... yes, or noticing, but choosing to ignore. What do you mean? With your actual eyes, or your other eyes?
Do many people hate the INFJ ability to read others and dig up hidden motivations?
- Thread starter Artemisia
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A bit of both really. It's hard to describe because I tend to go immediately from seeing someone to forming an impression, but it's not a verbal one but an impression of character. It would take quite a bit of effort to rationalise and verbalise it for a particular person. It's not something clairvoyant or weird, but more like an instant character pattern recognition. I do the same with places too and express this in my photographs. I love doing it with places but dislike doing it with people, so I tend to avoid more than glance at folks unless I'm talking to them. If I'm out and about, I tend not to look at people very much - but then I'm usually in a world of my own anyway, and trust my feet to take me to where we're going lol.... yes, or noticing, but choosing to ignore. What do you mean? With your actual eyes, or your other eyes?
I think some of the best portrait photographers and artists do what I'm describing with their subjects to very great effect - I wish I had that gift, but it's not something I'm comfortable with unless I know the person very well. I do take the occasional candid shot though - there's a delightful character fugue in these two people I photographed a few years back for example:
I actually don't think what I'm describing is unique to INFJ types - I think a lot of other people do this too though they may not be as aware they are doing it as we and some of the other NF types are. The first impressions can be pretty spot on, but often they get refined and amplified deeply if we have real contact with someone. It may be that INFJs see more deeply than many others if they turn their attention fully onto a person, and soak up more input because Ni picks up all the subliminal information and structures it. On the other hand, it seems to me that if INFJs become emotionally invested in someone romantically, or as a close friend, their dreams get tangled with the reality of the other person, and we can be very off with our understanding of them then.
That's interesting. Thank you for explaining. I think I do the instant pattern recognition as well. And as you said, so does probably all the other types. When it comes to forming an impression of character beyond the immediate first impression, I find that I'm actually slower than most at this. And often, I find that my first impression was wrong. To me, in terms of function use, it looks something like this: Se provides the raw information (body language, words, tone of voice, tempo, frequency and so on), and I notice pretty strongly that I am in the concrete-hands-on-real-world while meeting a person I'm about to engage with - almost a feeling of being startled (or waken up if I know the person). Then I'll find myself in some sort of middle ground between "worlds" - if I had four legs, one would be in the concrete world, one in the abstract, one in my personal experience/perspective, and one (imagined) in the other person's. It can be quite chaotic until I'm back on track (not really back, but on track). Ni takes its time, and I can't do anything before it provides me with its associations. When Ni has given me a direction, I'll start interpreting the meaning (Ti?) of the incoming information (Se Fe?) and how I should convey whatever in an appropriate manner (Ti Fe?). If Ni isn't providing anything useful, I'll "cheat" with Ne-Si ("ding, ding, ding, dots connect, pattern detected, I've seen this before"). When it comes to places, I rely on intuition and logic to get me where I need to go. If there's people there, that's where my main focus is. I'm definitely the one who follow the masses when it comes navigating in the concrete world. If I'm just observing from a far, I will do the opposite of what I'll do when engaging with someone. I will watch them, and allow my imagination to form all sorts of images then.
The photo you posted is a situation I would be very entertained by simply observing. It's really good!
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In my experience there are also good people who don't like to feel 'seen'. It can be tricky because an INFJ might kinda want to make them feel seen because they like them, so they have to be careful
Lol. You mean that the INFJ despite having good intentions, may lack tact in their approach and come off as creepy? Isn't that more ENFJ territory?
There were times when an INFJ told me what they thought my motivations were, yet despite being wrong, their answer demonstrated their degree of overall insight.
Because they didn’t ask me, I disclosed what they were. And that’s when it went pear-shaped.
Being yelled at, accused of lying, and restating their conclusion with a surety qualifier...not the best feeling I’ve ever had.
But I only had to endure it for a couple of seconds because it was swept away by becoming depersonalized,
You see, a part of my brain associates yelling with being beaten, so my brain checked me out to protect me....because it knows it won’t hurt if I‘m not present.
I can‘t hate an ability that doesn’t exist. INFJs do not have this ability. No one does. Be reasonable by actually engaging with me, instead of your imagination, and simply ask.
These days, if a person were to use a you pronoun with a verb describing a emotional/mental process, I would interrupt them, tell them why, and ask why they didn’t just ask me.
I can appreciate that a deep degree of insight combined with a keen intuition may, over time, have more correct conclusions than not as it regards human motivation. That said, keep it to yourself and compare notes after you actually ask the person in question.
Asking honors boundaries, and in turn communicates respect.
