Authentic Projection | Page 3 | INFJ Forum

Authentic Projection

Discussion in 'Psychology and MBTI' started by MegaHen, Nov 6, 2020.

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  1. Daustus

    Daustus Technomancer by Day

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    I think there is some value in idea that spending enough time with a subject makes you an expert. I commonly think of the common quoted 10,000 hours to master a craft.

    What's currently making you have to take a leap of faith in the unknown and unqualified Pin?
     
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  2. Zola

    Zola Regular Poster

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    Okay, I see authenticity as a Fi characteristic, not Fe. It is based on being to be true to one's own values, creating inner harmony through congruence with self-identity.

    Fe is based on creating emotional harmony with others and among others. As such, our own identities and values are not the central question.

    So, I say, give yourself a break. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. As long as you don't go against your values, it's okay to meet people's needs -- which are often immature or irrational. For example, if someone tells a joke that isn't funny, you can laugh at their attempt, not at their joke. However, if the joke is unethical, you certainly shouldn't pretend it's funny.

    In the foreground, your Fe is running, telling you that the person wants your admiration. In the background, your Ti is running, telling you that it makes sense to reward a friend for trying to make you laugh, but it is also saying, "Seek the truth. This is not a funny joke." So you rationalize, internally, how to answer.

    "Hey, now, that's a different perspective!" "I never thought of that!" Or my favorite: "Who, but you, could get away with saying something like that?" Make them own what they said. Don't get baited into passing judgment. Keep a collection of comments like this in your repertoire.

    One of the worst things for INFJs to do is lose our levity. When we are too serious, it drags us down and takes everyone else with us. Leave the Fi moralizing to other types. Keep it light. Play. Enjoy. This is what people seek from our type. If they want serious advice, they'll ask.

    People-pleasing doesn't have to be self-destructive. That is part of the heavy, negative, serious trap that INFJs fall into. Know what you're doing. Keep your response in line with achieving your goal. Exit stage left if the mood gets bad. It's neither your responsibility nor your fault if you can't fix it.
     
  3. Ren

    Ren Pin's android / The Maker / ≅ INFP

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    @Pin That being said, we have to depend on trusting others pretty much on a constant basis, when you think about it.

    And a PhD will give you mastery of a very specific subfield, not even a larger field of study. I think that you're fine as long as you're in a position to trust people you have already identified as trustworthy.
     
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  4. Daustus

    Daustus Technomancer by Day

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    I've missed Ren. Welcome back bud
     
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  5. Ren

    Ren Pin's android / The Maker / ≅ INFP

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    Thank you! Missed you too :relaxed:
     
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  6. Pin

    Pin "Magnificent Bastard" / Ren's Counterpart

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    Belief in God, as it's logically possible but not empirically testable. @Ren

    Outside of that, I try to make decisions exclusively within the domain of empirical evidence.
     
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  7. dragulagu

    dragulagu Galactic Explorer

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    Yup, it was a bit of a trick (but serious) question. Before discussing the topic on authenticity (projection), first define what authenticity is.

    [​IMG]

    How does this work in the current society though. Let's say you'd openly give your authentic opinion on a sensitive subject. No matter which side you'd take, there will be a guarantee you'd get voiced down from the opposite side.

    To be authentic means that you are able to stand your ground firm enough that you are willing to take any repercussion and that could imply a lot of sacrifice. It's not that easy.

    Knowing who your true self actually is takes a lot of life experience. And even then, there will always be doubts, even for the greatest leaders.

    So it's a normal thing to see inauthentic characteristics in people, everyone has them.
     
    #47 dragulagu, Nov 10, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
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  8. Daustus

    Daustus Technomancer by Day

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  9. GreenTea

    GreenTea Community Member

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    Being true to myself is important to me. When I was living a very inauthentic life I remember a deep sadness that was hard to live with. One day I realised the sadness was there because I wasn't being true to myself. I left a career and relationship within a week - this was difficult but necessary. That was the very beginning of a journey towards authenticity and years later I'm still learning!

    It doesn't bother me if others are being inauthentic, we are all on our own paths in life and I'm more concerned about my own authenticity.
     
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  10. John K

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    After reading through the thread, my gut feeling is that the word authentic is not a good one to use about people. It assumes that there is an idealised standard against which to compare in order to make a judgement - but we aren't like Ming pottery and there is no idealised or genuine version of myself that I can go to to see if I'm the real thing or a fake. This issue seems to me to be bound up with the way INFJs can easily run into boundary problems - we can lose a sense of our own identity through the social pressures we encounter. One powerful reason for this is that we internalise other people emotionally in order to understand and empathise with them, and this risks confusing and blending their emotions with our own. It isn't a given that we know instinctively how to handle this, and we have to learn how to control it the hard way, by trial and error, very much like a baby learning to walk and talk.

