Desperately needing advice!!

[Black Swan]

I have been mulling this over for DAYS... Waking up at all hours, laying in bed, trying to prevent the fuming... Please bear with me as I type this out as I'm really not sure what to do and I'd appreciate any and all advice.

My husband and I have a friend (actually, his best friend). This friend and his fiancee have decided to terminate her pregnancy tomorrow (Monday).

Before I go further, let me say that I'm more or less pro-choice. I don't like abortion, but I can at least *understand* some reasons for having them: rape, life threatening risks, etc.

I realize that their choice isn't really any of my business and I know there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. What I also know, is that I'm not sure I can continue being friends with my husband's best friend (which makes me enormously sad) or his fiancee (which, I didn't really like anyway), or even be in the same room with them without me daydreaming about punching them in the face.

Ok, so... My friend's fiancee went to my husband for advice. She thought she might want it, but had never really wanted kids, he thought he'd like to have a family with her, but somehow felt they weren't ready, etc, etc. So, basically my husband was trying to mediate between the two because they were fighting about it. She asked my husband not to tell anyone, but I'm his wife, he's not going to keep secrets from me, and then of course the fiancee got all pissed that I knew about it (can't say I blame her, but spouses normally aren't people you want to keep secrets from, especially a burden like this, my husband feels the way I do).

These "friends" are not teenagers, they're both nearly 30. So, they definitely know where babies come from and how it happens. This is where I get absolutely livid. I wasn't there, but from what my husband told me, she had stated that she doesn't want this baby, but maybe sometime later on in the future. What the hell? My husband had suggested maybe they give it up for adoption, and her response was: "But it'd be too hard because I'd probably want it then". God help me! You're afraid to give up the baby for adoption because you may love it, so the better alternative is to abort it?!? I'm mad at both of them, but I'm mainly pissed at her, because regardless of what he thinks, she has the ultimate say. And I think her reasons are absolute bullshit motivated by selfishness. But anyway, the plan to abort tomorrow is still on and I feel sick to my stomach. I don't feel like inconvenience and selfishness are good enough reasons for abortion.

The whole thing just has me foaming at the mouth. I was so upset and in tears when I found out, and though my husband and I talked it out for hours, I just can't seem to shake my anger and disappointment. I really care about my husband's friend, it would be hurtful to end the relationship with him, and so that's really the reason for posting this. The fiancee, I don't give a damn about. I didn't feel like she was a good match for our friend from the beginning, for reasons I won't mention here, but I was trying to work through those feelings for the sake of my husband and friend's relationship, but now... Oh God, I don't think I could prevent myself from bitching them out. My husband is immensly bothered by the whole thing, but his INTJ abilities are helping him work through it.

And this is just part of it, it got out that they're actually planning on getting married next year (they've only been together for a few months), and the fact that he didn't tell my husband, who is his "closest bro", bothers me. The guy hasn't even told his own mother. How can you be so in love with someone but not wanting to tell your family and friends? I feel like the entire relationship in general needs to be re-examined... If you're so ashamed of your actions, maybe you should rethink the decisions you're making, that goes for the marriage and the abortion.

So anyway, there's a party this weekend, and I've already decided not to go because they will be there, but it's only a matter of time before the avoidance becomes blatantly obvious. I'm avoiding because I will not pretend that I'm happy for them and everything is rainbows and butterflies. I can be civil, but not cordial, I'm not the type to be two-faced, and I'm terrible at it anyway. When I don't like someone or they've made me angry, it's obvious, I absolutely can not hide it.

I don't know how to get over this. Normally, when I don't like people, in all honesty, I take it back to myself. I think it's a lack of understanding on my part and I really try to give people a chance, and most of the time it works out. But this is one of those things, where I'm so fundamentally offended, I don't know that I can get over this. I really believe that when people have tough decisions to make, when it's push comes to shove, that's when someone's true character comes out. And I feel this rings true with this girl, and sad to say, with my husband's best friend...my friend. I'm very sad, and I don't know if I'm being unreasonable or what I should do. So please, any help...