Obviously, think what you like. Just know that if you really believe you have the power to read a person and know their motivation, your actual degree of insight is as that of a brick.
Cheers,
Ian
Because they didn’t ask me, I disclosed what they were. And that’s when it went pear-shaped.
Being yelled at, accused of lying, and restating their conclusion with a surety qualifier...not the best feeling I’ve ever had.
But I only had to endure it for a couple of seconds because it was swept away by becoming depersonalized,
You see, a part of my brain associates yelling with being beaten, so my brain checked me out to protect me....because it knows it won’t hurt if I‘m not present.
I can‘t hate an ability that doesn’t exist. INFJs do not have this ability. No one does. Be reasonable by actually engaging with me, instead of your imagination, and simply ask.
These days, if a person were to use a you pronoun with a verb describing a emotional/mental process, I would interrupt them, tell them why, and ask why they didn’t just ask me.
I can appreciate that a deep degree of insight combined with a keen intuition may, over time, have more correct conclusions than not as it regards human motivation. That said, keep it to yourself and compare notes after you actually ask the person in question.
Asking honors boundaries, and in turn communicates respect.
Obviously, think what you like. Just know that if you really believe you have the power to read a person and know their motivation, your actual degree of insight is as that of a brick.
Cheers,
Ian
I think this is sound advice in the confines of a healthy relationship, friendship, or family. The problem arises when the intuitive, in question, comes face to face with darker entities who make it their mission to obscure their actual intent, and who the intuitive - intuits is thoroughly up to no good. In such a situation, asking the other person about their intent only lines them up for further manipulation and lies. Crazy making..
I believe.. this is why some of us are granted the gift of intuition. A tool for the tender hearted to protect themselves, as well as others.
True, I wasn’t addressing darker entities. Make sure not to think the entity is dark because you intuited it to be.
And for sure, ask the question even when you know you will be lied to. Sometimes the nature of the lie communicates more than the truth would have.
The true narcissists will, in a twisted way, really appreciate it if you subtly play up the naive and pure-hearted angle when you ask, because that’s their favorite kind of supply. As such, they might really take some pleasure in trying to manipulate you, and lie in a way that both satisfies their own psychological need as well as making you seem like tender, easy prey. Do that well, and the narcissist will play with you like a cat plays with what it is about to kill. In so doing, much will be revealed. They cannot resist an opportunity to be cruel, and will show their hand as they bat you about.
But be careful. You’re better to avoid them, and only engage when you have the opportunity to throw them into a pit.
Cheers,
Ian
I was married to one of those. ^ A sociopathic one, at that, who now awaits a three year term for his transgressions in our lives. I know exactly how to handle these beasts now, unfortunately..
You are correct in your assessment of their handling. You are nothing but a snapshot of an idealized desire, a partner in a shared fantasy, supply.. whilst in a relationship with them. Burst that bubble, mortify the narcissist, and it's game over.
I can't answer this question, but I think it's interesting. Here's just my thoughts on it:
Is this an INFJ thing? And how do I know if someone, first of all, could tell that I was "reading them and digging up hidden motivations" in the first place?
No, I don't think people hate the "INFJ ability to read others and dig up hidden motivations", because I don't think most people who come into contact with INFJs in every day life a) know that who they are talking to is an INFJ, b) are even are of or put to much importance on someone's MBTI type or even someone being an INFJ, and c) is aware and interprets someone's interaction as mind-reading and probing for hidden motivations.
If I were to just fire off some thoughts about what I feel the Op is getting at and my opinion on why I think it is interesting:
I feel that Ni-doms in particular just have a very different vibe and perceive a lot normal situations and everyday difficulties with a level of intensity and headspace that is very easy to misunderstand. I can't speak for everyone, but I feel though, at times a little awkward if I'm interacting and someone reacts to some unintentional word or gesture I made that throws me off. I think sometimes the directness of how Ni-doms will approach a line of questioning or some activity may make people upset because they may feel they are being challenged or disrespected or something. But hate is a strong word. And personally don't think INFJs in particular, and definitely not all INFJs read people/probe for hidden motivations. I know I don't do this, at least not intentionally or purposefully. However, I do know that my mind, especially when it's quiet and focused, will pick up a pattern or see an inconsistency in the not-so-obvious meanings of what I'm perceiving. And yes, if making some reaction or expressing an indication of a hidden meaning or motivation explicit or revealed - if it was inappropriate or if the other party doesn't like it and denies it - I find the feedback is certainly more emotional or dismissive than the motive behind my expression. Just my thoughts: I hope that makes sense[interesting question, but I'm afraid I don't think I fully understand it...my bad].