Authentic Projection

[MegaHen]

Projection is often judging or hating others for something you yourself have as a quality, right? During shadow work it’s important to look at your own projections..

INFJs and authenticity, is that a projection?

We only want authentic people in our lives, and may judge others who feel phony or inauthentic

But, and forgive me if I am wrong- We also people please, and wear masks to attune to others personalities, it can be so hard for us to be authentic versions of ourselves in the outside world... yet I personally have judged others for the very same thing

So maybe, it’s important not to judge others on how authentic they are and instead work on our own struggles with this.. maybe forgive ourselves and them for struggling to show themselves wholly and safely to the outside world

many of you have probably thought of this already and I’m late to the game lol, but interesting thought none the less. Feel free to disagree with me, would love to hear your opinions!

 

[dragulagu]

We only want authentic people in our lives, and may judge others who feel phony or inauthentic

That one is always interesting towards discussion.

 

[slant]

Projection is often judging or hating others for something you yourself have as a quality, right? During shadow work it’s important to look at your own projections..

INFJs and authenticity, is that a projection?

We only want authentic people in our lives, and may judge others who feel phony or inauthentic

But, and forgive me if I am wrong- We also people please, and wear masks to attune to others personalities, it can be so hard for us to be authentic versions of ourselves in the outside world... yet I personally have judged others for the very same thing

So maybe, it’s important not to judge others on how authentic they are and instead work on our own struggles with this.. maybe forgive ourselves and them for struggling to show themselves wholly and safely to the outside world

many of you have probably thought of this already and I’m late to the game lol, but interesting thought none the less. Feel free to disagree with me, would love to hear your opinions!

I feel like I have a lot of complex thoughts about this but I think I'm struggling to format them because I don't fully understand what you're trying to convey here.

Are you saying that you are holding people to standards of authenticity that may be unfair based on your own personal preferences for authenticity as an infj?

Or can you expand or clarify the OP?

 

[MegaHen]

I feel like I have a lot of complex thoughts about this but I think I'm struggling to format them because I don't fully understand what you're trying to convey here.

Are you saying that you are holding people to standards of authenticity that may be unfair based on your own personal preferences for authenticity as an infj?

Or can you expand or clarify the OP?

Lol okay one sec... I believe, so.
I don’t want to assume all INFJs think just like me but I know we tend to value authenticity. So I was questioning why that is, and in my personal experience I’ve been a people pleaser (I’ve heard many of us are) which makes it incredibly hard to be authentic in front of others. So, are INFJs projecting in a way, there dislike for when others are inauthentic? Again, I’m sure not all INFJs are the exact same just my own experience

Ive found many of my judgments on others are just things I don’t like about myself which is projection, I wonder if it’s the same...

Or may just want to be authentic with others because bonds are formed by trust, And we are trustworthy but worry others arnt possibly. Or is it that we are projecting our dislike that we struggle to be ourselves at times? I’m not sure Lol I’m hurting my own brain

Does that help at all? I can expand more lol the more I write the fuzzier it gets

 

[slant]

Lol okay one sec... I believe, so.
I don’t want to assume all INFJs think just like me but I know we tend to value authenticity. So I was questioning why that is, and in my personal experience I’ve been a people pleaser (I’ve heard many of us are) which makes it incredibly hard to be authentic in front of others. So, are INFJs projecting in a way, there dislike for when others are inauthentic? Again, I’m sure not all INFJs are the exact same just my own experience

Ive found many of my judgments on others are just things I don’t like about myself which is projection, I wonder if it’s the same...

Or may just want to be authentic with others because bonds are formed by trust, And we are trustworthy but worry others arnt possibly. Or is it that we are projecting our dislike that we struggle to be ourselves at times? I’m not sure Lol I’m hurting my own brain

Does that help at all? I can expand more lol the more I write the fuzzier it gets

Hmm.

