Cultivating Compassion

[AUM]

compassion isn't an action, it's an emotional response to the suffering of others. The best way to increase your sense of compassion is to live in the suffering of others and then return to your normal life. Coming out of the suffering will ultimately change you perspective on the life and luxuries you have.

After that it's up to the individual to act on their new perspective and compassion.

heh, how ironic. Your post was my original stance on compassion before this thread.

 

[Barnabas]

so what is your stance now then?







also are you sure your using Irony correctly? in that your response or action caused the opposite affect of what you were trying to achieve.


(the former question is more important, the later is thirty five percent a joke )

 

[AUM]

so what is your stance now then?

From post #12

"I was thinking, compassion does involve action, but my problem was that I was confusing non-action as no action. Sometimes the best thing to do in a situation is not to do anything, but this decision comes from a much higher perspective that this non-action will reap into a positive outcome in the future.

It still involves doing, but in a way that still respects the integrity of the free will of others. Not interfering can sometimes be the greatest act of compassion one can show to others."

My first stance was that action was not required in order to have compassion, but after speaking with kiu about it, I then agreed that compassion involves an urge to relieve the suffering of others which requires either non-action(which is not the same as no action) or direct action in where you go and do your best to mitigate the suffering of others.

also are you sure your using Irony correctly? in that your response or action caused the opposite affect of what you were trying to achieve.


(the former question is more important, the later is thirty five percent a joke )

Yeah, you're probably right. "Ironic" wasn't the word I was looking for, maybe I should have said, "interesting" or something to that effect.

 

[Barnabas]

From post #12

"I was thinking, compassion does involve action, but my problem was that I was confusing non-action as no action. Sometimes the best thing to do in a situation is not to do anything, but this decision comes from a much higher perspective that this non-action will reap into a positive outcome in the future.

It still involves doing, but in a way that still respects the integrity of the free will of others. Not interfering can sometimes be the greatest act of compassion one can show to others."

My first stance was that action was not required in order to have compassion, but after speaking with kiu about it, I then agreed that compassion involves an urge to relieve the suffering of others which requires either non-action(which is not the same as no action) or direct action in where you go and do your best to mitigate the suffering of others.






Yeah, you're probably right. "Ironic" wasn't the word I was looking for, maybe I should have said, "interesting" or something to that effect.

I would make the distinction between compassion and conviction, compassion being the feeling and understanding of the pain and suffering of others, conviction being the urge to fix, solve and/or heal the pain and suffering.


I do agree it that in some situations it's better to wait and watch as opposed to actively trying to fix someones problems. It's wisdom though that is needed to know when to help.

 

[justeccentricnotinsane]

Empathy/compassion - innate understanding of another person's motives, struggles, feelings, drivers - everything that makes them them.

Sympathy - giving a shit, feeling bad for them, sometimes includes forgiveness.

I have empathy/compassion for all people.

My sympathy depends on what my empathy tells me. If I look at a person and see good motives, intentions, drivers, they have my sympathy for their feelings. If I look at a person and see bad motives, intentions, drivers, they do not have my sympathy for their feelings.

In other words: Everyone is equal thereby everyone should play by the same rules. If you break the rules - let's say you cheat on your partner with somebody and your partner splits up with you - that is actually your fault. If you are a good person at heart that feels genuine remorse (rather than just being pissed off because you didn't get away with it) - if, like any good person, you are beating yourself up about doing wrong to another person, about upsetting another person, you have my sympathy. If you are going to say: "They're overreacting, it's just a mistakes, they're being so uncompassionate to MY feelings" - you deserve what you get.

Basically - if your selfishness gets you hurt and you are a person who is constantly selfish and does not feel remorse, I don't care how you feel - I hope you feel bad because maybe you will learn.

