Do you think MBTI and Jung observations are INFJ subjective or incomplete views ?

[LucyJr]

So let's say we gather many guys to "study" and get a first impression on one guy, to describe him. I think we'll get some interesting responses, some of them maybe even contradictory. For example, an ENFP or ENFJ will give me, an INFJ, a certain kind of vibe/impression, while to an ISTJ or ESTP for example, it could be something completely different. What "struck" me to an ENFJ is different for other types reactions.

Given this, how it is related to MBTI and Jung's discoveries ? I think Carl Jung was an INFJ for sure, and Isabel Myers was possibly an INFJ (or INFP). So while I think there is a certain degree of objectivity regarding human behaviour, maybe Jung's and Isabel Myers's insights were perhaps incomplete? I don't know if I would chose the word subjective, but maybe incomplete or one-sided ?

 

[Stu]

Jung was widely derided as overly subjective by the mainstream psycho analytical community of his time. Posit his views of the relationship to of the ego to external and internal objects with the very influential work of Melanie Kline's object relations theory or read DW Winnicot's review of Jung's autobiography to get a sense of how isolated his views really were.

That said he makes it clear in his writings that subjective intuitive thinkers and feelers are prone to loss of objectivity.

Jung ;Psychological Types abridged CW vol 6
P638
Feeling
Introverted feeling is determined principally by the subjective factor. It differs quite as essentially from extraverted feeling as introverted from extraverted thinking. It is extremely difficult to give an intellectual account of the introverted feeling process, or even an approximate description of it, although the peculiar nature of this kind of feeling is very noticeable once one has become aware of it. Since it is conditioned subjectively and is only secondarily concerned with the object, it seldom appears on the surface and is generally misunderstood. It is a feeling which seems to devalue the object, and it therefore manifests itself for the most part negatively. The existence of positive feeling can be inferred only indirectly. Its aim is not is not to adjust itself to the object. but to subordinate it in an unconscious effort to realize the underlying images. It is continually seeking an image which has no existence in reality, but which it has seen in a kind of vision. It glides unheedingly over all objects that do not fit in with its aim. It strives after inner intensity, for which the objects serve at most as a stimulus. The depth of this feeling can only be guessed--it can never be clearly grasped. It makes people silent and difficult of access; it shrinks back like a violet from the brute nature of the object in order to fill the depths of the subject. It comes out with negative judgments or assumes an air of profound indifference as a means of defense.
P639

He also emphasized the transitory nature of the psychological types in that the individual was challenged by life to develop the weaker psychological aspects of themselves and that it was through the weaker aspect that unconscious content moved into consciousness.

 

[Mary Shelley]

I don't think you need a hypothetical for this. We actually observe this on these forums, FaceBook groups, and Google Hangout. Sometimes there are threads of consistency between different people's typing but even then they often come to quite different conclusions.

 

[ThomasJ79]

An accurate assessment of one's own or others' personality may take years of observation to confirm. This is simple because we have masks that we wear in different situations and with different people, and we often hide these from ourselves. We do have certain predispositions that is rooted in our biological composition, but it is not fixed, as we are dynamic and adaptable. It could be that the less dynamic personalities will be easier to type because their behavior is more consistent, but even some of the most consistent people I've known have surprised me. But at some point, even dynamic personalities follow some pattern, whereas behaving dynamically becomes a predictable behavioral trait. Eventually, with enough observations and assessments, one's type can become much more clear. Observations can still be deceiving.

 

[Solongo]

Jung did not concern so much with MBTI as did Isabel Myers. Jung laid the foundation and Isabel improved on it to be used for a psychoanalytical tool.

If you study Jung; you will realize that he felt that all humans have the capacity for all functions and the process of individuation - becoming conscious of our subconscous desires and demons bring more peace and authenticity to the personality than typing one's essence into categories. He was much more concerned with understanding the archetypes and the myth of human development and he spoke much through his own experiences; especially when he hit mid life depression which most of his famous work derived from.

 

[Radiantshadow]

Jung's model of personality describes discrete methods of absorbing and interpreting information. The model itself is expansive and intricate, but currently suffers from blurry definitions and subsequent verification difficulties. There is some work being done by researchers to clarify and ground Jung's model and Meyers' instrument in modern neuroscience which suggests Jung was correct, but neither should be used as a deterministic lens through which to assess, interpret, and predict human behavior. People are complicated.

It should also be noted that the MBTI itself does not account for Jung's individual cognitive functions, the ways they inter-relate, or their similarities. All it does is break the model into dichotomous, two-dimensional pieces, diluting a work of considerable complexity. In other words, the MBTI is not accurate or reliable.