Do people realise the truth about power?

[David Nelson]

This is from a Noam Chomsky book. National governments have always? acted in the interests of the wealthy over ordinary people. Wars were never/rarely about national defense or defending freedom and democracy. Many will know that most conflicts are about maintaining or extending state power and wealth (eg. Iraq war), but it's usually? much more than that. All that matters is maintaining elite privilege and wealth and/or extending it, even if that involves loss of innocent lives. Even fascism wasn't opposed when it didn't challenge other nations wealth and privilege. WW2 has been painted as the "good war" but this is mostly a myth, as these pages explain...

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

This isn't really anything new but rather how things have been for what the past 8,000 years where heads of state were little more than just puppets and it has only gotten to be obvious in the modern day. What really sucks is whenever anyone tries to bring this point up the "correct" thinkers and "correct" persons always pop up to vibe check to keep others from asking any real questions much less pointing out the powers that be behind the curtain. It always ends up being the same elite families and their secret societies at least in the west while in the east things are a little different but more or less the same.

 

[David Nelson]

While nothing new, it does go against everything the mainstream media and establishment puts out. It's not widely know really, except among well read and educated people, even though through the lens of history it isn't at all surprising. It's probably more suprising that so many fall for the propaganda myths which have been drilled into us for many years. If it was widely known about, our politics would be far more radical.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

While nothing new, it does go against everything the mainstream media and establishment puts out. It's not widely know really, except among well read and educated people, even though through the lens of history it isn't at all surprising. It's probably more suprising that so many fall for the propaganda myths which have been drilled into us for many years. If it was widely known about, our politics would be far more radical.

The institutions have been compromised for generations and have only degraded over the decades since. I am honestly surprised sometimes how this can be news to anyone besides those who own the news also own the schools and they own both sides of the political isle.

 

[David Nelson]

It's not a natural order, it's an artificial order. It has been created by man. Corporations are also far more national than we are led to believe. It's also far more national in general. That film looks like propaganda in itself, based on a flawed understanding of capitalism and how the world works. It only serves the staus quo, which could be dismantled if enough people woke up. You seem to fall for these "myths" that are peddled?

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

It's not a natural order, it's an artificial order. It has been created by man. Corporations are also far more national than we are led to believe. It's also far more national in general. That film looks like propaganda in itself, based on a flawed understanding of capitalism and how the world works. It only serves the staus quo, which could be dismantled if enough people woke up. You seem to fall for these "myths" that are peddled?

You got a long ways to go and not much time.

 

[David Nelson]

You got a long ways to go and not much time.

Sure but the current ways are not working very well are they? It's too late not to do anything.

 

[David Nelson]

What is not widely known. Funny how people tend to assume that, but it just isn't so. Is it the thought "I know this, so everyone else must also know it?!" [shakes head]

 

[Moranga]

The control system that blankets humanities ability to perceive the truth has been in place for a long time. They mastered the ability to rewrite history and control the core beliefs that humans base and create their understanding from. Its no ones fault that they cannot see it or are only now starting to see it. You will continue to follow the rails installed in your youth until you truly accept the possibility that everything you know is wrong. 90% will remain stuck behind those veils. Being ignorant to what is going on behind the veils doesn't make their experience any less real. It does not make the love and happiness shared in good times fake. They just lived their lives without understanding. That's why it is almost impossible to make it click.

 

[David Nelson]

The control system that blankets humanities ability to perceive the truth has been in place for a long time. They mastered the ability to rewrite history and control the core beliefs that humans base and create their understanding from. Its no ones fault that they cannot see it or are only now starting to see it. You will continue to follow the rails installed in your youth until you truly accept the possibility that everything you know is wrong. 90% will remain stuck behind those veils. Being ignorant to what is going on behind the veils doesn't make their experience any less real. It does not make the love and happiness shared in good times fake. They just lived their lives without understanding. That's why it is almost impossible to make it click.

Probably also due to the SJ majority who struggle to perceive nuance and shrink from complex politics. Just like how religions provide comforting stories which hypnotise and snag many minds, so a political/historical narrative which chimes with the lives and hopes of the many, will naturally be clinged onto for sure. The Intuitives in power tend to be more ENTP, ENTJ. We need an NF uprising lol, oh we had that with Hitler and Mugabe and Bin Laden lol Good NF ones tend to get crucified (Jesus) or put in prison (Mandela). Maybe Ghandi did well.

 

[Moranga]

Probably also due to the SJ majority who struggle to perceive nuance and shrink from complex politics. Just like how religions provide comforting stories which hypnotise and snag many minds, so a political/historical narrative which chimes with the lives and hopes of the many, will naturally be clinged onto for sure. The Intuitives in power tend to be more ENTP, ENTJ. We need an NF uprising lol, oh we had that with Hitler and Mugabe and Bin Laden lol Good NF ones tend to get crucified (Jesus) or put in prison (Mandela). Maybe Ghandi did well.

