Art vs the Artist

[Moranga]

Yea this is sorta where my mind was at. Even a terrible person can be a lightning rod in the creation of a prosperous environment.
And we're all not without sin anyway, which of course you can take at any number of levels and notions of severity. Obviously some things aren't comparable.
But the point is, lots of great things have been born from the nexus of terribleness.
It's not ideal and I don't promote/condone it, but it happens and people do benefit legitimately.

So would that be more like the Artist and the Art being a package deal since one wouldn't exist without the other? I agree with that but her question resonated different with me in that If the artist did things with the intention of causing harm to another would what they created still be likeable and could you look past the wrong doings and still enjoy the art? I believe we all ,and I put myself at the top of the list, make, have made or will make horrible choices that can hurt others, but I think there is a difference between making mistakes that hurt and hurting with the intention of harming. Like its the intention behind the words, actions or thoughts that make me see it one way or the other. Great question @SpecialEdition

 

[Wyote]

So would that be more like the Artist and the Art being a package deal since one wouldn't exist without the other? I agree with that but her question resonated different with me in that If the artist did things with the intention of causing harm to another would what they created still be likeable and could you look past the wrong doings and still enjoy the art? I believe we all ,and I put myself at the top of the list, make, have made or will make horrible choices that can hurt others, but I think there is a difference between making mistakes that hurt and hurting with the intention of harming. Like its the intention behind the words, actions or thoughts that make me see it one way or the other. Great question @SpecialEdition

For sure.
I went on a bit of a tangent there, that's how my brain be lol.

 

[Moranga]

this place feels familiar like Deja Vu

 

[Wyote]

this place feels familiar like Deja Vu

It's a trip man

 

[Moranga]

I hope that didn't sound confrontational, I'm genuinely curious of what you all think and how you sort out your thoughts. I should be careful with the placement of the word "but". lol

 

[Wyote]

I hope that didn't sound confrontational

Not at all, from my perspective

 

[Krypton]

I can separate them. What I appreciate about art is how it moves me, not the person behind it.

That said, I may not want to materially support artists who do shady shit.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Can you and do you separate the two?

It really does depend upon both the artist and the art, I think.

Stephen Fry has spoken a lot about adoring Wagner's music despite Wagner himself holding opinions that are difficult to stomach, but I don't actually think there's any rhyme of reason to it; to what we accept and what we discard.

I've mentally run through a few principles in my mind to try to break this down, but honestly I don't really know if or why or how the artist could corrupt their art. If I could ignore it or not.

I don't think there's any art that I'm attached to - that I know of - with this problem.

 

[Moranga]

Not at all, from my perspective

good deal overthinking

 

[Deleted member 16771]