Where do you think your people pleaser behavior comes from/ what makes it difficult for you to be authentic with others?

What do you view as a sign of inauthenticity in others, and why do you dislike it?

 

[Daustus]

People pleasing is a negative aspect of external feeling. Its often used to problem solve the emotional issues or real world problems of other people.

Authenticity matters to me only to my personal social circle. I want people to be able to be themselves and true to themselves. I can be judgmental if I think someone is lying to themselves. I've come to accept I really want people in my life that can be what they are and healthy. If someone cannot maintain most aspect of mental, emotion and physical health I don't keep the friendship up. I try not to shove someone in a premade assumption box that I've made for them, but again I'm human. Not always successful.

I'm sure I don't come off as authentic to everyone because I don't share the whole me to everyone. I try to hold back less these days. I know how to read an audience and present what they want to see but also how to give them what they ask or need. Is that authentic?

I think I focus on wanting authentic but also people with good intentions. People focused on making things better.

 

[MegaHen]

Hmm.

Where do you think your people pleaser behavior comes from/ what makes it difficult for you to be authentic with others?

What do you view as a sign of inauthenticity in others, and why do you dislike it?

Possibly fear of judgment.. it’s become so natural now that I’m not entirely sure anymore to be honest, but I don’t want to upset anyone as well

As for inauthenticity in others... is also hard to describe. When I’m talking to someone and what they are saying isn’t matching their body language.Or when what their saying somehow I know isn’t 100% truthful which sounds pretty silly when I type it out lol
I dislike it because I don’t feel like I can trust the person

 

[slant]

Possibly fear of judgment.. it’s become so natural now that I’m not entirely sure anymore to be honest, but I don’t want to upset anyone as well

As for inauthenticity in others... is also hard to describe. When I’m talking to someone and what they are saying isn’t matching their body language.Or when what their saying somehow I know isn’t 100% truthful which sounds pretty silly when I type it out lol

So maybe your theory holds true.

If you are afraid of judgement, and you see people being inauthentic, perhaps the reason is also because they are afraid of judgement.

I think it would be safe to say that all human beings are afraid of rejection. We want to belong and be included. It is a primal survival instinct.

 

[MegaHen]

So maybe your theory holds true.

If you are afraid of judgement, and you see people being inauthentic, perhaps the reason is also because they are afraid of judgement.

I think it would be safe to say that all human beings are afraid of rejection. We want to belong and be included. It is a primal survival instinct.

Yes, and I think that idea helps me understand others better... and come from a place of understanding and not judgment. Maybe we’re not as different as we feel at times

Agreed we have a strong desire and need for it... reading the book of joy at the moment and it talks about how we as humans need connection and compassion for others to ease our own suffering and feel genuine joy.. without having to chase it. I do believe that, I think that’s where my concern for authentic judgment came in because it didn’t feel like I was being accepting or loving, just separating myself further.. I think by spreading love and not judgment however impossible seeming at times can heal us more than accepting I don’t really like certain kinds of people and slamming the door on them

Or maybe it’s just another way to get hurt, we shall see lol

 

[slant]

Yes, and I think that idea helps me understand others better... and come from a place of understanding and not judgment. Maybe we’re not as different as we feel at times

Agreed we have a strong desire and need for it... reading the book of joy at the moment and it talks about how we as humans need connection and compassion for others to ease our own suffering and feel genuine joy.. without having to chase it. I do believe that, I think that’s where my concern for authentic judgment came in because it didn’t feel like I was being accepting or loving, just separating myself further.. I think by spreading love and not judgment however impossible seeming at times can heal us more than accepting I don’t really like certain kinds of people and slamming the door on them

Or maybe it’s just another way to get hurt, we shall see lol

I'm going through a lot of the same things you are going through right now after having an event which sort of broke down my identity and forced me to confront behaviour that I have as a result of subconscious beliefs and fears. A lot of that is on my blog you might find it interesting *shameless plug*

I would recommend the book heartwounds it's helping me with this stuff right now. The first step is bringing these things to our conscious awareness.

