Brainstorm solutions to save the internet

[Quiet]

Clearly SOPA is terrifying, the future of the internet is at risk, and there is the ever present danger to internet integrity and security by acts of fascism and terrorism. These are some of the greatest threats that our generation has faced and they could fundemantaly stunt our evolution into a better humanity for all.

So what are we going to do?

What is a better way to distribute media and pay artirsts?

Can businesses pay a proportionate and fair fee to a media authority for use of copyrighted materials?

Should private citizens and non for profit businesses be exempt from piracy/copyright laws?

How can internet servers be more secure from acts of fascism and terrorism?

Is it possible to totally decentralise internet servers?

It is possible to operate internet servers under International law in secure protected locations in international waters?

Is open source a viable alternative to copyright and patenting?

Can we please brainstorm and get some discussion happening? These problems aren't going to fix themselves or go away, so lets all have a go!

 

[muir]

I'm gonna put a controversial view out here....i know that's out of character but anyway

I'm not sure i like the way the word 'artist' is used these days.

Apparently nowadays an 'artist' is someone who sings a song that someone else wrote whilst dancing in a way that they have been told to dance by a professional choreographer, after getting voiced trained by a voice coach, whilst having a producer tell them exactly how to sing it, will showing off the body they got through working with a personal trainer, with their hair styled by a stylist, their face painted by a make-up 'artist', their nails done by a manicurist, their clothes chosen by a fashion advisor in front of a set designed by a set designer on a tour organised by their manager who is paid by the record company who is owned by whoever is rich enough to run such an organisation and pays a Public Relations company to promote the 'artist'

Or an artist is someone who is directed by a director, voice coached, airbrushed, replaced by body doubles and stunt doubles, coregraphed etc in movies.

If copyright piracy means that the pop industry and Hollywood get less money and are less able to fill up the airwaves with complete shite then GOOD

Take the money out of these vacuous, facile, souless and meaningless industries and we might get some genuine artists who create art because they have something to actually say and see that as their contribution to the human experience rather than because they want to be rich and famous

The corporations are destroying any genuine culture and replacing it with a wall of meaningless noise

SOPA needs to be opposed because this isn't really about copyright infringment, this is about the power elite gaining greater control over the flows of information. We need to realise that the information and communication that the internet provides us with is infinately more valuable then some crappy pop songs or forget within a day movies.

They want the internet to be another corporate outlet not an open frontier of information and ideas.

 

[Quiet]

This is all true Muir. I hate all the manufactured, whitebread backwash drivel thats been spewed out by major record labels too. All this music amounts to is making people stupider and prevents real musicians from being heard. I feel the same about the majority of movies made. Sometimes you have to wonder why anyone would make something so stupid. But is seems that this crap does sell, they keep making it and people keep buying it because they are brainwashed into liking it.

The are also a lot of real artists that need to be compensated for their labours though

And as much as I hate the manufactured movement, these people also have the right to have their rubbish compensated.

Sopa isn't necessarily about copyright infringement but copyright infringement needs to be addressed so that the power elite have less excuses to control the flows of information. There must be a better way to make and distribute media

 

[Lerxst]

You know, I come from the "golden age" of video gaming and PC gaming. Back when developers had what was called "shareware" that let you test or play a program for a certain time or a certain distance before asking to give them money so they could continue developing more programs like that, or finish the one they let you test.

To me, that just makes good business sense and keeps everyone honest. You know where that money is going and you know what you're going to get.

I've also heard songs on the radio or other places without paying for them, liked them, researched the artists to find there were more songs they did that I liked and then I spent money on theirs songs and CDs.

In other words, if these people, companies or artists made materials and products that gained their customer's loyalty and respect, there would be no need to protect their materials with an iron fist.

It's the lawyers, agents, marketing firms, etc. that gain no respect from the fan-base. They're partly the ones interested in protecting the products so they can gain the most money out of them and they fuel the fire with their blatant disregard of the fans and the works they're supposed to "protect".

