are you against the military action against Syria | INFJ Forum

are you against the military action against Syria

Discussion in 'Relationships and Sociology' started by Bikerdelic, Sep 11, 2013.

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  1. Bikerdelic

    Bikerdelic Spammer

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    Well I am against military action because it seems that we would be helping the same Islamist terrorist that our troops have been fighting in Afghanistan and on the borders of Pakistan. Its just bad luck that the rebels have picked friends such as Al Queda (sorry can't spell Arabic words). Also it could start a large conflict in the middle east that could lead to a full scale all out war, leading quite possibly to a nuclear exchange in the worst scenario.
    But what's your take on the situation.

    I have included a poem by Lew Welch to make some folk think before answering.
     
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  2. sprinkles

    sprinkles Well-known member

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    I'm against it as with all kinds of warfare but I will not tell them to prevent it, because it isn't my place to chase around the childlike humans and make them behave.
     
  3. Stu

    Stu Pre-Pottery B Neolithocrat
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    I am for the removal of Chemical Weapons from Syria, if that can not be done then I am for punitive, lethal action against those who deployed them. I am for an open airing of the evidence that they were used.
     
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  4. slant

    slant Fairly Tragic

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    YES, I AM AGAINST MILITARY ACTION IN SYRIA
     
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  5. MindYourHead

    MindYourHead Courage doesn't always roar.

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    Totally against it.

    Besides, it has been handled so poorly up to this point that the threat means nothing now.
    I didn't watch Obama's speech last night because there is nothing he could say, or lecture me about how I should think, that would change my mind.
     
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  6. Stu

    Stu Pre-Pottery B Neolithocrat
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    I felt the same way about Reagan, and both Bushes, but I listened to them each time. I could not get over how Grenada was acceptable, did not agree with the invasion of occupied Kuwait. Never understood the logic behind letting Saddam use Chemical weapons against Iran, was sickened by the invasion of Iraq especially since it wrecked the military effort in Afghanistan.

    Assad can not be allowed to deploy these weapons. I am amazed at how often I am in the minority in my country.
     
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  7. this is only temporary

    this is only temporary Community Member

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    But, Stu, I thought you were a pacifist? Why have you changed now? I really am curious to know. The reasons I am opposed to military action in Syria are

    1. I don't think bombing Syria a few times would work. It's not like they'd be surprised at this point, and there will be civilian casualties. You don't throw a couple of rocks at a beehive to eradicate it, that just pisses them off and makes them swarm. I get the distinct impression we'd bomb a couple of sites (which have probably already been cleared of weaponry) and then have a swarming beehive with access to chemical weapons. Not a good idea as far as I can tell. Wipe them out completely or don't piss them off in the first place.
    2. I don't believe we're not going to be dragged into some long-ass regime change thing; based on previous experience in the region. Civil war is not going to go away after military action.
    3. Also, it seems to me they ALL hate us in the middle east already, and military action would simply mean helping some questionable group who already hates us, and will be bombing us in a decade or so as a way of expressing their thanks. If I believed this would make the US safer and Syria more stable I might be more supportive, but I don't necessarily believe those things.
    4. I do think having several aircraft carriers parked at your front door might encourage a diplomatic solution. I hope this is the case.


    -- And out of curiousity, you do believe Assad really did deploy the chemical weapons? Half the nutjobs on the internet think it was a hoax to drag us into Syria. What if they're right?
    (I can't believe I just wrote that... must be the mind control kicking in)
     
    #7 this is only temporary, Sep 11, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
  8. Stu

    Stu Pre-Pottery B Neolithocrat
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    I do believe it, they built their army for the sole purpose of keeping themselves in power.

    I am not a pacifist. I also tend to believe that what gets reported of the events of the world is usually based in some fact. I agree that those facts are often not clear or deliberately manipulated. The US has a very mixed history when it comes to military engagements. Just a brief look at them shows that our economic interest, or more precisely the economic interest of the upper, ruling class, trumps just about everything else.

    That said, we do and can continue to do a great deal of good in the world simply by keeping many places in the world going into complete chaos.

    Syria is a horror show. It can and probably will get worse. I would actually support a Military campaign to seize the Syrian Army's chemical weapon's stock(or a large chunk of it) simply because if that Army were to falter and loose control of them, I have no doubt that those weapons would be used on Americans.

    That is actually the best argument for doing nothing or in fact helping the Syrian Government win its war.

    But Fuck that! Anyone using chemical weapons in any capacity should do so knowing that the US Military is going to Kill them .

