Bush was a religious nutjob?

[Shai Gar]

If you believe what politicians say you are naive at best. Even thier actions are specially formulated to manipulate you.

Are you an idiot? I said they make appeals to it. I didn't say that they try to achieve it.

NeoCon is democrat code word for Republican Jews by the way so be careful about tossing it around.

No. You've obviously got no idea about politics. This was foreshadowed in your talking about "Right" and "Left", but definitely nailed down with this post. Bush was a neocon, and he's not jewish. Madison was a NeoCon, and nor was he.

The Bush Era administration hearkened back, closer to the early Federalists than to the Republicans of Lincoln's time... Men more interested in appearing conservative, but building empires and making the USA into an aristocracy at the expense of the citizenry. That's NeoCon.

Uh... No.

You've managed to convince me you are completely talking out of your ass, Billy.

Aye.

Bingo, which brings me to the crux of why I cant stand Democrats. They want to be judged for their appeals and intentions and not their actions, you cant have racial equality by denying white firefighters promotions just because a black one hadn't been in that specific group. Sotomyer just got put on the supreme court though.

That's called Racism. I'm convinced that in other countries Affirmative Action is counter-productive to the advancement of equality between genders/creeds/religions. But given the extreme amount of racism I see from Americans (not on this site, on other forums I debate on), it seems necessary in the U.S.

 

[Shai Gar]

I am a Conservative. Probably one of the few true conservatives. My politics are similar to Disraeli and the Tories.

 

[the]

Originally Posted by uberrogo
If you believe what politicians say you are naive at best. Even thier actions are specially formulated to manipulate you.

Are you an idiot? I said they make appeals to it. I didn't say that they try to achieve it.

I'm not sure why I was quoted for this. Perhaps you believe politicians and are angry at me for pointing out your idiocy?

 

[Arg]

Bingo, which brings me to the crux of why I cant stand Democrats. They want to be judged for their appeals and intentions and not their actions....

For the past decade nearly every policy the Republican administration passed was a reactionary one. I'm not sure which is worse; no actions or a succession of bad knee-jerk reactions.

 

[BenW]

For the past decade nearly every policy the Republican administration passed was a reactionary one. I'm not sure which is worse; no actions or a succession of bad knee-jerk reactions.

The democrats prettymuch missed to bus on the sub-prime bubble, if you are trying to make a comparison. The best they can do is mumble "more regulation" every now and then, as if more golden parachutes will give companies motivation to not fuck people over for short term personal gain, when in reality it just reaffirms the assurance that the US taxpayer will be held accountable in the end.

Get rid of regulation, and companies that make idiotic decisions will sink, rather than get "bailed out".
Suddenly, we'd find a lot fewer intentionally idiotic decisions being made...

The truth is, they were just as much of a cause of it.
It started with the late Clinton administration, really.

 

[Arg]

I should have been more clear. I wasn't referring to who's to blame for the present economy but Iraq, Afghanistan, and the Patriot Acts.

 

[BenW]

I should have been more clear. I wasn't referring to who's to blame for the present economy mainly Iraq, Afghanistan, and the Patriot Acts.

They sure as hell didn't have any issue with going into Afghanistan.
And Iraq had the at least tacit support of most congressional Democrats.

The Patriot Act was snuck through congress so fast that nobody really had a chance to read it before they could vote on it.
Moderate Republicans and libertarians hated it.

 

[Arg]

the Republican administration .

Not all conservatives.

 

[samson2908]

They sure as hell didn't have any issue with going into Afghanistan.
And Iraq had the at least tacit support of most congressional Democrats.

The Patriot Act was snuck through congress so fast that nobody really had a chance to read it before they could vote on it.
Moderate Republicans and libertarians hated it.

were there only 3 moderate republicans? House and Senate votes for Patriot act(2001 & 2006)

 

[Shai Gar]

I'm not sure why I was quoted for this. Perhaps you believe politicians and are angry at me for pointing out your idiocy?

Because you ignored the crux of my argument.

 

[the]

Because you ignored the crux of my argument.

I ignored your entire arguement.

 

[BenW]

were there only 3 moderate republicans? House and Senate votes for Patriot act(2001 & 2006)

You didn't really pay attention to what I said, clearly.

The Patriot Act was available to be read for FIFTEEN MINUTES before voting on it started.
Fifteen minutes is nowhere near enough time to gain any understand of a bill that size.

Everyone who voted for the Patriot Act was pressured into doing so, and knew nothing about what they were really voting for at the time.

 

[Shai Gar]

The Patriot Act was snuck through congress so fast that nobody really had a chance to read it before they could vote on it.

"That bit there pisses me off though
no legislation should go through parliament EVER, without the nation voting on it
if people are to be effected by it, they should have a vote on it.
with the vote a year after it's introduced
so that people can really look at it."
- Shai in an MSN Conversation.

 

[BenW]

Not all conservatives.

So the people voting on these resolutions are blameless, eh?
If you say so.

 

[samson2908]

You didn't really pay attention to what I said, clearly.

The Patriot Act was available to be read for FIFTEEN MINUTES before voting on it started.
Fifteen minutes is nowhere near enough time to gain any understand of a bill that size.

Everyone who voted for the Patriot Act was pressured into doing so, and knew nothing about what they were really voting for at the time.

understood. how then do you back up your statement about moderate republicans hating the patriot act? in 2006 every single republican senator voted for the patriot act again. only 13 republican representatives voted against it, compared to 3 in 2001. i think 4 and a half years is plenty of time to actually read it.

 

[Arg]

So the people voting on these resolutions are blameless, eh?
If you say so.

Well you did say they were hastily pressured into voting for the legislation presumably by the Bush Administration. You were perfectly willing to make excuses for them 5 minutes ago.

This thread has derailed a bit but after all it is about Bush and his administration but not Republicans as a whole.

 

[BenW]

understood. how then do you back up your statement about moderate republicans hating the patriot act? in 2006 every single republican senator voted for the patriot act again. only 13 republican representatives voted against it, compared to 3 in 2001. i think 4 and a half years is plenty of time to actually read it.

I'd be surprised if moderate congressional republicans numbered greatly more than 13, frankly.
The house republicans aren't largely known for being particularly moderate.

And in reflection, it's not accurate to say that everyone who voted for it was pressured into doing so.

Anyway, watch this.
[youtube]kNRSs6LsGeI[/youtube]

 

[BenW]

Well you did say they were hastily pressured into voting for the legislation presumably by the Bush Administration. You were perfectly willing to make excuses for them 5 minutes ago.

This thread has derailed a bit but after all it is about Bush and his administration but not Republicans as a whole.

I was refering specifically to the Patriot Act.

 

[samson2908]

nice. who was that guy?

 

[BenW]

Andrew Napolitano.
He's was a state judge for NJ.
One of the only libertarian minded judges in existence, sadly.
And a buddy of Ron Paul & co.