    A problem is that taking control, finding our own inner boundaries and asserting them, feels like it's letting others down, particularly if they have been taking advantage of us. It's as essential to do this as it is to take care of our own skin though - the boundary of our body. Far from scolding ourselves and worrying about our possible inauthenticity, a key to dealing with it is to give ourselves the same love and concern we try and give to others. Once we have gone at least some of the way to sorting it out, we can then make conscious choices of how we present ourselves in each of our social settings - understanding that it is our true nature to do this (which I guess means it's authentic ;)). I see this as analogous to choosing which clothes we wear in different social settings - work, home, party, funeral, etc.

    Are we projecting if we see faults in others? Possibly, but they may genuinely be asses. By definition, a projection is an unconscious behaviour or attitude of your own that you falsely see in others - of course you won't be aware of it so it's not straightforward to uncover the truth. If other people see the same thing as you then it's unlikely to be a projection, whereas if no-one else sees it then it most likely is. Neither is guaranteed though - for example, my dad when he was in the middle stages of dementia could have all sorts of people thinking his stories were true when I knew they were complete delusions, but he was very plausible. My own approach is to try and treat others with care and compassion and to avoid rushing to judgement - I see INxJs far too often charging off with their Fs and Ts when they should be avoiding judgement and giving their intuition plenty of time to work properly. At the same time I try to be street wise and avoid getting into situations where I might get into difficulties. I still don't always succeed :sweatsmile::tearsofjoy:, but I do better than when I was a lot younger.

    @Zola is saying something similar to this, I think. There is a strong undertow of Fi value judgement in the way that the word inauthentic is used about people, but I'm not clear that there is a genuine value that's easy to grasp behind the implied condemnation.
     
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  11. OP
    MegaHen

    MegaHen Regular Poster

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    This gave me a lot of clarity (even taking notes lol) Thankyou for sharing your insight and wisdom:)
     
  12. Maikl Jexocuha

    Maikl Jexocuha Space Cowboy
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    Yes!
     
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  13. philostam

    philostam Permanent Fixture

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    Yeah. Not to mention that when it comes to life, there's no guarantee that PhD in whatever field will give you better advice than 'just' a graduate.

    PhD people are just as prone to biases as everyone else.

    The key in life is to sharpen your judgement, think critically and know how to pick a correct source at any moment.

    It would be terribly inefficient if everyone had a PhD. That's why we delegate tasks and have chains of command in place.

    And even within a certain field there's still a lot of disagreements between PhDs, so that just proves that it's not like obtaining it means that you automatically converge towards a certain 'truth'.

    Fortunately life isn't so rigid and there's still space for people to creatively express their skills without getting a PhD.

    Also if we all had PhDs, who would actually do any work done? It would be like that Monthy Python piece where philosophers play football xD
     
    #53 philostam, Nov 12, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
  14. Ren

    Ren Pin's android / The Maker / ≅ INFP

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    You need to read more Karl Popper!

    This video is good:



    ISTJs my friend
     
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  15. philostam

    philostam Permanent Fixture

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    Thanks! This video came out 3 days ago...I just know you're the type of person who searches for new Karl Popper content on youtube every day. :grinning:

    But yeah, autumn is my favorite season for reading.
     
  16. Ren

    Ren Pin's android / The Maker / ≅ INFP

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    Lmao! Actually it just popped up in my Youtube list. I was planning on just peeking at it but ended up watching the whole thing.

    I didn't know he originally wanted to train/did train as a carpenter.
     
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  17. philostam

    philostam Permanent Fixture

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    He thought he was xSTP until he realized being an xNTP is way cooler. :tongueout:
     
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  18. Ren

    Ren Pin's android / The Maker / ≅ INFP

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    His explanation is that no matter how hard he tried, he never managed to become sensor-y enough!
     
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  19. Maikl Jexocuha

    Maikl Jexocuha Space Cowboy
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    Lol
     
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  20. Maikl Jexocuha

    Maikl Jexocuha Space Cowboy
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    When thinking of authenticity, a good 'ole Latin phrase ressurrects from my memory: "Esse este percipi", which means "To be is to be perceived". You are as authentic as others see you to be and as much as you can accept yourself to be.

    Fe is really important here because you begin to realize that much of reality is a "game" or "dance" of perceptions and language: expressions. Everything that appears and changes is saying something or supports a worldview of collected values. Not everyone sees the same messages or is aware of every expression's meaning. All can agree though on the fact of what can be readily seen or heard or the existence of an object making an expression. All can determine whether an expression is immediately pleasing/harmonious or displeasing/dissonant. You can argue the accuracy or the weight of contextual integrity of an expression. But you can not force or control it's existence or how it is perceived outside of the framework in which it manifests.

    An expression is phenotypic - it is as much a product identifier of it's carrier as it is a signifier of value detached from any particular carrier. It's as fleetingly mundane as a yawn or a sigh, and as timelessly significant as a iconographic relic. Authenticity is just as much in the hands of the individual perceiver as it is in the collective minds of the others perceived.
     
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    #60 Maikl Jexocuha, Nov 19, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
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