    We should have done so with Iraq in the Nineties but our government, which was being led by the hero of the GOP not only let it go but condoned it. ( I did not like that)

    There are a relatively few people in command of the Syrian forces. Even a small scale strike would kill an uncomfortable percentage of them. Not to mention how damaging their air fields would put a real logistical hurt on them.

    At this point a partitioning of Syria is the best chance of reducing the bloodshed, those running the Syrian military won't agree to that as long as they think they can wipe out any opposition.

    We hate them back.

    I agree, and the Syrians do seem to be reacting diplomatically to the pressure that the US Navy is putting on them.
     
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    #8 Stu, Sep 11, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
  9. Flavus Aquila

    Flavus Aquila Finding My Place in the Sun
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    Against it, only because Assad is as good a leader as that country can get.
    Topple him and you will have anarchy.
     
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  10. this is only temporary

    this is only temporary Community Member

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    Wait, what, Stu? You disagree that having aircraft carriers parked at your front door is encouraging a diplomatic solution? But you agree that Syrians are reacting diplomatically? Huh?

    Whoever's in charge of the Syrian military is probably in hiding by now. I bet there will be a few innocent "human shields" killed in any airstrikes, however, and "baby milk factories" will naturally be destroyed by the evil Americans. (Remember that? From Iraq? The well-publicized decimation of the so-called "baby formula" plants? Because nobody in Iraq breastfeeds I suppose.)

    All this will happen, I suspect, and it will be used to fuel extremism in the region, which will destabilize it further and cause more bloodshed. Syria is not that terribly different from Iraq. It seems overly optimistic at best to think we can stop civil war with bombing. (I have to admit it would be enjoyable destroying their capacity to use chemical weapons, aircraft or anything like that.)

    So we should bomb them to prove it? :S I don't think we hate them, we just would prefer not to be involved in their politics or religion and don't want US soldiers dying futilely for Syrians' almost certainly unappreciative sakes. At least that's how I feel about it.

    We will see what happens.
     
    #10 this is only temporary, Sep 11, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
  11. Stu

    Stu Pre-Pottery B Neolithocrat
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    oops, no I agree, I misread your post as I was so excited that someone (@this is only temporary ) was interested in my opinion
     
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  12. MindYourHead

    MindYourHead Courage doesn't always roar.

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    I think it would have been better for President Obama to have said nothing, waited to confirm who did what, then come on TV after the fact to tell the public we sent missiles in.
    Just as Reagan did when we bombed Libya in 1986 in response to the Berlin discotheque bombing.
    Then warn them if it continues, we will do it again.

    I still would be against it.
     
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    #12 MindYourHead, Sep 11, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  13. Sriracha

    Sriracha Not here.
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  14. OP
    Bikerdelic

    Bikerdelic Spammer

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    Well I think you all have very good arguments against any military action against Syria. Personally these factions have to learn to talk with one another sooner or later, and if we can bring about a ceasefire it could give a chance for intense diplomacy to work. Can you image the environmental disaster even a conventional war would inflict upon our climate, as I remember too well seeing those oil fields in flames in Iraq, not to mention a small nuclear exchange or further use of chemical weapons.
    It is also a very sad but true fact of life that there are many people dying through genocide, civil wars and uprisings around the world, but we can't possibly be the police force of the world, as that wouldn't be practical or democratic.
    It is through ethical foreign policies, that we can bring about positive democratic change, by not supporting bad and corrupt regimes in the first place (Prevention always being better than any cure).
    It is plain to see that every conflict can be traced back to dubious American and British foreign policies as well as some very shady arms deals, business contracts and relationships (Saudi's).
    So we need ethical foreign policies and not War to solve and heal the worlds divided communities.
     
  15. just me

    just me GONE

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    Up until now, now, and hopefully in the present: against it. Least said the better.
     
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  16. sentientsixpence

    sentientsixpence fail daemon

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  17. Eventhorizon

    Eventhorizon Permanently relocated
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    Yes. America isnt the world police. We stay out of world affairs unless our interests are attacked. If our interests are attacked, we level whatever did it.
     
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  18. NYLilac

    NYLilac Community Member

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    I'm with Slant, Sriracha, and Eventhorizon. No war with Syria. We need to stay out of matters that are none of our business.
     
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  19. Pin

    Pin "Magnificent Bastard" / Ren's Counterpart

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    Syria is our business, anywhere democracy is under attack is the business of the United States.
     
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