Or, hell, maybe I'm projecting

 

[Daustus]

I think INFJs typically know other people better than others will know us. Typically, but not always should be stressed. I have a deep desire to connect with others and be known and accepted. I think that's a NF pattern but it's also universal human thing.

 

[MegaHen]

I'm going through a lot of the same things you are going through right now after having an event which sort of broke down my identity and forced me to confront behaviour that I have as a result of subconscious beliefs and fears. A lot of that is on my blog you might find it interesting *shameless plug*

I would recommend the book heartwounds it's helping me with this stuff right now. The first step is bringing these things to our conscious awareness.

Or, hell, maybe I'm projecting

I’m sorry for what your going through, and yes I’ve experienced something likely similar..
Interesting how suffering can propel us into more self growth and love for ourselves and others. Can transform someone, and help you see both your light and dark
Lol I’d love to go take a look xD
Thankyou for the book recommendation^_^ therapist recommended Pima Chodrons pocket book as well tho the entire name escapes me.. I think it would likely be helpful for both of us

Lmao, some things we’ll never know. It is good to meet you tho Slant ^_^ I don’t know your situation, but I hope things get better for you, I have a feeling they will

 

[MegaHen]

I think INFJs typically know other people better than others will know us. Typically, but not always should be stressed. I have a deep desire to connect with others and be known and accepted. I think that's a NF pattern but it's also universal human thing.

Good point Daustus, and we are tricky sometimes for even ourselves to get to know. it means so much when someone knows you to the core and not just what your showing them, and then accepts that person. I think every human does need that. Maybe with age and self reflection this can get easier for the INFJ

 

[dragulagu]

Point on authenticity; no one is completely authentic in any interaction with you (the general "you").
That really depends on your relation with the person.

You can talk about the weather or something general with a random person and you'll get a honest reaction most of the time.
But if you go through a personal subject or a subject which requires nuance, people will very easily add some (white) lies in their words, even
close relations and that's not meant as something negative.

How INFJ's see authenticity, to me, is somewhat naive, with the whole "authenticity is key" thing.
If you can be your authentic self and be open with a difficult or personal topic within your close circle, that should be enough in regards to authenticity.
Keeping the lie count as low as possible off-course.

This TED talk covers the subject:
https://www.ted.com/talks/pamela_meyer_how_to_spot_a_liar

 

[MegaHen]

Point on authenticity; no one is completely authentic in any interaction with you (the general "you").
That really depends on your relation with the person.

You can talk about the weather or something general with a random person and you'll get a honest reaction most of the time.
But if you go through a personal subject or a subject which requires nuance, people will very easily add some (white) lies in their words, even
close relations and that's not meant as something negative.

How INFJ's see authenticity, to me, is somewhat naive, with the whole "authenticity is key" thing.
If you can be your authentic self and be open with a difficult or personal topic within your close circle, that should be enough in regards to authenticity.
Keeping the lie count as low as possible off-course.

This TED talk covers the subject:
https://www.ted.com/talks/pamela_meyer_how_to_spot_a_liar

Hmmm.. true. I think expecting others to be 100% truthful is a bit extreme, but when it is a regular habit that you don’t feel like you can trust someone, as you said the lie count, I begin to not feel safe or secure with an individual. But yeah that'd be mostly in an inner circle..

In my experience when I ignored that feeling in my younger years it’s just led to said person doing something painful, because there actions weren’t matching their words

Or when someone’s being really nice and smiling to your face, but somethings feels noticeably off and later you overhear them talking terribly about others

If someone’s having white lies because I asked something personal and they don’t want to share all of that with me, or in conversation that doesn’t really have any significance I understand that completely

I don’t know lol, we can’t avoid suffering and I’m learning that.. and I’d like to forgive others because no ones perfect, we all have reasons for being dishonest sometimes, no human on the earth is 100% authentic

Will check out the ted talk, thanks for the link!

