
     
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