(Also, I forgot to mention that he already has two kids and his previous fiancee is moving from across country so he can be with his kids, one of which is only 2 months old, and they also felt the timing was bad for a baby). Regardless, I'm still pissed.

 

[Faye]

So does your husband's friend, the man, want the baby? I'm confused. Why were they fighting?

I agree that what they are doing is terrible, but I think they get what they deserve. They're 30 and they don't seem to know how to have a relationship better than a couple of 14 year olds. I thought at that age, people wouldn't care what others think because they're both adults.

My point is that the abortion seems to be a product of their poor relationship. Why else would they want to wait? They must have a set of "only ifs" about their relationship, but really they're old enough that they should take responsibility and make those "only ifs" happen or not care about them. How can they be engaged at 30 and be this irresponsible?

I agree that it is a selfish to abort the baby given their situation. There actually isn't anything you can do about it. If I were you, I'd probably give them a piece of my mind, but my official advice is to not give way to anger. Immature people do dumb things, and it usually isn't worth the effort to try and stop them.

I think you should either try to dissuade the women from having the abortion or drop the matter. Staying angry is only going to hurt you.

 

[foureyes]

I understand. That is so sad. I'm sorry. That must be so hard.
Maybe one way you could think about is as if she had never even gotten pregnant, then the baby woldn't have been born but its just a wasted oppurtunity. It's not as if your a murderer everytime you get you period.
Sometimes thinking in terms like this helps me. I dk if this is what'll work for you but hopefully you'll find someway to come to terms with it.
That's such a hard situation. I'm so sorry for everyone involed.

 

[acd]

Are they aware of the after effects abortion can have on a relationship? Even just on a person psychologically?
Ultimately the choice is theirs.

 

[Blind Bandit]

I have been mulling this over for DAYS... Waking up at all hours, laying in bed, trying to prevent the fuming... Please bear with me as I type this out as I'm really not sure what to do and I'd appreciate any and all advice.

My husband and I have a friend (actually, his best friend). This friend and his fiancee have decided to terminate her pregnancy tomorrow (Monday).

Before I go further, let me say that I'm more or less pro-choice. I don't like abortion, but I can at least *understand* some reasons for having them: rape, life threatening risks, etc.

I realize that their choice isn't really any of my business and I know there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. What I also know, is that I'm not sure I can continue being friends with my husband's best friend (which makes me enormously sad) or his fiancee (which, I didn't really like anyway), or even be in the same room with them without me daydreaming about punching them in the face.

Ok, so... My friend's fiancee went to my husband for advice. She thought she might want it, but had never really wanted kids, he thought he'd like to have a family with her, but somehow felt they weren't ready, etc, etc. So, basically my husband was trying to mediate between the two because they were fighting about it. She asked my husband not to tell anyone, but I'm his wife, he's not going to keep secrets from me, and then of course the fiancee got all pissed that I knew about it (can't say I blame her, but spouses normally aren't people you want to keep secrets from, especially a burden like this, my husband feels the way I do).

These "friends" are not teenagers, they're both nearly 30. So, they definitely know where babies come from and how it happens. This is where I get absolutely livid. I wasn't there, but from what my husband told me, she had stated that she doesn't want this baby, but maybe sometime later on in the future. What the hell? My husband had suggested maybe they give it up for adoption, and her response was: "But it'd be too hard because I'd probably want it then". God help me! You're afraid to give up the baby for adoption because you may love it, so the better alternative is to abort it?!? I'm mad at both of them, but I'm mainly pissed at her, because regardless of what he thinks, she has the ultimate say. And I think her reasons are absolute bullshit motivated by selfishness. But anyway, the plan to abort tomorrow is still on and I feel sick to my stomach. I don't feel like inconvenience and selfishness are good enough reasons for abortion.

The whole thing just has me foaming at the mouth. I was so upset and in tears when I found out, and though my husband and I talked it out for hours, I just can't seem to shake my anger and disappointment. I really care about my husband's friend, it would be hurtful to end the relationship with him, and so that's really the reason for posting this. The fiancee, I don't give a damn about. I didn't feel like she was a good match for our friend from the beginning, for reasons I won't mention here, but I was trying to work through those feelings for the sake of my husband and friend's relationship, but now... Oh God, I don't think I could prevent myself from bitching them out. My husband is immensly bothered by the whole thing, but his INTJ abilities are helping him work through it.

