Bill Cosby
- Thread starter cvp12gh5
- Start date
[MENTION=11771]Dave Fallon[/MENTION]
There's a big difference between "I need some proof because you could be lying" and "I think you are lying".
I mean why do you have to present identification at the bank or something? Is it because they're accusing you of lying about your identity? No, it's because people CAN lie about their identity and they need assurance. If you don't have your ID, they don't serve you, and they shouldn't. If you go in and try to get money without identifying yourself - without proof - they're going to say we can't just trust you because you could be anyone. That is NOT an accusation, that's the reason why things work the way they do.
There's a big difference between "I need some proof because you could be lying" and "I think you are lying".
I mean why do you have to present identification at the bank or something? Is it because they're accusing you of lying about your identity? No, it's because people CAN lie about their identity and they need assurance. If you don't have your ID, they don't serve you, and they shouldn't. If you go in and try to get money without identifying yourself - without proof - they're going to say we can't just trust you because you could be anyone. That is NOT an accusation, that's the reason why things work the way they do.
Oh, OK. I hadn't looked at it that way. True, there's a lot we don't know because he's being quiet about this. And another thing I hadn't considered is that he may not have committed crimes but the truth is still embarrassing for him to reveal... Sort of the Bill Clinton effect: no matter what he says, he loses.
I get that point. If he hasn't spoken in his defense, he does not need to. But if the accusers have a good case, he does more harm by holding, just as in the Clinton case.
OK, fair enough. I concede: we only have the accusers accounts so far, so maybe this thread all along was about them.
Yes, I agree. Though you have to admit there is a thin line between due process and prejudice. To take the bank analogy, you may not mind showing your ID, but what if they then said you need your birth certificate, Social Security card, two friends to vouch for your identity, and blood and urine samples, then wait two weeks for them to verify that. You have to agree that a driver's license can be forged, just as someone can lie.
But then, I may be biased in the other direction. I don't think everyone here has gone to the "blood and urine" extreme, so maybe I should be a little less concerned about the scrutiny. I just think it is bad that a legitimate victim has to face this scrutiny, but when the punishment is significant, then so to should be the certainty that punishment is deserved.
I think everyone would agree @Dave Fallon that a legitimate victim should not have to go through that public criticism or interrogation or have to answer to everyone, for something someone did to them. I think the real problem is that the media does a poor job of making sure that when stories are reported, they are checked out or else every story reported is seen as a fact. There's a principle in news reporting which says we're likely to believe the first thing we hear, even if it isn't the truth. So, in a world where media reports everything immediately with fact checking coming later without any real investigation or analysis, it's hard to know what's the truth.
Last edited:
Well
1. It's bad to not be believed but worse to be falsely accused. Yes we do bias to one side because if we don't that leaves things up in the air too much to be of any use. Yes, it is arbitrary but it is also pragmatic.
2. If we can't bring evidence and take some kind of legal action, what is the point? If it is to ruin someone's reputation then that is wrong and makes a mockery of justice. Why bother with justice at all? Why have courts when we could just go straight to slander anyway? Doing this kind of thing should actually be wrong, and in some cases even skirts very close to breaking the law.
Thats kind of the point though. If there isnt enough or any evidence for legal action and yet it still ruins someones life because all you have to do is make accusations that make it into the media so that people can judge you there...wtf? Its all bs.
For those of you who somehow have made the decision that Cosby is now a bad person how exactly did you come to that conclusion? Just because 17 women say he is?
I just dont get this whole thing.
There is a group of high ranking military and government officials that say we are being visited by alien beings. They have vastly more proof of it than any of these women do concerning their claim of Cosby. So given that people so easily believe what they are told I guess that means they are telling the truth.
I love this guy on ancient aliens
Those officials have everything to lose when they come forward with those accounts, so yes, I believe they are telling the truth. Plus, the thought of there being life somewhere other than our planet isn't that far-fetched. If they say they had an encounter, then they did. Why lie?
These women also have a lot to lose by coming forward. You can't build a career on false rape allegations. This is fact.
If he ends up being innocent, I will be the first to say I was wrong. But I don't feel that this will happen. We will wait and see.
I love this guy on ancient aliens
View attachment 22675
Those officials have everything to lose when they come forward with those accounts, so yes, I believe they are telling the truth. Plus, the thought of there being life somewhere other than our planet isn't that far-fetched. If they say they had an encounter, then they did. Why lie?
These women also have a lot to lose by coming forward. You can't build a career on false rape allegations. This is fact.
If he ends up being innocent, I will be the first to say I was wrong. But I don't feel that this will happen. We will wait and see.
Doesn't look like they're losing much. Looks like they are gaining a lot of sympathy to me.
They're also receiving a lot of criticism. And if the allegations turn out to be false, they will be ruined. Nothing positive will come their way if they are lying.
Yes but if you go so far as to believe them because they're taking this risk then it becomes circular. If we believe them now it isn't so simple as taking it back later because the damage will already be done.
I'm not saying it's impossible that they are lying, I'm just saying that it is highly unlikely. As I said, I will be the first to say I was wrong if the allegations turn out to be false. But I can't imagine that all of these women are out to ruin Cosby. What would be the reasoning behind it?
Notoriety, money, book deals, maybe even plain revenge. Not to mention that some times people are just plain crazy and illogical.
So all 20 plus women are crazy and coming up with the same story of being drugged and raped? Maybe, but I doubt it. We'll see. I can't wait to see him be interviewed (if that ever happens).
Not necessarily but I don't see a reason to form an opinion either way.
If I were somehow connected with any of these people it might become important but I have the luxury of detachment. I don't have to decide anything, and even if I do it accomplishes nothing. Believing it or not believing it doesn't do anything for them, for me, or for anybody.
Exactly.
Its not proof one way or another of lying or not but the idea theres nothing to gain as being the sole basis why not to do it is not a good foundation.
In this instance I want to believe they are telling the truth but I am certainly still holding off judgement because with the information I have, theres still simply no way to tell for sure.
Kathy Lee Gifford says that Cosby tried to kiss her. If true we now know that Cosby does appear to have some unknown mental health issues.