If your selfishness gets you hurt and you are a person who is not normally selfish, who truly wants to treat people well, who feels terrible for their deed - I don't want you to feel bad. I want you to forgive yourself and move on.

now let's say you're a complete arsehole but I know you had abusive parents or I pick up from your behaviour that you have probably had an abusive past. I have compassion. I say "I understand why they're doing this" but that does not make what they're doing right. And for that reason, I do not have sympathy for what they have done. I have sympathy for what they have been through, but I do not have sympathy for any malicious act they may then do. Most malicious acts are borne of low self esteem. I understand this. I have compassion. I have sympathy for the fact the person does not like themselves or feels insecure. I do not feel sympathy for any malicious deeds they undertake. They may be struggling, I have compassion and sympathy for that, but there are no excuses, no justifications. I do not have to feel sorry for them if anything bad happens to them as a direct result of their maliciousness. They deserved it.

That's the difference between empathy and sympathy.

You don't cultivate compassion. If you are very unempathic, you may need to learn patterns within people to approximate what might be going through their minds rather than it being an automatic intuitive process. People with automatic intuitive empathy learned to do that very, very young, which is why it does not feel learned. It is always learned, but some people lean that way in their early years (Ni is paramount to empathy because it "magically" knows - its a set of experiences into which you catalogue new info to see where it fits and what it means).

 

[not sure]

I'm guessing that the reflection took place before the incident when you came to the conclusion that a child's life is more important than your own.

For some reason this reflection doesn't count for me. In a situation as you described, I would expect the fight or flight response would be paramount. An attempt to save the child may have more to do with the survival of the race than for any special compassion for children. Also the person who may well have compassion under less pressing circumstances may very well be rooted to the spot.

Go spend a week homeless on the street, then move to a third world country and stay there for a month or more. Then come back to the U.S. and realize how great your life is.

I have lived my entire life in a third world country. What effect is that to have on my compassion?

 

[Faye]

I was under the impression that it happens on its own if you meditate.

My other suggestion would be to volunteer to do things to help people, and then that would also cultivate it.

 

[Radiantshadow]

Look at a hive of ants for a while, see how they work together to make Home home.
Find a recount of how a dolphin has saved a human's life out of free will.
Locate a picture of Antarctica and compare it to, say, America's New York or Chicago -
observe how such difference can come from a once-unified object.

Understanding how small one really is, yet how great one's ripples can be;
that is compassion, I believe. Validation of a separate entity based purely
on the premise of mutuality.

[MENTION=1848]Barnabas[/MENTION],

this input might be a tad late, for which I apologize; however,
being homeless does not cultivate compassion, nor does it
often produce any positive effect or doorway. Rising
after being kicked when down is not an easy thing to do,
by any means, and often leaves horrible scars and bitterness.
Any place has a "worse than thou" scenario if you look hard enough -
the obvious places are not always the most profound or impacting.

----

I wonder: how often is compassion considered analogous to altruism?
The former can be quite self-centered, considering everything we do
is a reflection of ourselves instead of others. I must question whether
altruism actually exists; can anyone verify or dismantle this?

 

[DrShephard]

Cultivating Compassion

Exactly What It Says.

How do you do it?
</ponder>

Let us dig a little bit: Why do you want to cultivate compassion?

I listened to a zen lecture once where the students did an exercise that I remember in particular. Students were asked to write a list down of their spiritual ideals - what they wanted to be more like. Here is a list of most of the things that were said:

Compassion, priority on the welfare of others, accepting things as they are, generosity, peacefulness, monetary contentment, enlightenment, radiant inner beauty, unconditional love, daily practice, going on retreats, having good relationships with teachers, being joyful, friendly, wise, help children and the homeless and the elderly.

Then they were asked to look at each of their lists and were asked to describe that person. No surprises on what the answers there were... boring, lame, non-existent, and mum.

Then they were asked to write a second list. The second list was "What do you feel like when you are totally alive?" What were the answers to this? Enthusiastic, energetic, connected, powerful, spontaneous, fearless, creative, generous, joyful, aware, dangerous.

And then they were asked how this second person sounded, and the students laughed. The teacher continued, saying that THIS list is what you're aiming at in Buddhism - the second, and not the first. The spiritual items in the first list are what happen when you are awake in the second. When you actively become what you aspire to (those items in the first list) then you become dead, lifeless, and boring. Buddhism isn't about being a nice person. It's about being awake, which is experiencing everything that is arising.