The other part of this equation are the "artists" and people who create an art work or a product for the sole purpose of making a profit, not for any greater cause or sake of art. These people are more interested in filling their own pockets than protecting any form of intellectual property.

Personally, I love Moby (the artist) not because I am a fan of his work, but because a good portion of his music is available free of charge for anyone looking to use or needing music for an independent project. Even if I don't like his music, he at least creates it for all the right reasons and he knows there are real people out there listening.

And this link even shows that the artists themselves don't even like the greedy politics involved in this crap the "companies" are trying to get away with:

http://torrentfreak.com/moby-the-riaa-needs-to-be-disbanded-090620/

 

[Quiet]

You know, I come from the "golden age" of video gaming and PC gaming. Back when developers had what was called "shareware" that let you test or play a program for a certain time or a certain distance before asking to give them money so they could continue developing more programs like that, or finish the one they let you test.

To me, that just makes good business sense and keeps everyone honest. You know where that money is going and you know what you're going to get.

I've also heard songs on the radio or other places without paying for them, liked them, researched the artists to find there were more songs they did that I liked and then I spent money on theirs songs and CDs.

In other words, if these people, companies or artists made materials and products that gained their customer's loyalty and respect, there would be no need to protect their materials with an iron fist.

It's the lawyers, agents, marketing firms, etc. that gain no respect from the fan-base. They're partly the ones interested in protecting the products so they can gain the most money out of them and they fuel the fire with their blatant disregard of the fans and the works they're supposed to "protect".

The other part of this equation are the "artists" and people who create an art work or a product for the sole purpose of making a profit, not for any greater cause or sake of art. These people are more interested in filling their own pockets than protecting any form of intellectual property.

Personally, I love Moby (the artist) not because I am a fan of his work, but because a good portion of his music is available free of charge for anyone looking to use or needing music for an independent project. Even if I don't like his music, he at least creates it for all the right reasons and he knows there are real people out there listening.

And this link even shows that the artists themselves don't even like the greedy politics involved in this crap the "companies" are trying to get away with:

http://torrentfreak.com/moby-the-riaa-needs-to-be-disbanded-090620/

Thanks for your response Lerxst

I love shareware too. It does make perfect business sense. You give people exactly what they want and let them experiment with it, and you secure a market base as well as a community of supporters.
I too have looked up music and purchased music after hearing it for free. Since I dont really watch TV or listen to the radio, I use You tube and other online channels to learn about and listen to new music.

Totally agree with your point about artists needing to gain the loyalty and respect of their fans so that fans want to support them and not rip them off. Music is pretty expensive at the moment, with so many people taking a cut out of the final product and so little going to the actual artists.

And musicians that make music for the sake or art are awesome. What greater honour is there than to contribute to the collective works of humanity and not want to be financially rewarded for it? I think one would need a certain degree of life security and establishment before they could afford to be so altruitsic through. Artists still have bills to pay.



Ive been thinking more about all this and I have some ideas...

Possible ways that artists could be more creative in the way that they sell their music

* personalise their cds, records, usb or memory stick for the fans by autographing or inscribing a personalised message on them
* having limited editions - releasing only a lmited number of cds so that each one becomes more valuable and attractive to purchase.
* including awesome cover art and fan created cover art on albums- many artists already do this
* find ways to make music more interactive for fans, like shareware. Get fans involved in the creation process
* sell merchandise and give away the music away for free. The merchandise needs to be good and useful though. I hate all this 'pink washing' crap, its all just landfill!
* make money through gigs and concerts rather than selling albums
* customise the album experience for the fan- let them jump on your website and create the own album with the songs of their choice in the order of their choice and the cover art of their choice
* have open source music so that fans can buy it and then hack it, change it and use it to their hearts content

thats all I can think of for now about this

In regards to distributing music and copyright:
*only charge individuals and businesses for the use of copyright music on their websites if they are profiting from it. Otherwise its just free advertising for the music and everone should be happy that its getting out there.
* Let businesses pay a flat or per rata fee to a government run media authority to use as much copyright music as they desire

thats all I have for now

 

[bionic]

Here's the solution: Destroy the internet.