 

[MegaHen]

Maybe "people pleasing" isn't quite it for me; I find I try to blend in, especially in new surroundings, as much as I can. Being too concerned about authenticity, imo, can be unfruitful. My tentative conclusion for being an INFJ is to forget "authenticity" and aim for effectiveness in your self-expression and decisions. It doesn't mean you are being fake. It just means you be your best self to share what you must share and do what you must do most appropriately within a given context and time.

Maybe what I’m calling people pleasing is just me blending in too... but I haven't liked it, because I can’t relax and be myself
I suppose so, me worrying about the authenticity is probably making me able to be less “authentic” or myself.. so would be unfruitful yeah

What does it look like to you to be effective in your self expression and decisions? I like that..

 

[MegaHen]

Here's an example.

Um... authentically, I hate going to work a lot(especially my old job). I have had a couple of situations where I didn't gaf care and just decided, I'm just going to make it clear how I really feel...see? Authenticity. I'd sit there on the job telling everyone exactly how I felt about them, about the job, about my life, and how (at the time) I really just wanted to put a bullet through my head. I never get sympathy from people (not even from my parents growing up). I "authentically" made things worse for me and everyone else. I just walked out of the job flipping off my boss out the door. Now, that's authentic. But not very effective or appropriate. It hurts others, and I sure as heck wasn't enjoying it. But I've also gone through the processes of filing official complaints if I didn't like something, or calmly addressing concerns, and if I wanted out, I put in an appropriate 2 week notice. See? Both approaches are saying the same thing, leading to similar outcomes, but one causes turmoil and is degrading, while other causes harmony and is up building. That's what I mean by effectiveness.

Ahh, yeah makes sense.. so maybe don’t have to be so damn bluntly honest either lol... thanks for your input ^_^

 

[Quiet]

So maybe, it’s important not to judge others on how authentic they are and instead work on our own struggles with this.. maybe forgive ourselves and them for struggling to show themselves wholly and safely to the outside world

This is a great topic and I think you've summed it pretty well above.
But always trust your intuition and be discerning. Really really really. Listen to that gut feeling over your thoughts, rationalisations and justifications.
Some people are really good liars and I thought I was good at reading people but I learnt the hard way that I wasn't. My trauma and conditioning, as well as certain personality traits and values made me very gullible and an easy target.
Nice does not equal good. A lot of bad people are nice. And bad people can also do good things sometimes. Its all about the overall intent. Not everyone thinks like you and not everyone deserves your trust. Trust should be earned. I used to think that there were no strangers, just friends i haven't met yet. And I gave everyone the benefit of the doubt. Made endless excuses and justifications. Forgave everything. Preached about love. I was constantly doing shadow work and asking myself why i attracted such negative experiences and people. I was literally a doormat and I didn't even know. I've learnt that the hard way that self love, self compassion and self kindness needs to come first.
I've actually now spent hours learning about this through reading and videos about how to spot lies and narcissistic/sociopathic behaviour.


People pleasing is complex.
I'm a people pleaser and also generally and horribly...a very compliant person. I greatly respect and generally follow rules, systems and laws.
I feel- your space- your rules. My space- my rules. Shared space- rules matter.
Its important for me to be polite and respectful, and i like positive interactions.
I like being agreeable, and I am wherever possible. I'm also open minded and can see and understand others' points of view and see where they're coming from. I like harmony and i like people and i like having a good time.

But sometimes i feel like shit or im lost in my world or just want to be alone and and I either retreat or just keep my head down and maintain politeness but am way too self absorbed to even really process anyone else's experience. I still care in a way...but im disconnected and consumed by my own experience.

