Did you encounter Principles and Beliefs within you that were non self-determined? | INFJ Forum

Did you encounter Principles and Beliefs within you that were non self-determined?

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by Impact Character, Oct 10, 2018.

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  1. Impact Character

    Impact Character folding paper cranes ⭐

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    Did you encounter Principles and Beliefs within you that were non self-determined?

    I know.. this is rather a cognitive-behavioral topic..

    (There are some other similar-ish threads but I find they didn't quite suit to my attempt here. So I am started my own (and first (yay!)) xD)​



    I'd like to scratch a bit on that people-pleasing aspect (maybe it comes through the decision-making with Fe, I'm not sure).
    But also.. this is part of growing up and finding your own way or a healthier life course, right?




    In case you confronted internalized principles and beliefs that you learned from your parents, siblings and close friends (environment)..


    1) Can you state these principles and beliefs? (maybe explain them, too)

    2) Do you find them suitable for your MBTI type?
    (state type if necessary) If not..

    3) To which new one did you switch that you felt more fitting for yourself/your MBTI type?
    (or which new one did you come up with?)





    Thread-"Rules":

    No:
    • no religion today (sorry folks xD)
    • no dysfunctional thoughts (let's not focus too much on our inner critics)

    Yes:
    • principles and beliefs (value-oriented, concerning daily life, work, money, love, life-happiness, life-success, people-interaction and so on)
    • sayings and phrases from your or other cultures (additional explanations are highly appreciated)
    • mottos, life mantras and motivational quotes (for example "no risk no fun")
    • sayings and phrases from your (grand)parents (the "as my granny used to say.." kind of thing)

    Yes yes:
    • positive and functional principles and beliefs ^^
    • although the topic may be serious, please have fun!

    thanks for reading! <3

    (over and out)
     
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    #1 Impact Character, Oct 10, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
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  2. Pin

    Pin "Magnificent Bastard" / Ren's Counterpart

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    I don't believe in original ideas, just logical conclusions. For example, helping others.
     
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  3. sassafras

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    Can you give a sample of what it is that you're looking for?
     
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  4. OP
    Impact Character

    Impact Character folding paper cranes ⭐

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    First I had a hard time finding texts in english to find the right words to explain this xD (which is interessting in itself).
    (Thinking about it, I remember there was a saying in US-America about how people rather never argue about religion and politics.)


    It's about your bias and becoming aware of your bias.
    As in how you see the world and what forms your identity. ​


    This is rather highly sensitive topic (maybe even more for your culture).


    Those beliefs and values you stand for and which you somehow picked up or learned from somewhere or through a distinct experience (since our childhood).

    Usually you live a happier live when you follow your core beliefs and values (if they resonate truthfully with you and that are not hindering you of growing or deciding what's best for you).

    But there might be periodes in your life where you were finding yourself (for example puberty) or re-finding yourself (for example after life changers).
    As in .. you had to get to that point while coming across many different values and beliefs through your inner circle (family, friends) or even strangers and idols..​


    I don't want anyone to feel like they have to soul-strip here.

    It's rather an attempt to share the positive moments when you found your truthfully fitting values and beliefs or maybe a nice saying or quote that goes with it.


    Maybe there was a bias you grew up with that imprisoned you for quite a time because it made you reject new and different information on a healthier world view or view of yourself (some kind of negative dysfunctional filters of perceptions).

    Usually these beliefs are hidden rather implicitly in your language or behavior.
    They usually are at work before you feel an emotions and they are usually the source of that.​


    Thoughts (judgements) create emotions.

    I'm kind of interested in those happy moments of self-growth and self-development when you unlocked your own healthy beliefs and values.

    Ergo..do you think there are MBTI fitting beliefs and values and which are those?


    Since MBTI is rather about values and behavior than characteristics (if I got this right)..?


    Examples.. hmm..(there I made a mistake.. I realize it's hard to translate most of these things into another cultural system).


    "The cup is half empty." -> "The cup is half full." (Pessimism/Optimism)
    (I think this is a rather global saying for everyone to understand my point..?)


    Thank you guys for answering and asking (reaching out). :)
     
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  5. Krypton

    Krypton Permanent Fixture

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    Well, my self-preservation instinct comes to mind--I've had moments where I literally could not make my body move despite consciously at least half-wanting to.

    Besides that...I've had problems getting aggressive with people I don't see a reason to, and I don't think that's entirely self-determined. My ex asked me to choke her at one point, and I literally could not do it, at least not hard enough to work for her.

    I feel like I'd have less of a problem doing that now, but maybe not.

    EDIT: I may have misinterpreted this--I thought self-determined meant consciously determined. I'll leave in case these count though.

    But uh...I think the majority of anyone's beliefs and ideas are non-self-determined, so it'd be easier to talk about what was self-determined. One could maybe say that we sort of pick which non-self-determined beliefs we adhere to for the most part, based on a certain core of selfhood.