 

[Phebe]

Clearly SOPA is terrifying, the future of the internet is at risk, and there is the ever present danger to internet integrity and security by acts of fascism and terrorism. These are some of the greatest threats that our generation has faced and they could fundemantaly stunt our evolution into a better humanity for all.

So what are we going to do?

Well...I do think SOPA as its currently written will die a horrible death in Congress due to the uproar of the people. But even if SOPA and PIPA got passed, I could see a number of lawyers tying the bill up in Supreme Court, declaring it unconstitutional.

I think artists have the right to earn more money, though; a lot of the big music and movie studio heads think they'll get more if they control more, but that's silly, because people will rebel against them. All it would take would be a few Occupy "Hollywood" movements. It can cost tens of thousands of dollars per day to disrupt a filming schedule and that's quite easy to do (just walk in on a shot by "accident").

If studios were smart, they'd take the lessons companies are already employing, and using them for their own. Release a few pre-downloadable songs for free, or very cheaply, so folks get interested in the album. Give more pay to your musicians, so they can promote their albums to their fans and get bigger returns for the work they do. Make better films and hire better writers and filmmakers, so you don't keep producing trash that people won't see. Stop being greedy, etc. etc.

Hollywood and the music industry will also have to realize that people don't have a lot of money, so they'll find ways around things. Maybe they should actually pay movie theaters to show their movies, instead of the other way around. Change movie stars' contracts - don't pay them $25 million to do one movie; pay them $10 million with options of continuing profits from DVD sales, movie rentals, movies on TV/cable, etc.

Can businesses pay a proportionate and fair fee to a media authority for use of copyrighted materials?

Should private citizens and non for profit businesses be exempt from piracy/copyright laws?

"Fair Use" comes into play here. I think revising the internet laws could tamper with the Fair Use Act, which allows people to use small sections of songs or quotes or clips as examples. Could you imagine what would happen if we couldn't, or if we had to pay every time to do this? It would affect newspapers, writers (critics), and anyone in school writing a paper on the industry. It would end up hurting the very people propagating this bill - they'd end up losing money, because people couldn't afford to pay them. I'd boycott them, anyway.

How can internet servers be more secure from acts of fascism and terrorism?

Use hackers. Seriously - they know more about the systems and how the systems fail than anyone building it. Use hackers to test the final product, and employ them to test for holes. Get their advice on other things as well. They've done it before, and they'll continue to do it - as long as they have some immunity.

Is it possible to totally decentralise internet servers?

I doubt it.

It is possible to operate internet servers under International law in secure protected locations in international waters?

Only...if you can get everyone around the globe to agree. Which is a bit improbable. China has problems with playing fair when it comes to the Internet, so I don't think this is possible right now.

Is open source a viable alternative to copyright and patenting?

As Lexst said, open source and shareware works - it really depends on what's being offered, and how they can make money. Software companies used to share all the time to make better products - it was the heyday of the 90s between Apple and Microsoft. The companies have to stop being lone wolves. They have to understand that when they share, everyone wins. But keeping things secret will open the door to destructive methods and corporate espionage.

 

[Quiet]

Thanks for your thoughful response Phebe.
I agree with most of what you have said. I love your ideas about the movie industry paying cinemas to show films and actors getting paid pro rata for their success.


Decentralisation of servers does seem unlikely but I worry about it a lot. Servers seem so vulnerable at the moment, both to cyber and physical threats. Im sure that threats to internet security and cyber warfare will become increasing common and its something that needs to be adressed asap. Hackers definately should be our friends in this cause.

 

[Quiet]

Here's the solution: Destroy the internet.

And kill internet porn for all future generations? Thats cruel.

Got me thinking though, if anyone has a vested interest in keeping the internet free and secure, its the adult industry. They should be championing this cause.