And this is just part of it, it got out that they're actually planning on getting married next year (they've only been together for a few months), and the fact that he didn't tell my husband, who is his "closest bro", bothers me. The guy hasn't even told his own mother. How can you be so in love with someone but not wanting to tell your family and friends? I feel like the entire relationship in general needs to be re-examined... If you're so ashamed of your actions, maybe you should rethink the decisions you're making, that goes for the marriage and the abortion.

So anyway, there's a party this weekend, and I've already decided not to go because they will be there, but it's only a matter of time before the avoidance becomes blatantly obvious. I'm avoiding because I will not pretend that I'm happy for them and everything is rainbows and butterflies. I can be civil, but not cordial, I'm not the type to be two-faced, and I'm terrible at it anyway. When I don't like someone or they've made me angry, it's obvious, I absolutely can not hide it.

I don't know how to get over this. Normally, when I don't like people, in all honesty, I take it back to myself. I think it's a lack of understanding on my part and I really try to give people a chance, and most of the time it works out. But this is one of those things, where I'm so fundamentally offended, I don't know that I can get over this. I really believe that when people have tough decisions to make, when it's push comes to shove, that's when someone's true character comes out. And I feel this rings true with this girl, and sad to say, with my husband's best friend...my friend. I'm very sad, and I don't know if I'm being unreasonable or what I should do. So please, any help...

(Also, I forgot to mention that he already has two kids and his previous fiancee is moving from across country so he can be with his kids, one of which is only 2 months old, and they also felt the timing was bad for a baby). Regardless, I'm still pissed.

This is complicated there is not doubt. And I do tend to agree with you. I can't help it. I'm also pro choice but its such a gray area.

But be careful judging this person. We must remember we as human beings we very much the type to take on great burdens if we feel it is needed. But this is not everyone and we can't blame them excessively for that.

Also as hard as it is. We must also remember that sometimes we can't change things at least not the way we want.

I admit I do find this odd because they sound realistically stable. So the only reason I can find is if they don't want kids.

There is no good option really. Adoption is no guarantee for a good life.

And we must also remember this will most likely do emotional damage.

My advice is to separate from this issue for a while and reconsider this quandary later . Becasue even on the outside I'm having trouble being objective.

There is, as I think most would agree no easy answer.

What would they do if the situation was reversed?

And how much do you value there friendship?

I'm sorry I can't give better advice but this is such a personal issue I can't be sure I would give you the right advice.

 

[Black Swan]

So does your husband's friend, the man, want the baby? I'm confused. Why were they fighting?

Honestly Dragon, I wasn't there so I'm not exactly sure about who said what. All I know is that at one point and time, he said he could picture them with a family and said he wished she was the mother of his kids, but she didn't want kids. Then she got pregnant, then he was all for the abortion, but she wasn't... I think it was all a timing issue because she doesn't have a job or insurance and has been living with him, and then he has kids coming from halfway across the country, she has no family here, etc. They had a million reasons.

I think you should either try to dissuade the women from having the abortion or drop the matter. Staying angry is only going to hurt you.

If I knew her better, I'd try to stop it. But when my husband told her that I knew what was going on, he said she was obviously pissed. And considering I don't know her that well, it makes it even more so "not my business". I'll think about it. But it's already 9 pm where I am and the abortion is tomorrow.

Maybe one way you could think about is as if she had never even gotten pregnant, then the baby woldn't have been born but its just a wasted oppurtunity.

Perhaps, I can try, although this line of thinking has never helped me in the past. Either way, I'm desperate.

Are they aware of the after effects abortion can have on a relationship?

I really don't know... And even if they are, I think it's one of those situations where they wouldn't realize the extent of the damage until it's too late. I don't think the relationship will last regardless, especially if this type of selfishness is running rampant in the relationship. It's all very confusing. They want it kept a secret, ONLY my husband and myself know... So they seem ashamed, which makes me believe they don't feel good about what they're doing. But, the fiancee had the audacity to tease my husband about being speechless when she told him, frankly, I don't think it's a laughing matter. So, besides themselves, I don't know what the hell they're thinking or what they think they know.