    For example, someone might at their core desire status and admiration, and therefore believe in things like "it's okay to make white lies in conversation", "It isn't worth it to have this vacation", and so on because it helps them become a status seeker. They might even base their ideal partner off of that, wanting someone that reflects the person they want to be.
     
    #5 Krypton, Oct 13, 2018
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  6. Sandie33

    Sandie33 Love Often & Absolutely ♡
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    Unraveling the conditioning by our influencers to establish a core belief system that honors our true self, yet, accepts anothers differences, while maintaining the understanding that what we view as correct for ourself, may indeed be incorrect for another. :)
     
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  7. OP
    Impact Character

    Impact Character folding paper cranes ⭐

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    @In the Wings @Sandie33

    You guys are great!
    I think you both understood what I was so desperately trying to communicate. (I feared it couldn't get there.. ;_; ..so thank you so much for your participation in this !)
    this gets clearer when more people are on the search for the right words and contents.




    self-preservation instinct: that might be some of my motive for this, too. For me it's a bit alien to learn "being a bit more egoistical or inward focused in that case".



    This is exactly the problem. .. I think. Asking myself or anyone else (via forum) to make hard-wired behavioral/mental programms conscious...to be able to talk about it..
    I'm kind of training right now to detect these things (which is difficult but there are a couple of ..tools to achieve this)..


    this is making this attempt/mission to a great phrase itself <3 xD love this thank u
     
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  8. Sandie33

    Sandie33 Love Often & Absolutely ♡
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    You are most welcome.
    :m178:
     
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  9. Wyote

    Wyote (#/-\[]$ ([]`/[]'|'[-
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    I still don't quite understand the specifics of what you're requesting of me here, but I want to contribute because I'm almost on board here and it's an interesting topic from what I do understand of it.

    Being myself while allowing others to be themselves is something I've thought about a fair amount.
     
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    #9 Wyote, Oct 15, 2018
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  10. OP
    Impact Character

    Impact Character folding paper cranes ⭐

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    I'm sorry.. I'm having a hard time with this myself.

    To translate it to community language:
    It's some kind of a personally difficult Ne-Si-Fi exercise.


    This topic is close but it focuses alot on the inner critic... furthermore, what is with beliefs that are or were directed outwards?
     
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  11. Wyote

    Wyote (#/-\[]$ ([]`/[]'|'[-
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    I had a philosophy class that helped me think about some interesting things due to a funny analogy the professor gave. He said that suppose you are a person who really really enjoys pornography. Your reasoning is somewhat irrelevant but let's just say for the sake of argument that your reasons are pure. Is it ok then to pass out pornography with everyone and share it with people everywhere you go? It's just something you enjoy and want to share that joy with others. Since it's such a great thing to you, it doesn't matter to you the age of the person or any demographic, everyone should get some of your porn! Maybe even videos if you have them.
     
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  12. OP
    Impact Character

    Impact Character folding paper cranes ⭐

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    That sounds like a fun class. :) Do you want to share your personal conclusions? (You don't have to, I am just really curious who you are :p)


    So..concerning examples. Actually @flower helped me a great big deal to remember something personal. (Thanks again, flower ^^)
    (And since everything circles ❍ back in here and there..)


    Examples are rather very subtle incluences we missuse to pressure ourselves. It never feels good and it always seems to turn into overthinking.
    The reframed version is a belief more anchored in personal experience and...well...it's more self aware and self determined..​


    dysfunctional belief: The choice you make now determines the whole future outcome. (like in: the studies you pick now determine your whole career.)
    reframed: most people I know don't end up working in exactly the field they gratuated in (but it has a big influence on their perspectives and problem solving patterns.)

    dysfunctional belief: After making the choice (about career, family..life etc.), the work is done.
    reframed: designing a happy life is a flowing process, it's never set in stone (life crisis, new paths etc) and it will always needs adjustments.


    my SO's and my "guiding spirit":
    • poco a poco (learned that in mexico and..)
    • poli, poli, di umbuendo (this came from my SO's father, he was a sailor)
    both say pretty much the same: step by step, little by little (we arrive)

    I cannot really rephrase the dysfunctional belief I had.. (since the hab about it is that you often don't treat them that consciously..).. but it isn't difficult to figure out that it has to do with handling workload (in life or work) and/or achieving goals and wishes.. it's a motto for not stressing yourself out.. and finding the dosis of energy to "get there" without putting too much preassure on yourself, no? ^^
     
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  13. Wyote

    Wyote (#/-\[]$ ([]`/[]'|'[-
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    I'm not sure what you're looking for. I just think it's an interesting thing to keep in mind. Just because you believe something with your whole heart doesn't mean it's "right" for another individual. You can share the idea, but forcing it upon them in some way may be harmful.
     
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  14. OP
    Impact Character

    Impact Character folding paper cranes ⭐

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    it wasn't meant like this at all ^^"" I'm very sorry if I caused any confusion..?_?

    thanks for your concern, wyote..!


    I opened this thread to share thoughts not to force anything on anyone ^^"" it's meant to be individual for every story itself... (I'm a bit shocked to be honest..)