I dont really understand the specific differences in types yet. I'm pretty new to mbti and have mainly focused on understanding myself better. I can't say how much that plays into things. I think the manipulation can be effective regardless of type. If the surrounding experience is believable enough there is no convincing needed. The believers will demand it. You may have heard the saying "You are watching a movie". I think it is more true than many realize.

 

[David Nelson]

I dont really understand the specific differences in types yet. I'm pretty new to mbti and have mainly focused on understanding myself better. I can't say how much that plays into things. I think the manipulation can be effective regardless of type. If the surrounding experience is believable enough there is no convincing needed. The believers will demand it. You may have heard the saying "You are watching a movie". I think it is more true than many realize.

I do tend to agree since my understanding only came about by reading books. It’s like a veil was lifted, and things are forever seen differently. No matter the psychology of a person, ignorance is ignorance, especially wrt international politics which one is usually not able to perceive at first hand.

 

[Wyote]

What is not widely known

I think this stuff is pretty widely known at this point tbh.
Maybe in the 90s people were not as aware of the power structure.
But especially today, people are much more aware and pissed off about it.

Awareness doesn't change shit though.
We're all slave workers just trying to survive.
Ain't nobody got time, energy or resources to topple the looney-nati.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

Probably also due to the SJ majority who struggle to perceive nuance and shrink from complex politics. Just like how religions provide comforting stories which hypnotise and snag many minds, so a political/historical narrative which chimes with the lives and hopes of the many, will naturally be clinged onto for sure. The Intuitives in power tend to be more ENTP, ENTJ. We need an NF uprising lol, oh we had that with Hitler and Mugabe and Bin Laden lol Good NF ones tend to get crucified (Jesus) or put in prison (Mandela). Maybe Ghandi did well.

You could go deeper than what the MBTI allows but you won't like what you'll find but anyway this all is still just the surface level and basic that such doesn't allow for high enough resolution so to speak.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

The control system that blankets humanities ability to perceive the truth has been in place for a long time. They mastered the ability to rewrite history and control the core beliefs that humans base and create their understanding from. Its no ones fault that they cannot see it or are only now starting to see it. You will continue to follow the rails installed in your youth until you truly accept the possibility that everything you know is wrong. 90% will remain stuck behind those veils. Being ignorant to what is going on behind the veils doesn't make their experience any less real. It does not make the love and happiness shared in good times fake. They just lived their lives without understanding. That's why it is almost impossible to make it click.

One has to be amazed sometimes how they pulled it all off especially with the life contracts and their social credit system (karma for the uninitiated) all the while rigging game from beginning to end.

 

[David Nelson]

I think this stuff is pretty widely known at this point tbh.
Maybe in the 90s people were not as aware of the power structure.
But especially today, people are much more aware and pissed off about it.

Awareness doesn't change shit though.
We're all slave workers just trying to survive.
Ain't nobody got time, energy or resources to topple the looney-nati.

I think you may be conflating awareness of powerful countries bullying poorer ones with national strategies of lying about their belief in democracy and freedom, when in fact they show contempt for both, unless it hurts elite interests. It's the elite interest part (directly related to working class oppression) which is not that well know about (especially outside of forums like this) and which is among the most controversial apsects. People will die to maintain inequality in wealthy western countries. That's pretty radical, and why western elites/establishment secretly liked the nazis until they posed a direct threat to them. If that was widely know about, the British Royal Family would not be given much support from the population, nor would Remebrance day have much significance; and Saving Private Ryan and similar films would seem daft. The Good War Myth runs through the West like the letters in Blackpool Rock. Sure, there have been some Hollywood films which expose national corruption, but I'm not aware of any which show that Western elites supported the nazis, and why. Contempt and oppression of working people is the reason. If that was widely understood, politics would be so different because most on the right reject that analysis.

 

[Wyote]

It's the elite interest part which is not that well known about

I'm not conflating anything, I think you are minimizing people's overall intelligence/learning ability.
And at the same time ignorant of people's overall inability to do a lot of complex things.

 

[David Nelson]

One has to be amazed sometimes how they pulled it all off especially with the life contracts and their social credit system (karma for the uninitiated) all the while rigging game from beginning to end.

I think it happens naturally through people's common self interest (most people aren't INFJs lol). It's not like a widespread conspiracy. Much of it happens becuase people go along with the status quo and resist change. Many involved proably truly believe the lies themselves. I think that's why many cannot easily comprehend these ideas.

 

[David Nelson]

I'm not conflating anything, I think you are minimizing people's overall intelligence/learning ability.
And at the same time ignorant of people's overall inability to do a lot of complex things.

So everyone has read Chomsky? As someone else said, most people don't read books, and the books about this stuff are pretty niche. How else are people going to know this stuff? I am certain you are wrong.

 

[Wyote]

I am certain you are wrong.

lol that's ok, you're often certain of wrong things.
Carry on.