What would they do if the situation was reversed?

And how much do you value there friendship?

I'm sorry I can't give better advice but this is such a personal issue I can't be sure I would give you the right advice.

No, thank you. You raise good points and I have thought about them at great length. I've been in the situation their in. My husband and I decided before we got married that we probably did not want kids, and if we did, we'd be 30+ before we had any... And so naturally we got pregnant almost immediately.

And I was terrified and devastated. We knew our options, but I also knew abortion was not an option for me, and so did he. And now, it makes me sick to even remember that the thought had crossed my mind when I was pregnant. My family is my world, it puts me in a panic to think that my daughter could have never existed. So, it's not like I don't understand the emotions they were initially going through, but I still can't find an ounce of sympathy for them.

 

[54192&#cmy]

I have been threw this and it really is none of your business. Your husband had no right involving you in it. And if the both of you choose to not hang out with them after, that is up to you. At least have the guts to tell them why you don't want to be around them anymore and sever the relationship. It's not your duty to tell them what to do. It is their life after all. Let them live it. And suffer in it. No need for you to drag yourself and your marriage threw the ringer over your husbands friend. It's a shame that they are doing it. But they have their reasons. Some things your better off not knowing and I am suspecting that your husband's friend knew that you would be upset and that is the reason he did not want you to know. Your husband from my point of view was wrong to tell you and break the trust he had with his friend. If I was friends with your husband we would not be talking anymore.

 

[Faye]

That sucks. I got the impression you knew them somewhat. I guess it isn't your business then. I still hate the idea of a life going to waste like that though.

Honestly though, I doubt that you could persuade her to not have the abortion. They'll just get mad.

 

[slant]

I'm quite surprised by what I'm reading. I don't understand such strong moral convictions against an issue that doesn't appear to even remotely effect you.

The thing is, if you don't want a kid you don't want a kid. The only reason to have a kid is if you WANT to have a kid. So what if they were irresponsible. What's the biggie?

I think in order to solve this problem you need to solve why this thing is troubling you so much. You said you didn't like this girl in the first place, so perhaps you are building a bunch of your held back emotions on this one event, and this is 'the breaking point'. That's one theory.

But you really need more information in order to compute for yourself what the solution is.

 

[Black Swan]

I have been threw this and it really is none of your business. Your husband had no right involving you in it. And if the both of you choose to not hang out with them after, that is up to you. At least have the guts to tell them why you don't want to be around them anymore and sever the relationship. It's not your duty to tell them what to do. It is their life after all. Let them live it. And suffer in it. No need for you to drag yourself and your marriage threw the ringer over your husbands friend. It's a shame that they are doing it. But they have their reasons. Some things your better off not knowing and I am suspecting that your husband's friend knew that you would be upset and that is the reason he did not want you to know. Your husband from my point of view was wrong to tell you and break the trust he had with his friend. If I was friends with your husband we would not be talking anymore.

That's fine and all, but I'm TRYING to salvage what is here. Could've, would've, should've- DIDN'T.

Honestly, you can't tell your best friend something this big and expect them not to have any feelings and concerns about it. And it wasn't his best friend that initially told him, it was the fiancee who came to my husband and put him right smack in the middle of their fight...

And to my husband's defense, it wasn't all him, she had sent an e-mail to him, and I happened to be sitting there with him when he opened it and I saw part of it before he told me I shouldn't read it anymore, but I had already seen that she was pregnant... so the abortion part would've been made obvious at some point. It also didn't help that she said not to tell anyone in a secondary message and he already explained before then.

I realize your point about not betraying trust and I agree. But my husband would never betray his best friend and his friend didn't have a problem with me knowing, it was specifically the fiancee. But this is ALL besides the point. They're still friends and I'm trying to keep it that way if at all possible.

 

[Black Swan]

And to clear this up because it's getting confused...

I've KNOWN my husband's best friend for several years now, we are friends.

The fiancee...she's only been around for maybe 3 months. The ONLY reason why I give a damn about any of this is because of our friend. God forbid I should be concerned for a friend and the relationship between my husband and his best friend.

