Determinism, hard, soft or null? | INFJ Forum

Determinism, hard, soft or null?

Lark

Rothchildian Agent
May 9, 2011
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What's your view of determinism? I sort of presume that if you believe that MBTI has any validity you have to be at least a soft determinist, most recently I read up on the hard determinist thinking which is pretty predominant in a lot of the recent psychological research, some of it suggests that we're all totally relativisitic and all ethics are situational, while the rest of it suggests that research demonstrating how easily individuals under lab conditions make misattributions of their own importance in specific (orchestrated, although unknown to them) events that it is likely consciousness is an illusion altogether.

There are some other studies on the nature of altered states of consciousness and religious experience, including the "God helmet" experiments in which current passed through different parts of the brain triggers may of the religious experiences from scriptures or the history of the worlds religions. Perhaps that could be generalised beyond the religious sphere to other sorts of experience, attribution and explanation (I'm not arguing that religion is merely a result of physiological reactions or abreations btw).

Those things you'd believe if you were a hard determinist, I tend to be a soft determinist, I think that a deal is determined developmentally, sociologically (particularly to be honest) and psychologically but I still believe in the validity of free will, choice, personal responsibility and consequences as philosophical or normative precepts.

Without horror I do think that some people's lives will only amount to a cautionary tale for others, that is while they were perhaps made that way, not born that way and you dont blame the lettuce if it doesnt grow as expected serious violations of norms, mores and values shouldnt go unpunished or without consequence.
 
I say that truth is 90% Relativism, 10% Objectivism (Percentages are negotiable), so you could call me a soft-determinist.

We all come from different nations, religions, cultures, backrounds, etc. We all are going to have differing beliefs on certain issues as a result of this. We have the choice to cling to our own beliefs like flies to a web, or we can open our minds and explore and learn at least respect the differing beliefs of others around me.

As a Christian, I have many Atheistic, Pagan, Wiccan, Agnostic, Buddhist, Hindu, ect friends/peers.
I believe that there is a God and that he sent his Son to save and show his love for us, I believe that He created us, but I also believe that we have the choice to have a relationship with Him or not. Just like our parents who have raised us, we have a choice to follow their ideals as an adult...or not.
 
Meh, determinism just feels like people need to be comforted by having a reason to be here. I think Bill O'Reiley's argument against evolution was that it made him feel weird thinking he evolved from something. It's just that people want to believe in shit that doesn't scare them by making them feel insignificant. Nobody wants to here that their existence doesn't really matter, they want to be reassured. Hence, people think there is a reason for things happening.
 
I guess I'd be a soft determinist? I suspect that free-will and determinism both exist.
 
Metaphysically, I'm a hard determinist.
Morally, I'm a totally soft determinist (ie. I think there is real freedom).
Intellectually, I'm a moderate determinist.

In other words, I think that physically, if time travel were possible, our entire lives are set to an immovable path; but given our limited perspective of these kind of things, we do have real choice in our actions. Nevertheless, or freedom is relative and not absolute.
 
None of the above. Free will and determinism are simply abstract absolutes. They represent extreme opposite ends on a spectrum. Neither is ever achieved.

The way the human brain is wired, we take cognitive shortcuts where we generalize ideas under absolutes that don't actually exist in the world. If you analyze it you will find that there is never a case where a human being can act completely with free will or is a complete slave to fate. We fall within a murky gray area that our minds naturally find unpleasant to conceive.

A better way to conceive of it is in terms of probability. For example, determining the likelihood that a certain action was by discretion is the domain of mental health. Factors such as environment, medical history, childhood, mental state, etc. have to be considered as factors that could influence the degree to which a person has control over their actions. However, even with an innumerable number of variables that influence us, we still have some ability to choose alternative actions.

In other words, our free will can approach 0 but it never actually reaches 0.
 
Determinism is an illusion. Causal relations have no effect on our Will, it only seems that way because we assume that our Will is Willing our surroundings. If our surroundings have a causal element, we then assume this causal element must be master over our Will; such a view is preposterous, for the affections of the Will are not causal in nature in any scientific way.
 
I guess I'd be a soft determinist? I suspect that free-will and determinism both exist.

I've heard that before, phrased slightly differently but I cant remember who said it. Perhaps Satre but I dont like the guy or his writing.
 
Determinism is an illusion. Causal relations have no effect on our Will, it only seems that way because we assume that our Will is Willing our surroundings. If our surroundings have a causal element, we then assume this causal element must be master over our Will; such a view is preposterous, for the affections of the Will are not causal in nature in any scientific way.

Is choice an illusion?
 
I've heard that before, phrased slightly differently but I cant remember who said it. Perhaps Satre but I dont like the guy or his writing.

Eh, I understand. I believe that we have free will in our lives but the things that determine our lives, such as genetics, are determined.