I paraphrase all that not to say "listen to a buddhist teacher", which is an absurdity - they are simply just people like you and me. I say it because I have found that it is absolutely true. The person who has learned to be compassionate is only a ruse of compassion. The person who is who they actually are never had to learn anything, and only confused themselves attempting to be someone that they're not. So get off your high horse of aspirations and stop trying to be something you aren't.

In conclusion: FUCK COMPASSION. Let's fight instead. Or lounge.

*sips his courvoisier*

 

[Radiantshadow]

^ Agreed. Compassion on its own is worth little, it must walk hand-in-hand with other things and be a product of activity.

(Unless I misunderstood you, DrShephard?)

 

[Kmal]

[MENTION=3454]DrShephard[/MENTION] it's not one or the other. you can be compassionate and awake. some people are more people oriented than others, and when they are awake, they're quite a bit different than others who arent people oriented, and awake.

^ Agreed. Compassion on its own is worth little, it must walk hand-in-hand with other things and be a product of activity.

(Unless I misunderstood you, DrShephard?)

a big ol' meh. helping others helps yourself, usually. if it doesnt, more than likely you wont help them. not to be misconstrued as selfish, because you help them to help them, yet you still profit.

compassion is needed to improve the way people interact with one another. compassion doesnt mean youre a pussy.

 

[Radiantshadow]

@DrShephard it's not one or the other. you can be compassionate and awake. some people are more people oriented than others, and when they are awake, they're quite a bit different than others who arent people oriented, and awake.


a big ol' meh. helping others helps yourself, usually. if it doesnt, more than likely you wont help them. not to be misconstrued as selfish, because you help them to help them, yet you still profit.

compassion is needed to improve the way people interact with one another. compassion doesnt mean youre a pussy.

Humans are social creatures, to varying degrees.
It follows that one stretch the social muscle,
or negative things will fill the void.
What we do is inherently tied to ourselves,
everything "there" is filtered through me, "here" -
then action is decided. Compassion is a tool for
productivity; in itself it is fairly function-less.

I agree with your first statement, however
I don't believe I ever said compassion led to
emotional weakness (?) . To my mind, it's
an amplifier and gateway for other things -
like change, love, validation, and/or reinforcement.
These are good things when applied in moderation.

 

[DrShephard]

Humans are social creatures, to varying degrees.
It follows that one stretch the social muscle,
or negative things will fill the void.
What we do is inherently tied to ourselves,
everything "there" is filtered through me, "here" -
then action is decided. Compassion is a tool for
productivity; in itself it is fairly function-less.

I agree with your first statement, however
I don't believe I ever said compassion led to
emotional weakness (?) . To my mind, it's
an amplifier and gateway for other things -
like change, love, validation, and/or reinforcement.
These are good things when applied in moderation.

I want to learn to love every single child molester and murderer.
I want to serve and kneel before every rapist because I have compassion for them.
I look up to every wife-and-child-physical-and-emotional abuser. I want to feel lower than them so that I may admire and have compassion for them.
I want to cry for how much I love them as they nail me to the cross, like Jesus.
I want to be a spiritual model who is victimized. Hurt me, please. Make me know I am less than.

 

[Barnabas]

[MENTION=1848]Barnabas[/MENTION],

this input might be a tad late, for which I apologize; however,
being homeless does not cultivate compassion, nor does it
often produce any positive effect or doorway. Rising
after being kicked when down is not an easy thing to do,
by any means, and often leaves horrible scars and bitterness.
Any place has a "worse than thou" scenario if you look hard enough -
the obvious places are not always the most profound or impacting.

oh my, he he, do you expect life to be easy, do you expect to not have any scars

 

[Radiantshadow]

oh my, he he, do you expect life to be easy, do you expect to not have any scars

Not what I was referring to; one must purify one's collective self before moving to cleanse somewhere else.

Personally, I know pain quite well. Life is not easy, I never meant to suggest it was nor should be.
Assume less, please. Psychoanalysis via the Internet is always flawed.

Edit: Apologies for snappiness, 84th hour without sleep.