When is comes to that I remember there being bands I Liked at first then saw them in concert and the experience made me feel like I was witnessing something really evil. An example was Marilyn Manson and the first time I heard them was at the Richardson Coliseum near Dallas when I was 19 or so. It was also my first and only experience with H-Bomb extasy. This stuff apparently had a lot of heroine in it and was also my first experience with that. But I remember my friends who I had flown into town to go to this concert with had been pretty heavy into this stuff. The guy they got it from was a chemist I guess and he was dialing in the dosages and they were willing Guinee pigs. All this I was unaware of until after the fact. Anyway they gave me a "Biscuit" as they called it on the way to the place and I remember my eyes started quivering uncontrollably and my teeth that chattering like I was freezing cold and I could barely walk. I kept falling down and was really struggling to even function at this point. They gave me another One as we made our way to the security check point. I was scared because I was so fucked up I knew they would see me like that and I thought I would get in trouble. They just said hold all you stuff above you head and were only wanding people i search of weapons i guess. So now I'm completely fucked up and trying to follow my friends but I couldn't make sense of anything as the high start ramping up. I was just trying to stay close to my friends and they had like a little box area that was sectioned off with railings made of steel pipe. We were going down these stairs and I kept missing the steps and falling down and they would laugh and help me up and keep moving toward where we were going. The Concert was already going and Marilyn Manson was opening for Nine Inch Nails. They were in the last couple songs and I remember how loud it was and deep the base was and how intense it was as the high kept rising up. The last song they played and they first time I heard it was "Cake and Sodomy" LoL. The sound on the music was what I liked but I have never been the best and understanding lyrics to songs. So I have at times liked music that had a really fucked up message because I didn't know the lyrics or what the song was about. I just liked the way it sounded. Well that was the end of their set but I wanted to hear more from them. Nails was really good. Once the high leveled out the experience was definitely memorable. (God this is the long road to make my point but I think you need to understand how I came to my final conclusion.) Fast forward to getting back to Corpus and buying the tape. Jamming it on the way to go surf and all over. Then my brother and I got an apartment and Mason was coming to play in Corpus. So we went and I looking forward to it. This time though I wasn't on 2 biscuits of H Bomb we were just drunk and stoned. Well this place was an outdoor venues standing room only. So were waiting for them to come on and I'm looking a the stage there were mannequins of children tied to the drumset. There were those things that are like two pieces of would connected to make a X with ropes coming down (For Puppeteers to control the puppet) with children attached to the ropes. So now I'm kinda going "What the Fuck" Me and my brother are kinda looking at each with scrunched faces. Anyway they start playing and the crowd started goin off. While me and J are watching. Then Marilyn comes out wearing a garter belt, stockings, a big Black Top Hat and the yellow eye spectacle over 1 eye. When he comes on stage he is walking on those stilts they use to do drywall mudding on. So they are like 3-4 ft leg extensions. He comes out and he's like 10 ft tall and looked scary and evil as fuck. So were watching this show and he was standing on a speaking at the front of the stage and just started pissing thru his panties all over the place. I was watch the pit and how these kids (10-12 yr range) being lifted up and crowd surfing to the front then getting dropped over the rail and the security would send them to the right on the stage and would go back into the pit do it again. there were 20 - 40 kids up on top floating around the crowd. All I can say it that it felt so evil that we split. When we walked out I remember seeing cars lined up with mothers and grandmothers that were waiting to pick there kids up and realizing that they have no idea what I going on in there. I felt really ashamed after that for being into it and literally threw the the tape away and never really listened to them again. This was before the went super mainstream. Like 92-93'. I have never judged anyone for drugs or struggling with addiction. I feel like I judge people if their Actions, Words or Intentions are meant to harm others. (I'm in no way perfect either) But I have zero tolerance for anyone who harms children. Child look to adult to teach and keep them safe and I feel like that is the ultimate betrayal. JMO. That made me not interested in MM after that. I know i seem chatty right now, but Im not usually. This sounds and may be naïve but this forum feels comfortable to me. I am alone almost every day except for my relationship with my daughter(22 yrs old). I just long to meet people who hopefully get me. I meet people and make friends then over time things happen or they try and label me and the way i feel about them changes and they are no longer friends. If that doesn't happen here its ok because I am used to it, but we'll see i guess.

Sounds like he was competing in the 'Pissing on Fans' Sunday League with R Kelly.

I wonder who won.

 

[Moranga]

Laughing i think MM took 1st. The first time I was struggling and the music sounded good. But the second time i was clearheaded and like What?

 

[QuirkyLemonFlower]

I cannot separate the two at all. For me when an artist creates something, I perceive it as something that is genuinely from their heart and soul. Any that isn't puts me right off. And people that are involved in sexual activities with minors is a complete shut out of my life. Like R Kelly for example, I grew up listening to his music and now I refuse to listen to his music at all.

This is prolly why I rarely listen to music now because I doubt so many mainstream artists I grew up listening to who are all potentially involved in such activities and it just makes my skin crawl.

 

[Moranga]

Sounds like he was competing in the 'Pissing on Fans' Sunday League with R Kelly.

I wonder who won.

I cannot separate the two at all. For me when an artist creates something, I perceive it as something that is genuinely from their heart and soul. Any that isn't puts me right off. And people that are involved in sexual activities with minors is a complete shut out of my life. Like R Kelly for example, I grew up listening to his music and now I refuse to listen to his music at all.

This is prolly why I rarely listen to music now because I doubt so many mainstream artists I grew up listening to who are all potentially involved in such activities and it just makes my skin crawl.

Same and Hello

 

[QuirkyLemonFlower]

Same and Hello

Hello and welcome to the forum