Arrests at Wall Street Protests | INFJ Forum

Arrests at Wall Street Protests

InvisibleJim

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fucking christ
 
If you don't know whats going on turn off the news ;)
 
Libertyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!

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If you don't know whats going on turn off the news ;)
Yeah, I've been following it for the past few days, but having been at work these past few nights and sleeping during the day I'd fallen behind in what was going on. I can't say I'm surprised. Forcing people into a choral so they can't leave and then macing them seems pretty legal *rolls eyes*
 
LOL some of the cops were looking around like 'WTF? who the fuck just maced them??'

Well obviously excessive force. Mace is only used if it's necessary to control someone. The cops could have arrested those women without spraying them. If someone's kicking and struggling and resisting arrest, that's a more realistic scenario to use pepper spray. And in case you didn't know, pepper spray HURTS LIKE HELL for hours. It fucks up your vision temporarily, and stings your nose and throat (your breathing passages because you inhale it), and makes your skin burn.

People are allowed to protest, but you're not allowed to stand in the middle of traffic holding a sign, or block the sidewalk. Peaceful, non-obstructive protest is OK. But the guise of 'protesting' doesn't allow people to just go anywhere and do anything.
 
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Ah, the good ol' US of A. Not surprising that there's a disconnect between politicians, decision-makers, and the populace (democracy? *chuckles*) - those that are in power have monetary wealth and are quite comfortable with that, no matter what protestors do. Great to see people raising their voices, but, as ever, disheartening to see the responses to their actions. Mmm, progress, how tantalizingly elusive.

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Nonsensical rhetoric. If politicians made minimum wage, we'd have very very very shitty politicians, because nobody would want to do it. Also, politicians do not make much, especially considering what they could make in the private sector if they have the ability to get elected into office.
 
Nonsensical rhetoric. If politicians made minimum wage, we'd have very very very shitty politicians, because nobody would want to do it. Also, politicians do not make much, especially considering what they could make in the private sector if they have the ability to get elected into office.

It's supposed to imply that if they actually understood the conditions that people had to live through (which many don't, as many politicians come from wealthy backgrounds and old money that negate the necessity of having an extremely well-paid job - it's the power of the position that draws people), that they would change them because they wouldn't be able to turn a blind eye to those circumstances, because they'd be living them. If politicians were forced to live on minimum wage, minimum wage wouldn't stay as low as it is for long.

Even if it couldn't be made a reality and politicians would never make minimum wage, the primary concept it suggests is that if politicians (and I more so mean the ones that do make a shit ton of money, because there are plenty of them, what with endorsements, campaign donations and the like - it's more than base salary at work here) actually had a greater understanding for and compassion towards their constituents, perhaps there would be some change.

As it is, despite you saying that "politicians do not make much," that is still much, much more than the desperately poor in the United States, and it allows them to live a cushy existence while others who hold down a minimum wage job live on the streets - happens all the time, a minimum wage job is a joke. I'm making $7.40/hr. right now, and yeah, I can get by for the most part, but depending on how many people you have to support and the cost of living where you're at, you could be thoroughly fucked. Couple that with the highly skewed distribution of wealth here in the US and there's no justification for not raising minimum wage and attempting to bring people a little more even with one another. There's enough money to do it, it's just that that money's in the pockets of extremely few people who have no incentive to change anything because they're quite content with their excessive amount of wealth and have no need to worry about the impoverished - they're comfortable where they're at.

So, that graffiti was all about taking a jab at the fact that often decision-makers make poor decisions because they have no compassion for, nor comprehension of what a large portion of the populace is going through (that portion, for instance, being the over 40 million people who live below the poverty line [more than the entire population of Canada, as I'm sure you know], which should be higher, anyway). It's kind of like how just about everyone who wrote legislation regarding abortion was an old, white, Christian male instead of *gasp* a woman, the only person who has the right to make decisions for her body. Politicians often can't make informed decisions, like one regarding wages, because they can't put themselves in the shoes of those who are affected by the decisions they make - if that could be made a reality, at least for a moment so that they could get a taste of what it's like (though even that might not sway them, fucking disgusting greed), maybe, just maybe, something positive could come from it.
 
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I always believed politicians should receive the average national wage.

This seems more sensible than people think.
 
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I always believed politicians should receive the average national wage.

This seems more sensible than people think.

That is more sensible. If a politician is supposed to representing and making decisions for the average citizen, then for their decisions to be the best informed and to be most in line with the needs of these people, then making the average national wage is reasonable. The average national wage (which is skewed and not entirely reliable because of the impressive disparities between the rich and the poor, but still) here is around 3-4x as much as minimum wage, but still brings one closer to the average citizen. I'd hope that the decisions made by someone making that amount of money would be a bit less biased towards the wealthy.

EDIT: To put this in perspective, the top 400 Americans combined make more than bottom 50%. More than just politicians are involved here, but I can assure you they're amongst the top 400. That means that the wealth of 400 people outweighs the wealth of 156,000,000 people. Clearly, those in power aren't all that invested in leveling out the playing field. Yeah, I'd feel a little more comfortable if politicians made closer to the national average, but like I said, I'm not so sure about that national average (it's at least more acceptable than making outlandish sums of money)...
 