 

[Deathjam]

the internet is already pretty decentralised ( http://www.root-servers.org/ ) there can only be 13 root nameservers but many of them use anycast to distribute requests to bigger clusters of servers, even if they all go down you and still access sites via there ip, if known.

the real problem is from laws ie sopa/pipa/etc especially in America as icann is a us organisation and so has to abide by us law

 

[Quiet]

the internet is already pretty decentralised ( http://www.root-servers.org/ ) there can only be 13 root nameservers but many of them use anycast to distribute requests to bigger clusters of servers, even if they all go down you and still access sites via there ip, if known.

the real problem is from laws ie sopa/pipa/etc especially in America as icann is a us organisation and so has to abide by us law

Thanks for that information. Im trying hard to learn more about how the internet works but Im still pretty ignorant. Good to know that there is already a good degree of decentralisation and safety catches

 

[Apone]

Here's the solution: Destroy the internet.

Good idea.

I really don't think this is terrorism and fascism, because I don't think that the Internet is a basic human right. Seriously, people are getting more worked up about losing their Facebook or making Google lose money on policing their content than REAL ACTUAL GENOCIDE. When was the last time anyone got this upset about the war in Darfur? Where it's officially been declared a humanitarian emergency and people are being raped and murdered on a daily basis??

It's actually something of a sick comment on what we've been reduced to.

If the Internet went down right now, video stores would start making a comeback. Music stores would rise up. Travel agencies would start making money again. Real actual stores would be more popular! There are some stable, long-term careers for you guys! It used to be my dream to have my own independent music store but now I know I will never be able to make that work… if the Internet died, I would have my dream back! Libraries MIGHT become popular again, magazines would start to sell better. You wouldn't have to sort through all kinds of horrible homemade bullshit in order to find new music that you actually like. That's all I can think of right now… there's probably more. We're talking about old jobs coming back-- jobs that don't require a degree in programming or extensive computer knowledge to do… where you can have your own store and your own space and actually have a relationship with your customers.

And seriously, the Internet doesn't cause revolutions-- revolutions were happening waayyyyyyyy before Facebook or whatever, it's just that Facebook wasn't there to take the credit. I guess there's Wikileaks, but I'm pretty sure that 90% of people AREN'T reading those epic-ass documents… and it's not like the documents themselves are as interesting to the public as the fact that Julian Assange is being 'unjustly imprisoned' because he's a 'threat'.

Most of the Internet is paranoia, piracy and porn, the rest is frivolous tripe and I suppose sites like these that allow people to 'bond' without really even acknowledging what other people are saying.

If Google is blacked out, then someone else will fill the niche. It's not going to be the end of 'freedom' or whatever… almost everyone will be fine. Just like you'll be fine, and possibly even better off, if you disconnect your internet right now and start living your life the way it's supposed to be lived instead of wasting it on fear and terror and 'righteous struggles against oppression' when chances are you've grown up with absolutely the best things that money can buy and have no idea what life is like in places where the people actually are oppressed.

I've actually traveled to the third world and nobody-- NOBODY whines as much as Americans do! Or if they do, it's about things like not being able to buy food, or not having enough money to afford ridiculously expensive schools so that your kids can get a 7th grade education. And if they do manage to afford a luxury like, oh, say, a single bottle of beer… then they share it with everyone! In the evenings they don't sit in front of a computer screen, they hang out and socialize with real actual people!

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be concerned about their freedoms or whatever but seriously, if THIS is your top priority you should really ask yourself why.

And in conclusion: GO SOPA!

 

[Flavus Aquila]

If you don't agree with a particular system, utilise a different one.



I think you will find that the commercial/protected system is far superior.

 

[Next]

Thanks for that information. Im trying hard to learn more about how the internet works but Im still pretty ignorant. Good to know that there is already a good degree of decentralisation and safety catches

Its just a matter of time, and effort, and you'd be set-up, and ready to go.