When i repress these feelings...I am being inauthentic to myself and im just going through the motions because i feel i have to. Sometimes there is no choice

And then sometimes i just cant keep my mouth shut if something matters and be very judgemental and self righteous. I'm fanatical about my own ethics and values. I also love arguing in the sense of debate. When i was younger i was very much a card carrying slogan wearing political fanatic....always going to meetings, going door to door to spread the propaganda, politics in the pub, organising and going to protests, getting really worked up and sometimes acting like a total disrespectful porkchop. I did this because I really really really cared.
I have also broken many laws and rules but never for the sake of it. Sometimes its just has to be that way but not at the expense of others. I have never nor will ever be a rebel without a cause. And in my heart and mind, I am actually an anarchist true and true.

All this can look warm, nice, good, pleasant, quiet, cold, aloof, distant, malcontent, rude, fanatical, psyco, judgemental, rebellious and nutcase.

And they're all true. Its all really confusing and messy and complex and makes no sense

 

[MegaHen]

This is a great topic and I think you've summed it pretty well above.
But always trust your intuition and be discerning. Really really really. Listen to that gut feeling over your thoughts, rationalisations and justifications.
Some people are really good liars and I thought I was good at reading people but I learnt the hard way that I wasn't. My trauma and conditioning, as well as certain personality traits and values made me very gullible and an easy target.
Nice does not equal good. A lot of bad people are nice. And bad people can also do good things sometimes. Its all about the overall intent. Not everyone thinks like you and not everyone deserves your trust. Trust should be earned. I used to think that there were no strangers, just friends i haven't met yet. And I gave everyone the benefit of the doubt. Made endless excuses and justifications. Forgave everything. Preached about love. I was constantly doing shadow work and asking myself why i attracted such negative experiences and people. I was literally a doormat and I didn't even know. I've learnt that the hard way that self love, self compassion and self kindness needs to come first.
I've actually now spent hours learning about this through reading and videos about how to spot lies and narcissistic/sociopathic behaviour.


People pleasing is complex.
I'm a people pleaser and also generally and horribly...a very compliant person. I greatly respect and generally follow rules, systems and laws.
I feel- your space- your rules. My space- my rules. Shared space- rules matter.
Its important for me to be polite and respectful, and i like positive interactions.
I like being agreeable, and I am wherever possible. I'm also open minded and can see and understand others' points of view and see where they're coming from. I like harmony and i like people and i like having a good time.

But sometimes i feel like shit or im lost in my world or just want to be alone and and I either retreat or just keep my head down and maintain politeness but am way too self absorbed to even really process anyone else's experience. I still care in a way...but im disconnected and consumed by my own experience.

When i repress these feelings...I am being inauthentic to myself and im just going through the motions because i feel i have to. Sometimes there is no choice

And then sometimes i just cant keep my mouth shut if something matters and be very judgemental and self righteous. I'm fanatical about my own ethics and values. I also love arguing in the sense of debate. When i was younger i was very much a card carrying slogan wearing political fanatic....always going to meetings, going door to door to spread the propaganda, politics in the pub, organising and going to protests, getting really worked up and sometimes acting like a total disrespectful porkchop. I did this because I really really really cared.
I have also broken many laws and rules but never for the sake of it. Sometimes its just has to be that way but not at the expense of others. I have never nor will ever be a rebel without a cause. And in my heart and mind, I am actually an anarchist true and true.

All this can look warm, nice, good, pleasant, quiet, cold, aloof, distant, malcontent, rude, fanatical, psyco, judgemental, rebellious and nutcase.

And they're all true. Its all really confusing and messy and complex and makes no sense

I don’t think I’ve ever related to someone as much as this lol, you sound so much like me it’s insane!! This is great advice Thankyou ^_^

 

[Quiet]

@MegaHen

Thank you, that is really kind.
I resonate with you and your thoughts also.

It's a true pleasure to connect with you and I look forward to getting to know you

I hoped to God you are not as messed up as me lol....and whatever level of mad you are....welcome