Homelessness does not grant the humility required for compassion.
Pain is a necessity of life, but not a class that everyone always learns from.

^ is what I tried to convey, in addition to the above reason.

 

[Lerxst]

One word...


em

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Get your mind off: how the situation could be improved; how their situation affects you; how they have contributed to their situation.


After all of that, all there is left is them and their situation.


Voila. Compassion.

 

[randomsomeone]

When I think of compassion and moving more in that direction, I think of Jesus' words, "Father forgive them, they don't know what they are doing." (I find this same idea, using different words, comes up often in Jesus' interactions with others).

Anyway, this idea of "they don't know what they are doing" accounts for much of what I observe happening in the world and in others, and the idea does help to peel back circumstances, rhetoric, and drama to get at a more core issue....and a certain compassion can be found there, for me anyway.

 

[Trifoilum]

Alright! Thanks for the answers <3

When you have experienced the pain of putting your hand on the fire, you shall understand the pain of others who will do the same at some point.

Understanding someone's pain is not always sufficient motivation to do anything to relieve it.

I don't think compassion involves relieving others from suffering, I think it only acknowledges and understands the pain of others.

Of course, compassion may lead towards action, especially when there's abuse involved and exploitation.

True, and also not true; aside from the blurred line between action and inaction (namely, personally, timing and amount, and decision), understanding pain does not always lead to compassion; but it would be one heck of an important point.
Personally, I interpret your definition as empathy or even sympathy. If there is no desire to relieve suffering then as far as I'm concerned it is not compassion. It is not necessary to actually relieve pain. I acknowledge my previous sentence was deficient in not distinguishing. No two words in English supposedly are exactly synonymous. Therefore, empathy < sympathy < compassion. However, this is a personal interpretation.[/QUOTE]
Now this I am personally ... agreed, at least insofar as empathy < sympathy. As for compassion, I personally believed it's a separate being that can fuel those two.

Actually I take back what I said @kiu. I was thinking, compassion does involve action, but my problem was that I was confusing non-action as no action.

Not interfering can sometimes be the greatest act of compassion one can show to others.

True.

Compassion actually starts with "I'm not so sure I want to be understanding or giving but for some reason, I'd like to give you a chance or a second chance" or "I think you should have this or need this more than I do so you should have it."

In other words, it's not always based entirely in an unselfish, perfectly humble feeling. Sometimes, it's spontaneous.

Wouldn't that be forgiveness, or even charity? All of which are related, of course. I agreed about the spontaneity, it does exist.

The act on saving a child from a running car.. Not that it can't; but it may just be logical / instinctive in nature ('children's life are precious'), or say, honorable, or even without any thought. It'd be on the eye of the beholder, but I'd say more often it wouldn't be compassionate, unless, of course, there's buildup.

....to be continued, I guess.

 

[Trifoilum]

Go spend a week homeless on the street, then move to a third world country and stay there for a month or more. Then come back to the U.S. and realize how great your life is.

Unfortunately realizing how great your life is will not change the life of those living in third world countries or those who are homeless.

Agreed to [MENTION=678]AUM[/MENTION]. Wouldn't this be more of a gratitude? But then;

compassion isn't an action, it's an emotional response to the suffering of others. The best way to increase your sense of compassion is to live in the suffering of others and then return to your normal life. Coming out of the suffering will ultimately change you perspective on the life and luxuries you have.

After that it's up to the individual to act on their new perspective and compassion.

This is an interesting way to look at it. It makes sense with consideration of the definition of 'compassion = emotional response'.

The real compassionate would live in those places permanently and do all they can to mitigate their suffering.

Wasn't that what Jesus did? He could've stayed in heaven, but he chose to come to this shit hole and do something about it. At least that's how the bible portrays him as.

This, OTOH, if I may to be pedantic, would be sacrifice; altruism, perhaps. Which is higher than compassion, because it put another factor in the equation; expectations.

I would make the distinction between compassion and conviction, compassion being the feeling and understanding of the pain and suffering of others, conviction being the urge to fix, solve and/or heal the pain and suffering.

in short, compassion is less...pushy, than conviction? Less rigid?