 

[muir]

The internet has increased awareness around the world

It gives a greater voice to groups in the third world for example the Zapatistas (EZLN) or the World Social Forum

It isn't just about whinging westerners or porn and conspiracy it is about the sharing of information and perspectives

It is about people getting to know more about what is happening in the world and why.....and I've been to many third world countries and am in fact in one right now...the internet has helped in recent revolutions, in the third world, there's no doubt about that. It is radically altering the way people view the world and that is why power elites are threatened by it.

In conclusion: FUCK SOPA and the thieving corporations behind it

Burn Hollywood burn

 

[Quiet]

Good idea.

I really don't think this is terrorism and fascism, because I don't think that the Internet is a basic human right. Seriously, people are getting more worked up about losing their Facebook or making Google lose money on policing their content than REAL ACTUAL GENOCIDE. When was the last time anyone got this upset about the war in Darfur? Where it's officially been declared a humanitarian emergency and people are being raped and murdered on a daily basis??

It's actually something of a sick comment on what we've been reduced to.

If the Internet went down right now, video stores would start making a comeback. Music stores would rise up. Travel agencies would start making money again. Real actual stores would be more popular! There are some stable, long-term careers for you guys! It used to be my dream to have my own independent music store but now I know I will never be able to make that work

 

[Apone]

I was in kind of a bad mood when I wrote that and it was all pretty over-the-top, but it's still pretty hard for me to regard the internet as being the route to utopian society that you seem to think it is. To be honest, I'd be more likely to believe that it makes people more desensitized than anything. Oh yeah, also more distracted, paranoid, narcissistic, and entitled-- really, really entitled.

It's obviously really important to people, but it's not like people never used to communicate about important issues, or share and reinforce each other's perspectives, or plan revolts, or whatever. I can say for sure that people never used to consume as much porn, or download as much music, or be as distracted...

If the Internet really is somehow going to close the gap between rich and poor, then I think that's great

 

[GracieRuth]

Really, the world was better off without the internet. It has proliferated misinformation and urban legends. It lets perverts, whackos, criminals, and paranoid conspiracists a way to meet and feel like they are "obviously normal after all." It finances the porn industry. It teaches kids poor spelling like "R U St8?" The negative effects of the web OUTWEIGH the benefits.

 

[muir]

The usefulness of the internet is dependant on how it is used

The process of wealth trickling upwards has been occuring for a long time now and accelerated since deregulation in the 1970's before the public were using the internet. Revolutions happened before the internet but not at the speed they do now. Also because ideas can spreed so fast they are like brush fires cropping up everywhere and joining into larger fires at such a rate that the power elites can't put them out.

The internet has let the cat out of the bag regarding so many issues. It is letting ideas pass around the globe in a flash. It's become a game changer.

Who the 'dark forces' are is entirely dependant on your interpretation. What i would call dark forces are certain power elites who are seeking to create a centrally controlled economy with themselves at the head of it. I would call them dark forces because i believe in democracy.

A further sinister element to their activites is the occult element. The use of symbols and the understanding of human psychology that this elite bring to bare in order to achieve their objectives and the malicious intent behind it could warrant an accusation of 'dark forces'.

However any elite looking to monopolise power will inevitably seek to control the internet or use it for its own ends. We have seen attempts recently at controlling the internet in the shape of SOPA and PIPA, which i predicted they would do on this forum (because as the country drifts closer to revolution the elites will have to tighten up controls of the public eg patriot Act and the NDAA) and there is plenty of missinformation put out on the internet so people still need to question what they are hearing, research it and exercise discernment

The internet remains, for now at least a powerful tool for seeking answers and sharing ideas and for that reason it is of great value to the public who should fight to protect their access to it.

Wealth disparity is one imbalance currently destabilising our society, information asymmetry is another threat to the balance of power between the people and their 'leaders'

 

[Deathjam]

It teaches kids poor spelling like "R U St8?"

that's more to do with text messages rather than the internet