 

[Black Swan]

I'm quite surprised by what I'm reading. I don't understand such strong moral convictions against an issue that doesn't appear to even remotely effect you.

Genocide, murder, rape... Those things don't directly affect me either but that doesn't mean I'm okay with it. You don't seem to realize the presence the best friend has in our life, which is probably my fault. They have been together through thick and thin, my husband lived with his family when he was just a kid and his mom took off to another state. And though the friend is not MY "best friend" he is a valued friend and would come to visit or call me even when my husband isn't around, he is like family, and my husband refers to him as a brother rather than a friend, and my daughter calls him "uncle".

The thing is, if you don't want a kid you don't want a kid. The only reason to have a kid is if you WANT to have a kid. So what if they were irresponsible. What's the biggie?

I'm not even going to go here, because though I do disagree what they're doing, that's not the point of the post.

 

[slant]

That was my opinion part of the post, the second part of my post was my advice

 

[54192&#cmy]

There is too many spiderwebs to clear out. My only advice I can give is to be supportive of your husbands friend and council him. In the end he will have to live with the grief. I was not trying to offend I knew it was a loaded question going in so I expected some heat and miss communication. Maybe his fiance is not the one for him. I am thinking I should have just kept my mouth shut, these kinda discussions always get too messy and complicated. And in the end they just cause drama forget what I said.... I knew better...

 

[Black Swan]

I am thinking I should have just kept my mouth shut, these kinda discussions always get too messy and complicated. And in the end they just cause drama forget what I said.... I knew better...

That was my opinion part of the post, the second part of my post was my advice

Slant, Efromm- I'm very sorry. I appreciate both of you posting.

I'm just very emotional right now and I know I'm probably not thinking clearly. And Efromm, there are so many more spiderwebs, I just decided to leave as much of those out as possible because it just makes it all that more complicated.

I really do appreciate the responses, please forgive my defensiveness, I'm all nerves right now.

:grouphug:

 

[slant]

Alright well I'll come back when you're ready to talk


-if- you're ready to talk.

 

[Blind Bandit]

I'm quite surprised by what I'm reading. I don't understand such strong moral convictions against an issue that doesn't appear to even remotely effect you.

The thing is, if you don't want a kid you don't want a kid. The only reason to have a kid is if you WANT to have a kid. So what if they were irresponsible. What's the biggie?

I think in order to solve this problem you need to solve why this thing is troubling you so much. You said you didn't like this girl in the first place, so perhaps you are building a bunch of your held back emotions on this one event, and this is 'the breaking point'. That's one theory.

But you really need more information in order to compute for yourself what the solution is.

I can explain this pretty easily. Your a T so this wouldn't make much sense. But this is pretty much Fe at work. This is common for an INFJ we feel stuff like this a lot. And I'm not surprised at all at the frustration. Swan is feeling.

So ya I know whats it like to feel this and its something that takes time to get over. Its part of being INFJ or even an F.

I do think this women doesn't really know what she is getting her self into. And I admit I find it a little moronic they weren't more careful but again there isn't many options here.

I only hope it doesn't run there relationship.

 

[Black Swan]

So ya I know whats it like to feel this and its something that takes time to get over. Its part of being INFJ or even an F.

LOL, I just messaged Slant talking about the working through process and how I must "try on a solution" before I decide it's the right one. I've already been engrossed in this everyday for a week.

 

[slant]

But, what if the woman is a T who's having the abortion?

 

[Black Swan]

But, what if the woman is a T who's having the abortion?

It's not a question so much about the abortion as it is how can I and my husband (who is a T) cope, without it negatively affecting the relationship with the primary friend? The abortion is going to happen tomorrow, my husband said that she is dead set on it and nothing is going to change her mind.

It is very complicated and I think someone earlier mentioned "build-up" which is probably accurate as well, but even if there wasn't any build-up, the way it's being handled, I think it's just really revealing about the fiancee's character in particular, to such a negative extent that we just don't know how to deal with it. And neither of us is too happy with the primary friend either, but we love him and we don't want to ruin a friendship that's been intact for many years.