Discussing the Quantum Brain (Orch OR) - Penrose and Hameroff

dragulagu said:
Does our brain work like a quantum computer? Can we define our consciousness through quantum processes.
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This is what ORCH OR is suggesting and has been using experimentation to solidify.
dragulagu said:
We are "aware" of what time is.
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This is outside the scope of the discussion but there is plenty of debate about time among physicist. We definitely have a perception of it. It would be an interesting discussion if you want to start a new thread.
 
TomasM said:
This is what ORCH OR is suggesting and has been using experimentation to solidify.
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A quantum computer in the purest sense has a very defined way of how it works. It follows computer-logic. While our brain is a product of evolution, or rather adaption. A very different architecture.

TomasM said:
This is outside the scope of the discussion but there is plenty of debate about time among physicist. We definitely have a perception of it. It would be an interesting discussion if you want to start a new thread.
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Would love to discuss it outside this thread as the topic on its own is kind of fascinating. But the question does have intent with this discussion, quantum reality is unbound to the flow of time. It works with the general canon of "something happens", and, "this comes out of it".

Quantum physics does not rely on a general direction of time in the purest sense; the action or flow of time can be reversed. While the physics of our brain follows follows a general flow, we are aligned with the general direction of time.

Wyote said:
I did a thing. About 16min or 8 on 2x speed.
Decent simple primer.
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That discussion sounds...pretty peculiar :p.
 
dragulagu said:
That discussion sounds...pretty peculiar :p.
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Probably because it's AI generated
The voices are more normal-ish than a lot of the garbage out there though

At any rate, I think this is an interesting topic and I feel like it's worth attempting to reach a wide audience with
More brains equals more progress
 
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@dragulagu - Quantum computing is merging the advancement of traditional computing with quantum function. Separately, time as it relates to quantum mechanics, is highly theoretical. My point is that these topics can’t really be explored within the context of ORCH OR because it hasn’t yet experimentally drilled down deep enough into quantum mechanics.

The theory is still attempting to establish the connection between consciousness and quantum mechanics as a demarcation. Doing this requires the merging of biological and quantum experimentation which often utilizes tissue samples.

I do find your thoughts on quantum interesting but I really can’t discuss it within this context because the theory simply hasn’t advanced itself to the depth you are attempting to engage. This is why I suggested a separate thread.
 
TomasM said:
@dragulagu - Quantum computing is merging the advancement of traditional computing with quantum function. Separately, time as it relates to quantum mechanics, is highly theoretical. My point is that these topics can’t really be explored within the context of ORCH OR because it hasn’t yet experimentally drilled down deep enough into quantum mechanics.

The theory is still attempting to establish the connection between consciousness and quantum mechanics as a demarcation. Doing this requires the merging of biological and quantum experimentation which often utilizes tissue samples.

I do find your thoughts on quantum interesting but I really can’t discuss it within this context because the theory simply hasn’t advanced itself to the depth you are attempting to engage. This is why I suggested a separate thread.
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Quantum computing is merging the advancement of traditional computing with quantum function. Separately, time as it relates to quantum mechanics, is highly theoretical. My point is that these topics can’t really be explored within the context of ORCH OR because it hasn’t yet experimentally drilled down deep enough into quantum mechanics.

For the sake of continuation of our talk, I'll skip this part. Quantum computing is not that theoretical nor traditional towards the concept of time as it this a necessary factor for quantum physics (in any direction). Which, in turn, is also a very important factor for our biology.

But, I agree though with your mindset on the topic, let's continue with the perspective of choice here; ORCH OR.
 
WhyNna said:
The human body is quantum beyond our perception. It is not just the brain. That is my 1% contribution to this topic
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Our bodies cranks our 2-3 million cells per second. That should be closer to quantum processesing
And hey, if quantum healing is a thing, then quantum processing of our bodies is a possibility🤓
 
Fascinating read, thank you so much for sharing!

TomasM said:
microtubules could be a method for electronic energy transfer.
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I was curious about what the implications of this might be (I had some ideas already), which prompted me to do a search

Key Implications of Microtubules as Energy Transducers:
  • Quantum Biological Signaling: Microtubules can act as miniature electrical wires, supporting coherent energy transport (potentially photoexcitations) that allows for rapid, long-range cellular signaling and information processing.
  • Brain Function and Consciousness: These structures generate, amplify, and transmit electrical oscillations (often around Hz) in neurons, contributing to gamma frequency oscillations associated with consciousness.
  • Neurodegenerative Disease Mechanisms: Because microtubule networks are often impaired in diseases like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's (tauopathies), these disorders may be linked to a failure in this energy transfer mechanism.
  • Novel Therapeutic Targets: Microtubule-targeted drugs could be developed to modulate cellular electrical properties and treat cancer or neurodegenerative diseases.
  • Biohybrid Technology: Their ability to act as electronic components (transistors or conductors) provides a foundation for developing bio-molecular computers or advanced biosensors.
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I find things like this so exciting. We still have so much left to explore, so much left to learn. I wonder where we'll be in 50 years, what sort of advancements we might have made.

Edit: Ah, I had to continue reading :laughing: I went to investigate on my own, but you had already provided many of the implications, such as in this post

TomasM said:
Consciousness, Cognition and the Neuronal Cytoskeleton
A New Paradigm Needed in Neuroscience

View attachment 95779Mainstream neuroscience and philosophy typically describe the brain as a computational network of neurons, following the Hodgkin-Huxley model of “integrate-and-fire” activities. However, this approach inadequately explains consciousness, cognition, and intelligent behavior in simpler organisms that lack neurons but use their cytoskeleton to sense and act. The brain-as-computer model, which reduces brain function to synaptic activity and membrane potentials, fails to capture the deeper complexities of life and consciousness, which may arise from quantum coherence, as suggested by Hameroff, Penrose, and Schrödinger.

A new paradigm is proposed, centering on quantum and classical information processing in microtubules within neurons, particularly in cortical Layer V pyramidal neurons. These neurons are part of a large-scale 2D grid across the cortex, integrating sensory input and generating motor control. Their mixed polarity microtubules facilitate quantum interference, and their deviation from standard computational models could signal a deeper role in consciousness. The Orch OR theory posits that these quantum processes regulate neuron firing, linking consciousness to behavior in a non-computable way.View attachment 95780

The theory also suggests that consciousness and life originate from quantum dipole oscillations within proteins, forming a scale-invariant hierarchy of quantum coherence that spans from molecular vibrations to larger cognitive processes. This paradigm shift has significant medical implications, particularly in treating conditions like Alzheimer's, traumatic brain injury, and depression, which involve cytoskeletal dysfunctions. Future therapies might target the cytoskeleton directly, using technologies like low-intensity transcranial ultrasound to modulate microtubule activity.

Ultimately, this new model positions the brain not as a computational device but as a quantum-holographic system, capable of orchestrating consciousness and behavior through quantum processes within the neuronal cytoskeleton.

Source
15 June 2022
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