    This is a difficult topic for me and well.. if you think some words are misleading then please help me out..?
     
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    #14 Impact Character, Oct 20, 2018
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  15. Wyote

    Wyote (#/-\[]$ ([]`/[]'|'[-
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    Huh? I didn't feel forced about anything, I was just trying to explain my conclusion in a holistic sense. I guess I don't know what you're looking for, like I said.
     
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  16. Wyote

    Wyote (#/-\[]$ ([]`/[]'|'[-
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    @Impact Character These statements are about my interpretation of what my philosophy teacher said. Maybe you thought I was referring to your thread?
    Just trying to clear up the confusion. I'm not in any way feeling negative or forced, I just want to know what you mean specifically in asking me what my conclusions are.
     
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  17. OP
    Impact Character

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    ok ^^" thank you for clearing that up.. I'm relieved ^^"""

    about your class: I wasn't aiming for anything. it was rather an open question for anything you feel comfortable sharing here.. :)
     
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  18. John K

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    I'll have a go at this @Impact Character and see if I can feel my way to what you are asking.

    There were several things of this sort that my parents passed on to me, some inhibiting and some the opposite:
    • They were both timid about taking on new life experiences. They were not very adventurous about where we went on holiday for example, and always seemed to generate a lot of anxiety about this sort of thing. Even more so about life changing decisions such as moving house, etc. This sort of thing is contagious between parents and children.
    • They were completely ambigous about other people - they'd avoid others and complain for days about the hassle of having people round, then became the life and soul of the party when they were with others. I bet this sounds familiar around the forum, because it's not far removed from infj behaviour! This was very confusing to me as a child, and some of this has stuck, though it is consistent with my own natural type attitude anyway.
    • Both my parents loved art, my mother in particular, and valued very highly self expression in the form of art - whether visual, written or musical. My mother was always painting and drawing and encouraged me and my brothers to do the same. I'm hopeless at painting and drawing myself, but this way of relating to the world comes out in my photography and some poetry. One of the most valuable gifts from my mother that soaked into me as a child is that the attempt at expressing yourself in art is far more important than the quality of the achievement. She was in love with art itself and the people who made it, not its products.
    • And building on that, my mother was one of these blessed people who gave postive feedback whenever she could - this is another thing that has soaked into me, though I'm not as good at it as she was. She had a gift for building people up.
    • She was also the person who saturated me with the very Ni ability to expand horizons and context shift. She and my dad may not have been very adventurous in the outer world but inner world adventure was a different story. I've got most of Jung's more accessible books, all passed on from my mother, she'd have been delighted with Skarekrow's Merkabah thread, she was into Yoga and meditation, she was a devout Roman Catholic .......
    • Dad passed on to us the importance of humour - a godlike value!
    Over the years I've managed to free myself to some extent with the inhibitory behaviours I learned from home, though my school experiences added to the difficulties I have had in the past with people in my own age group. But I'd better stop here and see if this is the sort of thing you are interested in before saying anything about my very own self-generated values and principles and hang-ups.
     
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  19. OP
    Impact Character

    Impact Character folding paper cranes ⭐

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    I'm a thief and burglar reading and moving along carefully through and between your lines.. that's really precious, John!... thank you so much for sharing this....! I mean it..

    Also for giving it a try, too... I'm so sorry that this thread ended up so fuzzy.. I'm not used to just throw an issue in for debate that is ...half baked and all... :sorrowful: I just thought I might as well give it a try.​

    It's true.. there is so much you learn and take in from family or other close people around you..and it's usually very subtle and implicit..if you didn't learn it explicitly by a phrase or so.. sometimes it's even so small yet it has huge impact on oneself.. and as you said.. some is inhibiting..some is the opposite. :relieved:

    Despite all good intentions some things just end up too strong in belief or behavior as well.. falling into some imbalance to something else better learned at some point later..


    on a sidenote... this confuses me, too.. I didn't know that was a INFJ thing...how so?​


    There are a couple of things I need to get some distance from.. myself. It's a tough learning process especially the subtle consequences and beliefs that formed underneath..
    ...Some of the themes you talk about are very very familiar..

    Please feel free to tell.. I really do love personal stories.. they really matter in all colorful variety..:relaxed:
     
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  20. John K

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    Just a quick response to this question - but how much do you know about the Myers Briggs Type Indicator, (MBTI)? Your question suggests that you are relatively new to it, and if so, I'm sure you'd find one of the many good books on the subject quite fascinating, or you could have a good look through the online web sites. Essentially, the "I" in infj stands for introverted - which Carl Jung defined to be characteristic of people who gain their mental energy from within themselves and use it up in company. Extroverted people, whose MBTI indicator starts with "E", increase their mental energy from being in company and associating with others. All introverted people have to be on their own a lot of the time otherwise they become overwhelmed with other people and mentally and emotionally exhausted. Some introverted types are more solitary than others - infjs are among the most people oriented of the introverts and can be mistaken for extroverts when they are in the company of good friends or work colleagues that they know well. They still need a lot of "me time" though. Does this answer your question?
     
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