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That is more sensible. If a politician is supposed to representing and making decisions for the average citizen, then for their decisions to be the best informed and to be most in line with the needs of these people, then making the average national wage is reasonable. The average national wage (which is skewed and not entirely reliable because of the impressive disparities between the rich and the poor, but still) here is around 3-4x as much as minimum wage, but still brings one closer to the average citizen. I'd hope that the decisions made by someone making that amount of money would be a bit less biased towards the wealthy.

In truth, the wage of the average US citizen - $45k per household - is 'achievable' if a person/couple does life properly rather than becoming a junkie or flunking everything.
 
In truth, the wage of the average US citizen - $45k per household - is 'achievable' if a person/couple does life properly rather than becoming a junkie or flunking everything.

There aren't exactly enough jobs for everyone to achieve that income, and there are also invisible restraints (institutionalized racism, for example) that stand in the way for some. It should be that easy, but it isn't. Plus, why would politicians want to do away with low-paying jobs, ones that could never hit that $45k mark? Someone has to do them, and there's no need to raise wages if someone will be complacent and take the job because there are no better opportunities offered. In a way, division of wealth supports division of labor.

For varying, convoluted reasons, it's really not all that achievable for many. There are plenty of people who work their asses off, certainly don't become a junkie, and still never make as much as they deserve for how much they do. It's just how it is here, sometimes no matter how hard you work or how successful you are. Increasingly, people who once had middle-class jobs are finding themselves on the streets, and it's not for a lack of trying. It'd be nice if all you had to do was "not flunk everything" to make it here, but as I'm sure you're aware, shit's pretty fucked up here in the US.
 
What happened is b.s. We DO have the right to peaceful protest and there is nothing in the video that shows these women were being anything but peaceful. Is there anything more we are not seeing? Cops make mistakes ... often. The amount of mistakes has not changed, technology has.

We are not the land of the free. We understand that in order to have better security, we have to give up freedom.

On a really demented note: I kinda would like to be maced to see if I'd scream like a baby. :D
 

People wouldn't be protesting on Wall Street if the merger of corporations and politics weren't having an effect on the ability of citizens to hold down well-paying jobs and get by.
 
People wouldn't be protesting on Wall Street if the merger of corporations and politics weren't having an effect on the ability of citizens to hold down well-paying jobs and get by.

Call me a skeptic then. I agree with protest and the right to free speech more than people know. I also agree with individual choice. I disagree with the video above, it's distasteful and inappropriate behaviour by the police.

For most people it is a matter of their own individual choice and the opportunity cost they apply to most situations.

I think the average is achievable if you are willing to give up convenience to get it. Most people are more concerned with how many people they can bonk than anything else and then complain that society doesn't pay them for the privilege. Anyone else who does otherwise is labelled 'a slave to the man'; when infact they just do what they want and then end up with the role which fits.

aka. Not my problem, their choices got them where they are today just like my own.
 
Call me a skeptic then. I agree with protest and the right to free speech more than people know. I also agree with individual choice. I disagree with the video above, it's distasteful and inappropriate behaviour by the police.

For most people it is a matter of their own individual choice and the opportunity cost they apply to most situations.

I think the average is achievable if you are willing to give up convenience to get it. Most people are more concerned with how many people they can bonk than anything else and then complain that society doesn't pay them for the privilege. Anyone else who does otherwise is labelled 'a slave to the man'; when infact they just do what they want and then end up with the role which fits.

aka. Not my problem, their choices got them where they are today just like my own.

Truth. One of the issues here is that many complain, but not many act. A good idea is worthless if you keep it to yourself and don't utilize it. They complain, do nothing, and then sit themselves down in front of their TVs for hours on end, effectively distracted and mollified.

This isn't true of everyone, and "average" isn't always achievable, but I agree that personal choice weighs heavily on the matter. It seems like more and more people are becoming dumbed down, becoming stagnant, forgetting the power they have to make a difference and just f'ing do something.

If you want change, it starts with the people - but the people want change, yet do little to achieve it.

I'm often torn between that. I tell myself that those in power have the ability to take lives, and save them, and that when their actions place emphasis on the former they should be rectified - but at the same time, I am dissatisfied with relying on the government. I'm the master of myself and my situation, and it'd be weak and laughable to sit passively and complain that the government's not doing enough when all the while the real power lied in my own hands.

I'm too skeptical, can't ever just accept what I see. Ever searching for knowledge, never finding any that's satisfactory.
 
I am dissatisfied with relying on the government.

America has lost something important. The will to persevere.

Because it has been so long since it has had such a major shock it seems to be paralysed.

Compare it to other western economies and we've been through these kind of events where the only real solution is to roll up your sleeves and do anything whilst languishing with the affects of chronic inflation for about a decade to make things work again. It's been particularly marked in UK every 25 years starting in the great depression.

I hope it regains it's confidence and realises that doing things at the community level which is useful is the nature of economy itself and that this will generate the wealth it needs to come back with gusto and provide.
 
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Because it has been so long since it has had such a major shock it seems to be paralysed.

I have a feeling that this major shock won't be too long in coming. Things can't be sustained as they are indefinitely.

I hope it regains it's confidence and realises that doing things at the community level which is useful is the nature of economy itself and that this will generate the wealth it needs to come back with gusto and provide.

As do I. That's the problem, though, this emphasis on "rugged individualism" at the expense of the community. We've turned a blind eye to the community around us and our fellow humans, consequently allowing conditions to persist and worsen more than they ever should have.

I'm constantly trying to fathom why people can't see that by improving the situations of others their efforts would come back to them and benefit their own existence, creating a mutual system of support.